God "Could Have" Protected Kids, Chose Not To....SMFH

[Gil Dobie]

A blanket statement without evidence, does not make it a commandment.

1 Samuel 15:3. Read it.

Where does it say this is a commandment and where does it say this is not a sin?

[Gil Dobie]

I know the commandments and I have read the black and white. What people put between the lines is their stuff. Can you show me the commandment that states it's okay to kill men, women and children of another tribe or race and it's not a sin?

You're an idiot.

You don't have a Mama Cat to help you with your reply.

[death dealer]

OK. Let's do verses 1-3.

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

God commands him through his mouthpiece Samuel to kill the Amalekites. When he does not do it the way he's commanded to, God rejects him and takes away his divine annointment as king. Commandment, disobedience, punishment. Try as much as you want, this is what it says. Try as you might to say it is taken out of context, or whatever, the fact is that the Amalekites offended Yahweh, he ordered his annointed King to wipe them out, when the King disobeyed, he was demoted, repalced, and ultimately allowed to be killed in battle.

[bluehenbillk]

Our priest talked about this subject yesterday, on why does God allow these things to happen.

Does this story ring a bell: Jesus on the cross, "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?". Even his own son asked the same question.

But yea, it has everything to do with more or less religion in school...

[biobengal]

The Biblical action scenes are quite clear on this.

A blanket statement without evidence, does not make it a commandment.

Ex 12:14-15: Moses killed an Egyptian for HITTING another man
Ex 21:20-21: It's cool to kill slaves... provided they die slowly
Num 15:32-36: It's cool to kill someone gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
Deut 2:31-34; Num 31:12-18: Kill all adults of captured city... but not the virgins.
Ex 22:18: Witches? Who needs em'?

Of course, many more examples of seemingly arbitrary killing can be found in the Bible. However, these examples would be considered justified killings and not "murder", which is probably a better term. Most of the sanctioned killing is perpetrated against "others", those of another race, tribe, etc.. This is clearly a codification of evolutionary principles.

[D1B]

You're an idiot.

You don't have a Mama Cat to help you with your reply.

Jeeze, Dildobie, you've surprised me with your breathtaking stupidity.

When it comes to religion, especially your Christianity, just shut up and take your beating like a man. Nothing in it is factual, provable, logical or consistent. You believe it, you were born into it, your father and terrified mother forced you to believe under threat of punishment and here you are, trying to defend marble tablets and the ridiculous comic book epic that is your bible.

You're a victim and we're here to help you.

[D1B]

Our priest talked about this subject yesterday, on why does God allow these things to happen.

Does this story ring a bell: Jesus on the cross, "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?". Even his own son asked the same question.

But yea, it has everything to do with more or less religion in school...

Your priest is either a charlatan or a moron.

[JoltinJoe]

OK. Let's do verses 1-3.

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

God commands him through his mouthpiece Samuel to kill the Amalekites. When he does not do it the way he's commanded to, God rejects him and takes away his divine annointment as king. Commandment, disobedience, punishment. Try as much as you want, this is what it says. Try as you might to say it is taken out of context, or whatever, the fact is that the Amalekites offended Yahweh, he ordered his annointed King to wipe them out, when the King disobeyed, he was demoted, repalced, and ultimately allowed to be killed in battle.

Yes, and the Amalekites were devoted to destroying Israel because of their faith in Yahweh. The point of this story in that, by second guessing God's direction, Saul elevated his wisdom to that over God. We have finite wisdom and understanding, and we should not second guess what God directs because we do not understand why. Also, you have to understand that this story is told, after the passage of time, as an explanation as to why hatred of the Jews continues to exist in the world and is directed toward Israel. The Amalekites are understood to be the group from which dislike of the Jews started; God had directed that this prejudice be destroyed, but the Jews continue to suffer because they disobeyed this command.

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

[biobengal]

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

Sadly, this is not the predominant view of Biblical teaching in many Christian circles..... IMO.

[D1B]

OK. Let's do verses 1-3.

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

God commands him through his mouthpiece Samuel to kill the Amalekites. When he does not do it the way he's commanded to, God rejects him and takes away his divine annointment as king. Commandment, disobedience, punishment. Try as much as you want, this is what it says. Try as you might to say it is taken out of context, or whatever, the fact is that the Amalekites offended Yahweh, he ordered his annointed King to wipe them out, when the King disobeyed, he was demoted, repalced, and ultimately allowed to be killed in battle.

Yes, and the Amalekites were devoted to destroying Israel because of their faith in Yahweh. The point of this story in that, by second guessing God's direction, Saul elevated his wisdom to that over God. We have finite wisdom and understanding, and we should not second guess what God directs because we do not understand why. Also, you have to understand that this story is told, after the passage of time, as an explanation as to why hatred of the Jews continues to exist in the world and is directed toward Israel. The Amalekites are understood to be the group from which dislike of the Jews started; God had directed that this prejudice be destroyed, but the Jews continue to suffer because they disobeyed this command.

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

What exactly is "evolving" as far as a relationship with god? Here, someone second guesses him and he's dead. God is pretty consistent here and this does not constitute a healthy relationship


Your god is an all-knowing, violent, homicidal maniac who committed the most barbaric atrocities to his creations, including to his own son or clone. Just read the bible.

[D1B]

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

Sadly, this is not the predominant view of Biblical teaching in many Christian circles..... IMO.

It's also a cop-out apologists knee jerk when cornered about the true nature of their god, as revealed in his own words in the bible.

[JoltinJoe]

Sadly, this is not the predominant view of Biblical teaching in many Christian circles..... IMO.

It's also a cop-out apologists knee jerk when cornered about the true nature of their god, as revealed in his own words in the bible.

You spent how many years in Catholic schools and you never learned this?

[D1B]

It's also a cop-out apologists knee jerk when cornered about the true nature of their god, as revealed in his own words in the bible.

You spent how many years in Catholic schools and you never learned this?

Uhh, its a recent phenomenon whose impetus has nothing to with fostering positive relationships with god and everything to do with secularist, athesists, humanists, scientists and free thinkers exposing the countless contradictions, errors and tales of brutality and murder in the bible and the church to an increasingly informed and thus skeptical swarm, and forcing the church to change its teachings and offer a more benevolent and anti-biblical rendition of their god.

They should call him God 2.0. Here's a new logo for you:

[bluehenbillk]

I'm no Biblical scholar but I wanted to pose this question yesterday.

The subject about why does God allow these things to happen...

Well according to the Bible, God himself did these kind of things at least 3 times I can remember:

-The Noah's Ark story - you assume tens of thousands drowned...
-Sodom & Gomorrah(sp) - burnt those towns and their inhabitants to the ground
-Passover - Egypt's 1st born son's dying

If there was a point to those, I'm finding the message in a massacred 1st grade Connecticut class muffled....

[JoltinJoe]

Uhh, its a recent phenomenon whose impetus has nothing to with fostering positive relationships with god and everything to do with secularist, athesists, humanists, scientists and free thinkers exposing the countless contradictions, errors and tales of brutality and murder in the bible and the church to an increasingly informed and thus skeptical swarm, and forcing the church to change its teachings and offer a more benevolent and anti-biblical rendition of their god.

Yes, recent development, if you count Augustine as "recent."

It's recent to you, though.

[D1B]

Uhh, its a recent phenomenon whose impetus has nothing to with fostering positive relationships with god and everything to do with secularist, athesists, humanists, scientists and free thinkers exposing the countless contradictions, errors and tales of brutality and murder in the bible and the church to an increasingly informed and thus skeptical swarm, and forcing the church to change its teachings and offer a more benevolent and anti-biblical rendition of their god.

Yes, recent development, if you count Augustine as "recent."

It's recent to you, though.

Yeah, words, Joe. But in application, very recent.

Atheists saved your god, ironically, for now.

[D1B]

I'm no Biblical scholar but I wanted to pose this question yesterday.

The subject about why does God allow these things to happen...

Well according to the Bible, God himself did these kind of things at least 3 times I can remember:

-The Noah's Ark story - you assume tens of thousands drowned...
-Sodom & Gomorrah(sp) - burnt those towns and their inhabitants to the ground
-Passover - Egypt's 1st born son's dying

If there was a point to those, I'm finding the message in a massacred 1st grade Connecticut class muffled....

It's simple, Bill. God, as conceived or better yet, contrived by the christians, does not exist.

The christian god is both impossible and if you have to believe - wholly unworthy of worship.

[Gil Dobie]

OK. Let's do verses 1-3.

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

God commands him through his mouthpiece Samuel to kill the Amalekites. When he does not do it the way he's commanded to, God rejects him and takes away his divine annointment as king. Commandment, disobedience, punishment. Try as much as you want, this is what it says. Try as you might to say it is taken out of context, or whatever, the fact is that the Amalekites offended Yahweh, he ordered his annointed King to wipe them out, when the King disobeyed, he was demoted, repalced, and ultimately allowed to be killed in battle.

Yes, and the Amalekites were devoted to destroying Israel because of their faith in Yahweh. The point of this story in that, by second guessing God's direction, Saul elevated his wisdom to that over God. We have finite wisdom and understanding, and we should not second guess what God directs because we do not understand why. Also, you have to understand that this story is told, after the passage of time, as an explanation as to why hatred of the Jews continues to exist in the world and is directed toward Israel. The Amalekites are understood to be the group from which dislike of the Jews started; God had directed that this prejudice be destroyed, but the Jews continue to suffer because they disobeyed this command.

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

Good explanation!

[Gil Dobie]

A blanket statement without evidence, does not make it a commandment.

Ex 12:14-15: Moses killed an Egyptian for HITTING another man
Ex 21:20-21: It's cool to kill slaves... provided they die slowly
Num 15:32-36: It's cool to kill someone gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
Deut 2:31-34; Num 31:12-18: Kill all adults of captured city... but not the virgins.
Ex 22:18: Witches? Who needs em'?

Of course, many more examples of seemingly arbitrary killing can be found in the Bible. However, these examples would be considered justified killings and not "murder", which is probably a better term. Most of the sanctioned killing is perpetrated against "others", those of another race, tribe, etc.. This is clearly a codification of evolutionary principles.

The way I see it, is killing is against one of the 10 commandments, which I see as the word of God. The stories in the Bible were written at another time in history with a different perspective on life. There writers were human and interjected their own bias. I don't see God as a vengeful God, but as a loving God with 10 commandments to live by. Sin is going against these commandments. If I break these commandments, God forgives.

[D1B]

Yes, and the Amalekites were devoted to destroying Israel because of their faith in Yahweh. The point of this story in that, by second guessing God's direction, Saul elevated his wisdom to that over God. We have finite wisdom and understanding, and we should not second guess what God directs because we do not understand why. Also, you have to understand that this story is told, after the passage of time, as an explanation as to why hatred of the Jews continues to exist in the world and is directed toward Israel. The Amalekites are understood to be the group from which dislike of the Jews started; God had directed that this prejudice be destroyed, but the Jews continue to suffer because they disobeyed this command.

Again, no one story in the Bible represents the entirety of the Bible. It must be assessed in totality, and it should be understood of as the story of an evolving and deepening relationship between man and God, a series of revelation, discernment, and understanding. Like any relationship, the relationship between man and God must continue to grow in knowledge and understanding. If the relationship between a married couple is stagnant, it will eventually dissolve.

Good explanation!

It's a rationalization, Gil.

[D1B]

Ex 12:14-15: Moses killed an Egyptian for HITTING another man
Ex 21:20-21: It's cool to kill slaves... provided they die slowly
Num 15:32-36: It's cool to kill someone gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
Deut 2:31-34; Num 31:12-18: Kill all adults of captured city... but not the virgins.
Ex 22:18: Witches? Who needs em'?

Of course, many more examples of seemingly arbitrary killing can be found in the Bible. However, these examples would be considered justified killings and not "murder", which is probably a better term. Most of the sanctioned killing is perpetrated against "others", those of another race, tribe, etc.. This is clearly a codification of evolutionary principles.

The way I see it, is killing is against one of the 10 commandments, which I see as the word of God. The stories in the Bible were written at another time in history with a different perspective on life. There writers were human and interjected their own bias. I don't see God as a vengeful God, but as a loving God with 10 commandments to live by. Sin is going against these commandments. If I break these commandments, God forgives.

Really, Gil? The Ten Commandments? There are countless more important and better (for humans) edicts put forth by deists, non christians, atheists and free thinkers. MOF, here a list of 10 commandments infinitely better than your god's version. Imagine if we follow these.....

1.Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
2.Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3.Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4.Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5.Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. (“Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”)
6.Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act accordingly.
7.Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8.Turn off that cell phone.
9.Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repression.
10.Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
Christopher Hitchens

Another question, Gil - Why did god wait some 100,000 years to give us these "pearls of wisdom"? He could have save millions of lives and much hardship if he did.

If you see god as a loving god then you do not beleive in the christian god.

Gil, what religion are you?

[Gil Dobie]

The way I see it, is killing is against one of the 10 commandments, which I see as the word of God. The stories in the Bible were written at another time in history with a different perspective on life. There writers were human and interjected their own bias. I don't see God as a vengeful God, but as a loving God with 10 commandments to live by. Sin is going against these commandments. If I break these commandments, God forgives.

Really, Gil? The Ten Commandments? There are countless more important and better (for humans) edicts put forth by deists, non christians, atheists and free thinkers. MOF, here a list of 10 commandments infinitely better than your god's version. Imagine if we follow these.....

1.Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
2.Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3.Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4.Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5.Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. (“Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”)
6.Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act accordingly.
7.Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8.Turn off that cell phone.
9.Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repression.
10.Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
Christopher Hitchens

Another question, Gil - Why did god wait some 100,000 years to give us these "pearls of wisdom"? He could have save millions of lives and much hardship if he did.

If you see god as a loving god then you do not beleive in the christian god.

Gil, what religion are you?

The Christian God is a loving God, but I can see why you focus on the negative.

[D1B]

Really, Gil? The Ten Commandments? There are countless more important and better (for humans) edicts put forth by deists, non christians, atheists and free thinkers. MOF, here a list of 10 commandments infinitely better than your god's version. Imagine if we follow these.....

1.Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
2.Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3.Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4.Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5.Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. (“Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”)
6.Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act accordingly.
7.Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8.Turn off that cell phone.
9.Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repression.
10.Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
Christopher Hitchens

Another question, Gil - Why did god wait some 100,000 years to give us these "pearls of wisdom"? He could have save millions of lives and much hardship if he did.

If you see god as a loving god then you do not beleive in the christian god.

Gil, what religion are you?

The Christian God is a loving God, but I can see why you focus on the negative.

Soooo, one should just disregard all the murder, infanticide, racism, genocide, forced slavery, rape and torture commanded by the christiain god against mostly innocent people for simply not kissing his ass?

[Ibanez]

The way I see it, is killing is against one of the 10 commandments, which I see as the word of God. The stories in the Bible were written at another time in history with a different perspective on life. There writers were human and interjected their own bias. I don't see God as a vengeful God, but as a loving God with 10 commandments to live by. Sin is going against these commandments. If I break these commandments, God forgives.

Really, Gil? The Ten Commandments? There are countless more important and better (for humans) edicts put forth by deists, non christians, atheists and free thinkers. MOF, here a list of 10 commandments infinitely better than your god's version. Imagine if we follow these.....

1.Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
2.Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3.Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4.Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5.Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. (“Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”)
6.Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act accordingly.
7.Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8.Turn off that cell phone.
9.Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repression.
10.Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
Christopher Hitchens

Another question, Gil - Why did god wait some 100,000 years to give us these "pearls of wisdom"? He could have save millions of lives and much hardship if he did.

If you see god as a loving god then you do not beleive in the christian god.

Gil, what religion are you?

I see a Supreme being that has no interaction with the earth. Man, throughout the ages, attributed unexplained events to this God as either punishment or reward for their behavior. We know that what was a flood sent to destroy the word, was really a natural flooding of a geographic era. We know now that what was plagues sent to persuade the Pharaoh to free the Jews, was really a natural phenomena has occurred countless times since this supposed event. God, Allah, Tom Cruise, whatever you call your deity, gave us a world. He gave us reasoning. It is up to us to use that reasoning and understand nature and to cooperate with nature.

Deism is the way to go.

[D1B]

Really, Gil? The Ten Commandments? There are countless more important and better (for humans) edicts put forth by deists, non christians, atheists and free thinkers. MOF, here a list of 10 commandments infinitely better than your god's version. Imagine if we follow these.....

1.Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
2.Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3.Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4.Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5.Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. (“Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”)
6.Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act accordingly.
7.Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8.Turn off that cell phone.
9.Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repression.
10.Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
Christopher Hitchens

Another question, Gil - Why did god wait some 100,000 years to give us these "pearls of wisdom"? He could have save millions of lives and much hardship if he did.

If you see god as a loving god then you do not beleive in the christian god.

Gil, what religion are you?

I see a Supreme being that has no interaction with the earth. Man, throughout the ages, attributed unexplained events to this God as either punishment or reward for their behavior. We know that what was a flood sent to destroy the word, was really a natural flooding of a geographic era. We know now that what was plagues sent to persuade the Pharaoh to free the Jews, was really a natural phenomena has occurred countless times since this supposed event. God, Allah, Tom Cruise, whatever you call your deity, gave us a world. He gave us reasoning. It is up to us to use that reasoning and understand nature and to cooperate with nature.

Deism is the way to go.

I too believe in a life force or higher power.

The christian conception of god however is impossible and the religion/political system created around this god is an unfortunate but dominant myth that has kept man in chains for centuries.