SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 1:47 pm
GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 02, 2025 3:03 pm
I'm not overlooking it all. Of course we are aiding the Ukranians, none of that is a secret. We are literally publicizing what we are giving them and what those things can do. But again, Russia invaded Ukraine, even though Ukraine posed no threat to Russia. That's the distinction you've always overlooked. Russia was never threatened by Ukraine. This conflict is solely the responsibility of the Russian government.
As for US naval carriers staying out of the Red Sea, so? It's an evolvement of war. Carriers are pretty big and would be a big target in the somewhat restricted Red Sea area. And they don't need to be there, in the Red Sea, to exercise air superiority in that space. We're able to accomplish that without putting the ship there directly.
You keep skipping the part where Ukraine was killing its own citizens and asked for protection and hence why Russia now has this listed as protection from terrorism. Your version is revisionist history.
You do know the aircraft carrier lost an F18 and a tug because they couldn't defend against the Houthis. Evasive maneuvers cause both to pitch off the side. Not to mention the destruction of around 10-15 MQ9 Reapers. Don't the Houthis live in huts?
My point being the US has set a precedent they will regret. You wait until Russia or China supplies someone like Iran with higher technology than they already have, use their ISR to program that technology to strike and then simply say, "we didn't push the button, we're innocent". But you just keep hand waving it away.
You seem to be skipping the part that Russia, in 2014, did a land grab and militarily took the Crimean peninsula away from Ukraine. You also seem to be skipping the part that Russia had been sending armed mercenaries into eastern Ukraine since 2014 prior to formally invading to destabilize the region. Ukraine defending its territory from Russian-financed troops doesn't rise to the level of terrorism on Ukraine's part. The irony is, Russia was far more guilty of that charge based on all its subversive efforts. And beyond all of this, you're skipping the part that Ukraine has never been a threat to Russia - there was absolutely nothing for Russia to fear from Ukraine.
As for the US Navy losing an F18 and a forklift, that's on us. Sure, the ship was probably taking a sudden evasive maneuver, but it's a warship and it should be better capable of engaging an enemy without dropping a plane and a piece of equipment while also putting real lives at risk as a result. We need to be better prepared and better trained for these things. We already canned the captain of a carrier earlier in the year for colliding with a merchant ship. If we need to keep working through the officer ranks to find good leaders then we should.
But that ties into the other thing - Russia and China have already been supplying these countries with weapons to fire at us for years. Where do you think the Houthis get their money and technology? From Iran. And where does Iran get it? From Russia and China. Your clutching your pearls worried about what could be after Ukraine's attack ignores that for at least two decades, if not more, Russia and China have already been doing what you say we should be fearful of now. The precedent was set a long time ago.
