Trump is a Democrat Plant

[kalm]

How many of these "outcomes" are obesity-related maladies and stats without any standard for measurement (e.g. infant mortality)? That's mostly what I see when "outcomes" are cited.

Uh, isn't "baby died" a standard of measurement? You're missing forest for the trees here. You may not be able to get all scientifically exact but outcomes are at least no worse in other OECD countries and for way less cost. And despite the claims of bureaucratic bullshit and time wasting in the socialized system, we have our own inefficiencies...

[CID1990]

That's because ALL outcomes are included- which means the cash med system that the wealthy use is included

Every country - EVERY country that has socialized medicine has two systems. One for people who can pay outright (a very good one) and then the government one for everybody else

We will be there in a very short time, obamacare will be to blame, and you'll be moaning about it as an extension of your "big bad money" schtick

So........they have socialized basic plans and cadillac plans and their outcomes are equal, sometimes better, and at way less expense than our system?

Cool. Perhaps we should try that.

I just feel sorry that Europeans don't allow rich folks.

socialized medicine.. single payer...

sounds like a not-so-moderate position you're shilling for there, Bernie

[kalm]

So........they have socialized basic plans and cadillac plans and their outcomes are equal, sometimes better, and at way less expense than our system?

Cool. Perhaps we should try that.

I just feel sorry that Europeans don't allow rich folks.

socialized medicine.. single payer...

sounds like a not-so-moderate position you're shilling for there, Bernie

I've always liked the idea of single payer. Keep the providers and manufacturers private, but remove the profit motive from insurance. Not exactly a radical concept except for those who keep a copy of "The Virtue of Selfishness" on their night stand.

[CID1990]

socialized medicine.. single payer...

sounds like a not-so-moderate position you're shilling for there, Bernie

I've always liked the idea of single payer. Keep the providers and manufacturers private, but remove the profit motive from insurance. Not exactly a radical concept except for those who keep a copy of "The Virtue of Selfishness" on their night stand.

i didn't say it was radical, klam - you think that just because some far left progressive ideas have become more mainstream (mainly through the ramrod method) that they are somehow now moderate

they are not

socialized medicine, single payer - they are on the same end of the political spectrum as they have always been

[kalm]

I've always liked the idea of single payer. Keep the providers and manufacturers private, but remove the profit motive from insurance. Not exactly a radical concept except for those who keep a copy of "The Virtue of Selfishness" on their night stand.

i didn't say it was radical, klam - you think that just because some far left progressive ideas have become more mainstream (mainly through the ramrod method) that they are somehow now moderate

they are not

socialized medicine, single payer - they are on the same end of the political spectrum as they have always been

You seem to think it's more important which side of the spectrum they come from than whether they're beneficial. Of course me, being the non-partisan centrist that I am could care less.

They're mainstream, not radical, but not moderate. Gotcha...

[Baldy]

You seem to think it's more important which side of the spectrum they come from than whether they're beneficial. Of course me, being the non-partisan centrist that I am could care less.

They're mainstream, not radical, but not moderate. Gotcha...

[CID1990]

i didn't say it was radical, klam - you think that just because some far left progressive ideas have become more mainstream (mainly through the ramrod method) that they are somehow now moderate

they are not

socialized medicine, single payer - they are on the same end of the political spectrum as they have always been

You seem to think it's more important which side of the spectrum they come from than whether they're beneficial. Of course me, being the non-partisan centrist that I am could care less.

They're mainstream, not radical, but not moderate. Gotcha...

Socialized medicine is hardly "beneficial", unless high wait times for routine services, the government-doctor relationship out weighing the patient-doctor relationship, the two-tiered system for haves and have nots, and forcing good doctors out of primary care to be "beneficial"

Socialized medicine is at the disproportionate expense to the middle class even in countries where it works the best. The only "benefit" in the UK and Canada is it has forced malpractice lawyers back into the divorce business

It is a populist left wing concoction that has merely traded one set of problems for an even worse set

But I don't have to tell a realistic, thoughtful centrist like you - you already know it in spite of all the duck quacking you do

[kalm]

You seem to think it's more important which side of the spectrum they come from than whether they're beneficial. Of course me, being the non-partisan centrist that I am could care less.

They're mainstream, not radical, but not moderate. Gotcha...

Socialized medicine is hardly "beneficial", unless high wait times for routine services, the government-doctor relationship out weighing the patient-doctor relationship, the two-tiered system for haves and have nots, and forcing good doctors out of primary care to be "beneficial"

Socialized medicine is at the disproportionate expense to the middle class even in countries where it works the best. The only "benefit" in the UK and Canada is it has forced malpractice lawyers back into the divorce business

It is a populist left wing concoction that has merely traded one set of problems for an even worse set

But I don't have to tell a realistic, thoughtful centrist like you - you already know it in spite of all the duck quacking you do

Like I said, I'm open minded to both socialized and market-based solutions. I also pointed out the attraction of a system wher providers, suppliers, and manufacturers are private but insurance becomes non-profit (some of the more innovative and cost saving companies already are).

The amount saved by removing the profit motive and inefficiencies in juggling multiple systems alone would save billions.

You, on the other hand freak out at anything close to considering non-profit. EEEEEAAAAK!!! SOCIALISM!!!!

That's why I'm a centrist and you are not.

[Chizzang]

Well thank goodness Scott Walker has a plan
after he becomes President
and repeals the affordable Care Act
we'll all be far better off I'm sure

[CID1990]

Socialized medicine is hardly "beneficial", unless high wait times for routine services, the government-doctor relationship out weighing the patient-doctor relationship, the two-tiered system for haves and have nots, and forcing good doctors out of primary care to be "beneficial"

Socialized medicine is at the disproportionate expense to the middle class even in countries where it works the best. The only "benefit" in the UK and Canada is it has forced malpractice lawyers back into the divorce business

It is a populist left wing concoction that has merely traded one set of problems for an even worse set

But I don't have to tell a realistic, thoughtful centrist like you - you already know it in spite of all the duck quacking you do

Like I said, I'm open minded to both socialized and market-based solutions. I also pointed out the attraction of a system wher providers, suppliers, and manufacturers are private but insurance becomes non-profit (some of the more innovative and cost saving companies already are).

The amount saved by removing the profit motive and inefficiencies in juggling multiple systems alone would save billions.

You, on the other hand freak out at anything close to considering non-profit. EEEEEAAAAK!!! SOCIALISM!!!!

That's why I'm a centrist and you are not.

here's news flash for you klam - "removing the profit motive" isnt just socialism in name only

it is also proven to be the pathway to government dysfunction

we already have the model you want, mr centrist - its called the VA

it works so well you want to make it universal?

i am not left or right on this issue. I am for what works- and what we have now is a goat rope

[Wedgebuster]

socialized medicine.. single payer...

sounds like a not-so-moderate position you're shilling for there, Bernie

I've always liked the idea of single payer. Keep the providers and manufacturers private, but remove the profit motive from insurance. Not exactly a radical concept except for those who keep a copy of "The Virtue of Selfishness" on their night stand.

Already have it, it is called "Medicare", and those who have made the age, seem to like it.

[BDKJMU]

I've always liked the idea of single payer. Keep the providers and manufacturers private, but remove the profit motive from insurance. Not exactly a radical concept except for those who keep a copy of "The Virtue of Selfishness" on their night stand.

Already have it, it is called "Medicare", and those who have made the age, seem to like it.

No we already have it as has already been pointed out- the VA, and its a giant cluster fuck.

[kalm]

Like I said, I'm open minded to both socialized and market-based solutions. I also pointed out the attraction of a system wher providers, suppliers, and manufacturers are private but insurance becomes non-profit (some of the more innovative and cost saving companies already are).

The amount saved by removing the profit motive and inefficiencies in juggling multiple systems alone would save billions.

You, on the other hand freak out at anything close to considering non-profit. EEEEEAAAAK!!! SOCIALISM!!!!

That's why I'm a centrist and you are not.

here's news flash for you klam - "removing the profit motive" isnt just socialism in name only

it is also proven to be the pathway to government dysfunction

we already have the model you want, mr centrist - its called the VA

it works so well you want to make it universal?

i am not left or right on this issue. I am for what works- and what we have now is a goat rope

Except in the kalmunist plan, as explained to you already, the providers would still be private.

And I agree on the goat rope and concerns over government bureaucracy. I'm just still able to breath through my nose while discussing it.