A Heritage of Hatred and White Supremecy

[Pwns]

Lincoln himself said if he could preserve the union without ending slavery he would. The secession caused the war and slavery caused the secession. But if secession hadn't occurred over slavery it could've occurred over some other kind of issue further down the road.

[Ibanez]

Lincoln himself said if he could preserve the union without ending slavery he would. The secession caused the war and slavery caused the secession. But if secession hadn't occurred over slavery it could've occurred over some other kind of issue further down the road.

Taxes and proportional spending.

[dbackjon]

The terrorist attack in Charleston has once again brought up the debate over the meaning of the battle flag, and the reasons for the Civil War.

We get the same tired but false arguments that the war was not about slavery, that the Confederacy was a noble cause, that the flag only honors our heritage, etc.

This is all a white-washed lie. The reason for secession was to continue the institution of slavery. No other reason. If you don't believe me, please read the words of the Confederates:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... er/396482/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Here you will find the secession articles from many states, which clearly demonstrate that for SC, and other deep south states, slavery WAS the reason.

God. How many times must we re-hash this conversation? The South seceded b/c of slavery. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand history. However, Southern men weren't fighting to maintain slaves they didn't have. Slave-owners made up a small, small portion of the population but they had the most influence. And how do you get your population to fight? Give them an ideology (Your rights, not slavery. Freedom not oil.) State's Rights (which was slavery) was the way. 'Fight for your rights to stay free. If the Union can take away slavery, they can take other things away.'

And while we're on the subject. The Union fought to keep those states b/c Slavery was vital to the Northern industries. You notice that slaves weren't freed in the North or other Union controlled areas and that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave the the Union had controlled over. Read news articles from that period (domestic and international) and you'll see a lot of criticism.

The South shouldn't have seceded. A confederacy is a bad, difficult and oppressive form of government.

One of the problems with these hicks is that 1) They don't understand the history and 2) Don't realize that living in the CSA afforded them less freedoms than living in the Union.


I will say this, if we're going to ban/remove/disgrace symbols and objects that were used to oppress people and used for violence then the American flag and the Holy Bible should be next. But that isn't the point.

We will keep having it as long as people glorify the rebellion and traitorous actions, and excuse them under the guise of "heritage"

The slave-owners were successfully able to fool the non-slave owners that they were fighting for a just cause - just as Nazi Germany was able to fool the German populace. That doesn't make the "Heritage" any less offensive.

[dbackjon]

Here's my response: so?

At the end of the day, and at the end of the war, slavery was eradicated and it was done so purposely. You can argue and successfully point out what the North thought before, during, and after the war, but the actions it took upon winning the war are pretty concrete and unarguable - slavery was ended, Blacks were given the right to vote, and Blacks were given due process rights. That's not really at all fighting "just as hard to maintain slavery". Whatever the North intended or wanted going into the war (and they basically wanted no secession and no war) when they came out of the war they acted with pretty noble purpose. Heck, 100 years later we had to pass the 24th ammendment to continue that noble purpose in the face of the South's continued persistence to subjucate Blacks.

And here is my response, so so

IF you are looking for someone to argue that the results of the war weren't for the best, you won't find it with me.

IF you are looking for someone to argue that the south's treatment of blacks for nearly 100 years after the war was the right thing, you won't find it with me. OF course, the north wasn't much better just smart enough not to legislate it.

If you think I think the south was right to secede, then you are wrong.

My point is simply the point made in that article and by my buddy dback is mostly bullshit.

Nothing bullshit about it, FU.

[dbackjon]

Nice job, jon.

[AZGrizFan]

It's at this tedious point of the argument where my eyes glaze over and want to just say "We won and slavery ended."

Well the interesting part is ...is that I didn't lose I wasn't involved. Honestly for the most part don't really care. My families ancestors fought on both sides.

I probably get a little riled up though because while the south was a horrid place for blacks for way to long, the south in many respects has surpassed the north in race relations. We still have our issues, but all you have to do is look at the way things have been in Charleston. And yet...................... instead of saying "Wow, the south has come a long way" we get and article like the above

So fuck em

Say what?

[OL FU]

Well the interesting part is ...is that I didn't lose I wasn't involved. Honestly for the most part don't really care. My families ancestors fought on both sides.

I probably get a little riled up though because while the south was a horrid place for blacks for way to long, the south in many respects has surpassed the north in race relations. We still have our issues, but all you have to do is look at the way things have been in Charleston. And yet...................... instead of saying "Wow, the south has come a long way" we get and article like the above

So **** em

Say what?

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

[Ibanez]

God. How many times must we re-hash this conversation? The South seceded b/c of slavery. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand history. However, Southern men weren't fighting to maintain slaves they didn't have. Slave-owners made up a small, small portion of the population but they had the most influence. And how do you get your population to fight? Give them an ideology (Your rights, not slavery. Freedom not oil.) State's Rights (which was slavery) was the way. 'Fight for your rights to stay free. If the Union can take away slavery, they can take other things away.'

And while we're on the subject. The Union fought to keep those states b/c Slavery was vital to the Northern industries. You notice that slaves weren't freed in the North or other Union controlled areas and that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave the the Union had controlled over. Read news articles from that period (domestic and international) and you'll see a lot of criticism.

The South shouldn't have seceded. A confederacy is a bad, difficult and oppressive form of government.

One of the problems with these hicks is that 1) They don't understand the history and 2) Don't realize that living in the CSA afforded them less freedoms than living in the Union.


I will say this, if we're going to ban/remove/disgrace symbols and objects that were used to oppress people and used for violence then the American flag and the Holy Bible should be next. But that isn't the point.

We will keep having it as long as people glorify the rebellion and traitorous actions, and excuse them under the guise of "heritage"

The slave-owners were successfully able to fool the non-slave owners that they were fighting for a just cause - just as Nazi Germany was able to fool the German populace. That doesn't make the "Heritage" any less offensive.

No one is arguing that the heritage is there due to something offensive. But it's our heritage. Just like killing and raping Indians, enslaving blacks and performing eugenics is the heritage of Americans.

It's what has made us who we are (for better or for worse). You have to accept the good with the bad. That's the way it works. You can't whitewash/ignore the misdeeds if one country simply because they won.

[Ibanez]

Say what?

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

No. We're good. The flag will be down as soon as this week and racism will cease in South Carolina.

[OL FU]

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

No. We're good. The flag will be down as soon as this week and racism will cease in South Carolina.

I hope you are right about the flag but honestly I will believe it when I see it. There is a lot of stubbornness in this state, I am concerned it will win out.

[Ibanez]

No. We're good. The flag will be down as soon as this week and racism will cease in South Carolina.

I hope you are right about the flag but honestly I will believe it when I see it. There is a lot of stubbornness in this state, I am concerned it will win out.

The Senate including Republicans have voted for it. It's political suicide to support it. It's coming down.

[Baldy]

Say what?

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

This.

Have you not seen the coverage from Charleston, AZ?
Black and white coming together in harmony. Like a lovely delicious bowl of Neapolitan.

[BDKJMU]

Shouldn't let one 21 yr old lunatic cause a knee nerk reaction. Govt rarely makes good decisons with knee nerk reactions because you have people acting irrationally due to feelings. A rational, non knee jerk reaction would be having cooling off period (say a year or so) and then voting....

But never let a crisis go to waste..

[Ivytalk]

Reading this thread reminds me of the old joke about white racial attitudes in the North and the South.

In the South, white people hate blacks as a race but love them as individuals.

In the North, it's the other way around!

[BDKJMU]

Reading this thread reminds me of the old joke about white racial attitudes in the North and the South.

In the South, white people hate blacks as a race but love them as individuals.

In the North, it's the other way around!

Sone truth to that..I remember 1st hearing that from my American Indian history professor in HS..

[CAA Flagship]

Reading this thread reminds me of the old joke about white racial attitudes in the North and the South.

In the South, white people hate blacks as a race but love them as individuals.

In the North, it's the other way around!

What does "the other way around" mean?

That whites hate blacks as individuals but love them as a race

or

That blacks hate whites as a race but love them as individuals?

[AZGrizFan]

Say what?

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

Define "north".

[CAA Flagship]

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

Define "north".

[BDKJMU]

Reading this thread reminds me of the old joke about white racial attitudes in the North and the South.

In the South, white people hate blacks as a race but love them as individuals.

In the North, it's the other way around!

What does "the other way around" mean?

That whites hate blacks as individuals but love them as a race

or

That blacks hate whites as a race but love them as individuals?

In the North, whites hate blacks as individuals but love them as a race.

[BDKJMU]

Have you been paying attention. Have you watched the news. We have a long way to go. We have a flag that let's everyone blame us. The north has riots .

Define "north".

Union states (at the time of the War Between the States)..

[CAA Flagship]

What does "the other way around" mean?

That whites hate blacks as individuals but love them as a race

or

That blacks hate whites as a race but love them as individuals?

In the North, whites hate blacks as individuals but love them as a race.

Oh, OK. Thanks.

[dbackjon]

Define "north".

Union states (at the time of the War Between the States)..

Baltimore and St. Louis were in slave states, so not really the North.

[Ibanez]

Union states (at the time of the War Between the States)..

Baltimore and St. Louis were in slave states, so not really the North.

Maryland was occupied. But Delaware wasn't and they had slaves. As did NJ and NY.

[dbackjon]

Baltimore and St. Louis were in slave states, so not really the North.

Maryland was occupied. But Delaware wasn't and they had slaves. As did NJ and NY.

Slavery was outlawed completely in NY in 1827

[travelinman67]

Bill Clinton on Obama “A Few Years Ago, That Guy Would Be Fetching Us Coffee"

About a week ago, I was having a conversation with a recent UC Davis grad gal who is a dyed-in-the-wool, flaming, indoctrinated, man-hating feminist who was railing about the "injustice" of the proposed $10 bill female having to SHARE the marquee WITH A MAN!!!!!!!!!

Once she had finished spraying venom, I asked her who she thought should receive the honor, adding it seemed the woman should embody what 20th century gains occurred for women. She replied she wasn't sure, suggesting Susan B. Anthony, or if elected, Hillary.
I suggested if it was a person that embodied the feminist movement, it should be eugenicist Maggie Sanger.

I waited just long enough for her to say, "Wait! What?", then turned and headed out the door.

True.