Confederate Battle Flag Poll

[Skjellyfetti]

A significant difference is that NAZI Germany was interested in invading other countries. The Confederate States of America was not. Instead, the Confederate States of America was invaded by the United States of America. It was just trying to defend itself.

And, that's why Davis and other Confederate leaders weren't entirely on board with Lee invading the North. This argument would be lost. But, Lee and Virginia needed relief badly and he chose to for military reasons. Davis eventually agreed.

But, the Confederacy did invade the North. Twice.

[travelinman67]

I'll just get one of these flags I guess to remember another independent nation that was established in the area I live in then was conquered by the United States and forced to become part of the union.

My exact sentiments. I live in a State that was once a sovereign State...the "Golden State"...



...then was overrun by an unstoppable hoard of low-IQ superbreeders, who forced the state into becoming part of a neighboring nation...

[BDKJMU]

The Vice President of the Confederate State of America......

The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/libr ... ne-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And 100 years later

[BDKJMU]

A significant difference is that NAZI Germany was interested in invading other countries. The Confederate States of America was not. Instead, the Confederate States of America was invaded by the United States of America. It was just trying to defend itself.

And, that's why Davis and other Confederate leaders weren't entirely on board with Lee invading the North. This argument would be lost. But, Lee and Virginia needed relief badly and he chose to for military reasons. Davis eventually agreed.

But, the Confederacy did invade the North. Twice.

But they weren't interested in conquering and holding northern terrority like Hitler was with European & Soviet territory. They were simy trying to win the war by trying to get the Europeans to recognize the Confederacy (which could have been done from a position of strength after a victory on northern soil) and/or the get the North to sue for peace.

To compare that to Hitlers invading most of Europe & the Soviet Union with every intention of holding that territory is

[Vidav]

And, that's why Davis and other Confederate leaders weren't entirely on board with Lee invading the North. This argument would be lost. But, Lee and Virginia needed relief badly and he chose to for military reasons. Davis eventually agreed.

But, the Confederacy did invade the North. Twice.

But they weren't interested in conquering and holding northern terrority like Hitler was with European & Soviet territory. They were simy trying to win the war by trying to get the Europeans to recognize the Confederacy (which could have been done from a position of strength after a victory on northern soil) and/or the get the North to sue for peace.

To compare that to Hitlers invading most of Europe & the Soviet Union with every intention of holding that territory is

You are right. Wanting to break from a country because you don't value human life and want to have slaves is completely different than wanting to invade countries to kill off the weaker races.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

It's about heritage, not hate.

Im not offended by that one either

[CID1990]

eh, our country was founded by traitorous secessionists.

But they won.

Holy shit Klean just posted a /thread

THATS always the difference between traitorous rebels and patriot revolutionaries.

[Pwns]

Yeah that pretty much nailed it...

Funny that the swatstika is brought up when we fought on the same side as one of the worst mass murderers of all time in WW2...but that little detail is omitted so that it makes a nice comic book story.

[JohnStOnge]

Well I learned something as a result of Googling for this discussion. The West Florida Republic Flag or at least a variation of it was used by the Confederacy as kind of an icon. Great, that means if I get a West Florida Republic flag and hang it once in a while like I've thought of doing from time to time there's some chance that somebody might think it's a Confederate flag and be offended.

[YoUDeeMan]

For three straight years, my frat brothers and I liberated the KA's Confederate Battle Flag every Halloween night. YES WE CAN..........lol

Typical thug thief...thinks he is entitled to other people's property.

[YoUDeeMan]

You don't have to like me, but you are going to respect me. Am I know I BULLSHIT a lot, but this s a serious question.

News flash: I don't have to respect you. Nor does anyone else.

And cripes, with your inability to communicate, who the hell could ever respect you for being anything but a clown?

The funny thing was that I was going to put some snip about you and your, "liberation" brothers' inherent need for, "respect" in my quote above this one, but thought it was piling on.

Instead, you provide just the right amount of material to make you look like an ignorant fool again.

Congrats!

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Its just a flag................if you let it get you that worked up.....................a piece of cloth or nylon is the farthest thing from your real problem.

[YoUDeeMan]

You are right. Wanting to break from a country because you don't value human life and want to have slaves is completely different than wanting to invade countries to kill off the weaker races.

There is a difference, and it is quite obvious.

Otherwise, are you suggesting that you want the US to forcefully eliminate every nation that disrespects it's own people?

USofA...world police?

[Ibanez]

Its just a flag................if you let it get you that worked up.....................a piece of cloth or nylon is the farthest thing from your real problem.

So you agree with Michelle Obama? " all this over a flag."

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Its just a flag................if you let it get you that worked up.....................a piece of cloth or nylon is the farthest thing from your real problem.

So you agree with Michelle Obama? " all this over a flag."

Now your just trolling............

[OL FU]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

[JohnStOnge]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

I have kind of an opposite view. I think on a national level we tie ourselves in knots and wring our hands and go way out of our way all over the place to placate a group that makes up 13% of the population. In your State it's 25% of the population and in mine without looking up the latest I think it's like 31%. The the point is that nationally it's 13% of the population and to me we spend WAY too much time and effort on it. And we make excuses for its failures and exaggerate its successes. We have a whole network of official policies and rules to give its members advantages such as that "diversity" crap that was cited (as an example) by Michigan Law school as creating a situation in which 75% of the members of one of its 1st year classes would not have gotten into law school if they hadn't gotten preferential treatment as being "under represented minority" individuals. To me the rest of us in the national population ought to just say something like this:

"Get over it. We took our foot off your necks and let you up when there was no way you could've gotten out of the fix yourself. We voluntarily let you off the ground. Now you're off the ground so just shut up and make your way."

But, unfortunately, we have a substantial proportion of the White population that is afflicted by some kind of a guilt complex or something so that they facilitate the whole country bending over backwards to address the whining coming from 13%. Pathetic. Nothing somebody like me can do about it so it's just one of those things I have to live with but it's pathetic that there are enough White people in the country who go along with that crap to allow it to happen.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

If 51% of the state thought that then you may have a point, catering to the minority in this country has to stop.

[93henfan]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

If 51% of the state thought that then you may have a point, catering to the minority in this country has to stop.

It will when whites are a minority. Book it.

[Ibanez]

So you agree with Michelle Obama? " all this over a flag."

Now your just trolling............

I'm just making a correlation.

It is just a flag, however people have given it the power to inspire hatred and fear. It truly is about heritage for so many and not hate. The men fighting in the Civil War weren't fighting for slaves they never owned.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Now your just trolling............

I'm just making a correlation.

It is just a flag, however people have given it the power to inspire hatred and fear. It truly is about heritage for so many and not hate. The men fighting in the Civil War weren't fighting for slaves they never owned.

Hey Kalm down.......you dont need to convince me, I like the flag and I know what it stands for, not what others try to convince people it stands for. I would keep it there for no other reason than to toughen people up and let them know that a piece of fabric isnt a good enough excuse to not assimilate and be productive.

[Ibanez]

I'm just making a correlation.

It is just a flag, however people have given it the power to inspire hatred and fear. It truly is about heritage for so many and not hate. The men fighting in the Civil War weren't fighting for slaves they never owned.

Hey Kalm down.......you dont need to convince me, I like the flag and I know what it stands for, not what others try to convince people it stands for. I would keep it there for no other reason than to toughen people up and let them know that a piece of fabric isnt a good enough excuse to not assimilate and be productive.

Haha. It's a piece of fabric. I agree with you. Keep it at the memorial. It's a red herring, IMO.

[CID1990]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

I agree.

All of my male ancestors of fighting age fought for the Confederacy. They were killed at Seven Pines, captured at Gettysburg, and wallowed in the mud at Petersburg. I'm proud of them for going to fight when their state called them.

Ive never thought it was appropriate for the flag to be on the Statehouse or its grounds, especially given how it got there in the first place. Defending it vehemently only leads to specious arguments, and implies state endorsement of the cause it represents.

I think it is possible to separate the individual Confederate soldier from the overall cause they served, but the flag on the statehouse grounds doesnt represent the individual soldier - it represents the whole idea.

I dont care if people misunderstand its significance in their desire to see it taken down or not - it doesnt matter. It is offensive to some, and it is unwelcoming to a whole class of people.

Id be perfectly willing to discuss my nonracial reverence for the flag, but before that conversation can happen in good faith, the flag needs to be removed from its position of state government endorsement.

[Pwns]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

"Because people get offended" is not a good reason to take it down. Some black people see the American flag and see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, and racism. Some other non-white people might see the Trail of Tears or the bombing of Hiroshima or Jim Crow or the Vietnam War or any number of things. Maybe we can just adopt a rainbow flag and no one will get offended?

Just like with native American mascot names, it is about context. If black rappers can use the n-word and black fraternities can brand themselves with their letters without those being painful reminders of history because of context why can't the confederate flag also be looked at for its context? A lot of white supremacist groups have their own banners and symbols because the confederate flag has become a symbol of a southerner more so than any symbol of racial seperatism or inequality.

Of course, a lot of dumb liberal people don't see the difference between the pickup truck-driving, NASCAR watching rural white southerner and people who believe in evolutionary superiority of certain races and ethnic groups. That's my problem with a lot of the anti-confederate-flag, social justice folks.

[Vidav]

There a numerous reasons for the flag to stay up. There is one reason for it to be taken down. 25% of the population of our state see bigotry, hatred, discrimination, racism, etc when they look at that flag and with good reason. For that single reason, it should come down.

I agree.

All of my male ancestors of fighting age fought for the Confederacy. They were killed at Seven Pines, captured at Gettysburg, and wallowed in the mud at Petersburg. I'm proud of them for going to fight when their state called them.

Ive never thought it was appropriate for the flag to be on the Statehouse or its grounds, especially given how it got there in the first place. Defending it vehemently only leads to specious arguments, and implies state endorsement of the cause it represents.

I think it is possible to separate the individual Confederate soldier from the overall cause they served, but the flag on the statehouse grounds doesnt represent the individual soldier - it represents the whole idea.

I dont care if people misunderstand its significance in their desire to see it taken down or not - it doesnt matter. It is offensive to some, and it is unwelcoming to a whole class of people.

Id be perfectly willing to discuss my nonracial reverence for the flag, but before that conversation can happen in good faith, the flag needs to be removed from its position of state government endorsement.