The Government Teat...

[Baldy]

Elon Musk's Growing Empire is Fueled by $4.9 Billion in Government Subsidies

Los Angeles entrepreneur Elon Musk has built a multibillion-dollar fortune running companies that make electric cars, sell solar panels and launch rockets into space.

And he's built those companies with the help of billions in government subsidies.

Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times. The figure underscores a common theme running through his emerging empire: a public-private financing model underpinning long-shot start-ups.

"He definitely goes where there is government money," said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research. "That's a great strategy, but the government will cut you off one day."

The figure compiled by The Times comprises a variety of government incentives, including grants, tax breaks, factory construction, discounted loans and environmental credits that Tesla can sell. It also includes tax credits and rebates to buyers of solar panels and electric cars.

A looming question is whether the companies are moving toward self-sufficiency — as Dolev believes — and whether they can slash development costs before the public largesse ends.

Tesla and SolarCity continue to report net losses after a decade in business, but the stocks of both companies have soared on their potential; Musk's stake in the firms alone is worth about $10 billion. (SpaceX, a private company, does not publicly report financial performance.)

Musk and his companies' investors enjoy most of the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

The payoff for the public would come in the form of major pollution reductions, but only if solar panels and electric cars break through as viable mass-market products. For now, both remain niche products for mostly well-heeled customers.

Musk declined repeated requests for an interview through Tesla spokespeople, and officials at all three companies declined to comment.

Oh the irony.

[Chizzang]

Why wouldn't he..?
Corporations are people and all the loopholes and tax incentives are in place
Elon Musk didn't invent the system - he's just abusing the sh!t out of it like every "person" should

Why is it "Oh the Irony" ?
what irony exactly are you seeing here..?

[kalm]

Elon Musk's Growing Empire is Fueled by $4.9 Billion in Government Subsidies

Los Angeles entrepreneur Elon Musk has built a multibillion-dollar fortune running companies that make electric cars, sell solar panels and launch rockets into space.

And he's built those companies with the help of billions in government subsidies.

Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times. The figure underscores a common theme running through his emerging empire: a public-private financing model underpinning long-shot start-ups.

"He definitely goes where there is government money," said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research. "That's a great strategy, but the government will cut you off one day."

The figure compiled by The Times comprises a variety of government incentives, including grants, tax breaks, factory construction, discounted loans and environmental credits that Tesla can sell. It also includes tax credits and rebates to buyers of solar panels and electric cars.

A looming question is whether the companies are moving toward self-sufficiency — as Dolev believes — and whether they can slash development costs before the public largesse ends.

Tesla and SolarCity continue to report net losses after a decade in business, but the stocks of both companies have soared on their potential; Musk's stake in the firms alone is worth about $10 billion. (SpaceX, a private company, does not publicly report financial performance.)

Musk and his companies' investors enjoy most of the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

The payoff for the public would come in the form of major pollution reductions, but only if solar panels and electric cars break through as viable mass-market products. For now, both remain niche products for mostly well-heeled customers.

Musk declined repeated requests for an interview through Tesla spokespeople, and officials at all three companies declined to comment.

Oh the irony.

He's just a more sophisticated version of Paul Ryan's (or insert countless others) family.

[Ivytalk]

Guvmint teat.... SUCK IT!!

[Baldy]

Elon Musk's Growing Empire is Fueled by $4.9 Billion in Government Subsidies



Oh the irony.

He's just a more sophisticated version of Paul Ryan's (or insert countless others) family.

There is no need for me to defend the Ryan family, but their family business has been going since the 1880's. Building railroads, highways, airports. You know, that infrastructure you love to love so much. A legitimate, honest, hardworking business providing employment and benefits to countless Americans. Middle class Americans.

Musk, on the other hand, is the CEO of two different companies making millions upon millions of dollars that haven't even came close to making a profit in either company's history. Musk, the sophisticant, with his nose buried in the trough $5 Billion deep.

[Baldy]

Why wouldn't he..?
Corporations are people and all the loopholes and tax incentives are in place
Elon Musk didn't invent the system - he's just abusing the sh!t out of it like every "person" should

Why is it "Oh the Irony" ?
what irony exactly are you seeing here..?

Chizz, I'm not talking about tax breaks and incentives. We're talking about cold hard cash.
When people take advantage of a tax break or an incentive, they just get to keep more of the money they earned. Tesla and SolarCity don't make money.

[Chizzang]

Why wouldn't he..?
Corporations are people and all the loopholes and tax incentives are in place
Elon Musk didn't invent the system - he's just abusing the sh!t out of it like every "person" should

Why is it "Oh the Irony" ?
what irony exactly are you seeing here..?

Chizz, I'm not talking about tax breaks and incentives. We're talking about cold hard cash.
When people take advantage of a tax break or an incentive, they just get to keep more of the money they earned. Tesla and SolarCity don't make money.

Yeah...
Neither does Northrop Grumman without billions of handouts
Where would Lockheed Martin be today without a funnel of cash pouring into their pockets annually

I'm not sure I see your point
Special Interest and Corporate Handouts its what we do - The COMPANY is GOD
Why would you NOT design a company around a government that throws away Billions
just smart business

Welcome to America - if you need more help let me know

Oh and this (unrelated image)

[93henfan]

We're all sucking the Government teat in some way, shape, or form. Even the fiercely anti-govies. I haven't heard of Ted Kaczynski or Eric Rudolph refusing any of their free meals at Supermax. Sellouts.

[YoUDeeMan]

Does Chizz actually believe that making corporations pay more taxes would be anything other than making the corporation's customers (that would be the people) pay more taxes?

Let's raise WalMart's prices.





Welcome to America...if you need help, let me know.

[Chizzang]

Does Chizz actually believe that making corporations pay more taxes would be anything other than making the corporation's customers (that would be the people) pay more taxes?

Let's raise WalMart's prices.





Welcome to America...if you need help, let me know.

Try reading my posts



I've only been saying for 10 years on this forum we do not have a TAX problem
we have a spending problem

[YoUDeeMan]

Does Chizz actually believe that making corporations pay more taxes would be anything other than making the corporation's customers (that would be the people) pay more taxes?

Let's raise WalMart's prices.





Welcome to America...if you need help, let me know.

Try reading my posts

Seems I caught you in mid-edit.

I do read your posts...and after I get by the whining, I usually see more whining.

Why the post about corporate taxes going down as a % of expenditures? What's the point? We're paying for it all somehow.

[Chizzang]

Try reading my posts

Seems I caught you in mid-edit.

I do read your posts...and after I get by the whining, I usually see more whining.

Why the post about corporate taxes going down as a % of expenditures? What's the point? We're paying for it all somehow.

My point is / was
Our country is built around the sacred corporation and a Federal Government addicted to spending money

It's not sustainable but you can't have it both ways

[kalm]

Seems I caught you in mid-edit.

I do read your posts...and after I get by the whining, I usually see more whining.

Why the post about corporate taxes going down as a % of expenditures? What's the point? We're paying for it all somehow.

My point is / was
Our country is built around the sacred corporation and a Federal Government addicted to spending money

It's not sustainable but you can't have it both ways

And ironically spending a decent amount of money with private sector…………………………..corporations. But, but, but…if we raise their taxes they'll just pass it on to the governm…I mean consumer!

Hey, maybe we can go back to the original purpose and life span of corporations with AG regulation and revocation of charters.

[Baldy]

Chizz, I'm not talking about tax breaks and incentives. We're talking about cold hard cash.
When people take advantage of a tax break or an incentive, they just get to keep more of the money they earned. Tesla and SolarCity don't make money.

Yeah...
Neither does Northrop Grumman without billions of handouts
Where would Lockheed Martin be today without a funnel of cash pouring into their pockets annually

I'm not sure I see your point
Special Interest and Corporate Handouts its what we do - The COMPANY is GOD
Why would you NOT design a company around a government that throws away Billions
just smart business

Welcome to America - if you need more help let me know

Oh and this (unrelated image)

Not your best work, Chizz.

Northrop and Lockheed take advantage of the same tax breaks as Apple or Amazon or Google or WalMart, so how is being able to keep more of their own money...the money that they earned, a handout? To think otherwise is to believe that all income earned is due to the benevolence of the federal government.

There is a big difference between keeping your own money (earned income) and the transfer of cold hard cash (unearned income) from the coffers of the US Treasury directly into welfare queen Elon Musk's own banking account.

You're really struggling with this, Cleets. I'm here for you, just say the word.

[Pwns]

Guess I can't blame a guy for cashing in on a government willing to throw any poop it can find against the wall with respect to energy and see what sticks.

[CID1990]

I cant blame the guy- and he IS producing something real that works, and has the potential to revolutionize the auto industry.

If I can afford a Tesla, built by a company that is solvent on its own within the next 10 years I think the government subsidies of today will have been worth it.

There are plenty of useless "renewable energy" companies out there truly sucking the teat with nothing to show for it to rail at- at least Musk is making something tangible. If he can make it affordable then it will be a winner.

[Chizzang]

Northrop and Lockheed take advantage of the same tax breaks as Apple or Amazon or Google or WalMart, so how is being able to keep more of their own money...the money that they earned, a handout? To think otherwise is to believe that all income earned is due to the benevolence of the federal government.

There is a big difference between keeping your own money (earned income) and the transfer of cold hard cash (unearned income) from the coffers of the US Treasury directly into welfare queen Elon Musk's own banking account.

You're really struggling with this, Cleets. I'm here for you, just say the word.

Bingo..!!!
all of those things ^ happen simultaneously right (Extreme tax breaks and free federal money)
The companies I listed have endless funnels of Federal money pouring into pockets also

I'm sorry that confuses you - sometimes more than one thing happens at a time

Still: Thread Fail but nice try grandpa (we'll all get off your lawn now)

[SeattleGriz]

The Ex - Im Bank.

[Baldy]

Northrop and Lockheed take advantage of the same tax breaks as Apple or Amazon or Google or WalMart, so how is being able to keep more of their own money...the money that they earned, a handout? To think otherwise is to believe that all income earned is due to the benevolence of the federal government.

There is a big difference between keeping your own money (earned income) and the transfer of cold hard cash (unearned income) from the coffers of the US Treasury directly into welfare queen Elon Musk's own banking account.

You're really struggling with this, Cleets. I'm here for you, just say the word.

Bingo..!!!
all of those things ^ happen simultaneously right (Extreme tax breaks and free federal money)
The companies I listed have endless funnels of Federal money pouring into pockets also

I'm sorry that confuses you - sometimes more than one thing happens at a time

Still: Thread Fail but nice try grandpa (we'll all get off your lawn now)

Chizz, I'm beginning to feel a little sorry for you. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

There is huge difference between Northrop, Lockheed, etc. who actually provide goods and services to and for the feds for a fee in the marketplace, while subsidized lottery welfare queens like Tesla and SolarCity (who do not provide goods or services or tangible property for the feds) show up for a free check.

You're learning, sometimes more than one thing happens at a time. However, you do need to lean that those things are often not related (as in this case).

[Chizzang]

Bingo..!!!
all of those things ^ happen simultaneously right (Extreme tax breaks and free federal money)
The companies I listed have endless funnels of Federal money pouring into pockets also

I'm sorry that confuses you - sometimes more than one thing happens at a time

Still: Thread Fail but nice try grandpa (we'll all get off your lawn now)

Chizz, I'm beginning to feel a little sorry for you. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

There is huge difference between Northrop, Lockheed, etc. who actually provide goods and services to and for the feds for a fee in the marketplace, while subsidized lottery welfare queens like Tesla and SolarCity (who do not provide goods or services or tangible property for the feds) show up for a free check.

You're learning, sometimes more than one thing happens at a time. However, you do need to lean that those things are often not related (as in this case).

Again: No Grandpa
Those companies were started the EXACT same way Tesla ad Space X were started
and now are valuable // again Fail

[CAA Flagship]

Ahh. Trickle-down manufacturing.

[93henfan]

[Chizzang]

Ahh. Trickle-down manufacturing.

You'd be CRAZY to start a business any other way...
Any CEO / CFO worth his weight in clam dip knows the game plan already

[Baldy]

Chizz, I'm beginning to feel a little sorry for you. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

There is huge difference between Northrop, Lockheed, etc. who actually provide goods and services to and for the feds for a fee in the marketplace, while subsidized lottery welfare queens like Tesla and SolarCity (who do not provide goods or services or tangible property for the feds) show up for a free check.

You're learning, sometimes more than one thing happens at a time. However, you do need to lean that those things are often not related (as in this case).

Again: No Grandpa
Those companies were started the EXACT same way Tesla ad Space X were started
and now are valuable // again Fail

The EXACT same way? Does Tesla make tanks or bombers or Humvees or something?

The only Fail is your little Hershey kiss diagram. It shows lots of revenues funding other projects, but we all know that's a lie. There are no revenues, only government subsidies.

Try again, Cleetz...

[BDKJMU]

If it's such a good product with good ROI then why isn't there adequate private funding? Why does he need govt funding?