Congrats Ireland

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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by JohnStOnge »

You are making the mistake that the only way to advance a species is for every single member of that species to reproduce.
No, I didn't say that. In fact I specifically mentioned ants.

But that doesn't change the fact that the reason for the existence of a sex drive is reproduction. There's a reason why climax in males of our species is associated with the ejaculation of sex cells. So on and so forth.

The reason why an individual of our species has a drive for sexual gratification is that that drive results in genetic recombination. And having a sex drive primarily directed at members of your own sex is totally inconsistent with that. It's "off." Sorry, but it's just the truth.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by Grizalltheway »

JohnStOnge wrote:
You are making the mistake that the only way to advance a species is for every single member of that species to reproduce.
No, I didn't say that. In fact I specifically mentioned ants.

But that doesn't change the fact that the reason for the existence of a sex drive is reproduction. There's a reason why climax in males of our species is associated with the ejaculation of sex cells. So on and so forth.

The reason why an individual of our species has a drive for sexual gratification is that that drive results in genetic recombination. And having a sex drive primarily directed at members of your own sex is totally inconsistent with that. It's "off." Sorry, but it's just the truth.
Lots of things people do are "off". That doesn't make them inherently wrong. Surely you're smart enough to see the difference.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by andy7171 »

Homos are magical healers now?
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Ibanez wrote:
andy7171 wrote:WTAG - "Anything that happens in nature is natural, the Bible doesn't matter."
Cluck - What about pedophilia
WTAG - Thats culture! Against the law.
Cluck - So culture/laws matter, even in nature?
WTAG - I win!
89 - huh?
:lol: Thanks for the recap. I was forgetting WTAGs arguement.
So was he. :coffee:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by YoUDeeMan »

dbackjon wrote:
In addition, many of the gay/transgendered individuals (and they have existed since the dawn of man) have been drawn to healing, artistic and other endeavors that benefited the group as a whole - a small group with a healer would be much more likely to thrive than a group with no healer.
:suspicious:

Hey, Pandora, you left that box open again.

So now that you've defined a predispositioned role for gays, can you do the same for Black people and Asians?
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by andy7171 »

dbackjon wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
If you're talking about the post that shows up on my system as posted Mon May 25, 2015 11:04 am, no, it doesn't. First of all it's basically a set of unsubstantiated assertions. But I think it's important to say that I don't even disagree with the assertions per se. I did not say that homosexuality is not "natural." Any disfunction is "natural."

I don't disagree with the assertion that sex plays social roles beyond reproduction.

But the bottom line is that sex drives exist because they promote reproduction. And if you have a sex drive that is directed primarily towards members of your own sex you've got a malfunction. I'm talking about an actual preference for copulation with members of your own sex over members of the opposite sex.

Reproduction is ultimately what biology is all about. Even all of the social organization stuff is ultimately related to reproduction. Even the hunger drive. All the stuff about surviving. The survival is about surviving to reproduce or to facilitate reproduction of your species. There are asexual individuals, such as in ants, that don't survive to reproduce themselves. But their existence is about reproduction of the species.

And anybody that tells you otherwise is lying to you.

You are making the mistake that the only way to advance a species is for every single member of that species to reproduce. Nature has shown time and time again that your core assumption is false - there are plenty of examples of family/cooperative rearing of young, with some members of the group not reproducing.

In fact, having non-reproducing siblings would actually be an ADVANTAGE for small hunter/gatherer groups. You would have more adults caring for the infants, so instead of a man and a woman (or two women with the one husband, assuming they did that sort of pairing), if you had a woman and her non-reproducing sibling helping out, the infant would have a better chance of survival.

In addition, many of the gay/transgendered individuals (and they have existed since the dawn of man) have been drawn to healing, artistic and other endeavors that benefited the group as a whole - a small group with a healer would be much more likely to thrive than a group with no healer.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
kalm wrote:Go back and read GATW's quote from a book. It completely destroys all arguments you have regarding homosexuality. :nod:
If you're talking about the post that shows up on my system as posted Mon May 25, 2015 11:04 am, no, it doesn't. First of all it's basically a set of unsubstantiated assertions. But I think it's important to say that I don't even disagree with the assertions per se. I did not say that homosexuality is not "natural." Any disfunction is "natural."

I don't disagree with the assertion that sex plays social roles beyond reproduction.

But the bottom line is that sex drives exist because they promote reproduction. And if you have a sex drive that is directed primarily towards members of your own sex you've got a malfunction. I'm talking about an actual preference for copulation with members of your own sex over members of the opposite sex.

Reproduction is ultimately what biology is all about. Even all of the social organization stuff is ultimately related to reproduction. Even the hunger drive. All the stuff about surviving. The survival is about surviving to reproduce or to facilitate reproduction of your species. There are asexual individuals, such as in ants, that don't survive to reproduce themselves. But their existence is about reproduction of the species.

And anybody that tells you otherwise is lying to you.
According to Sagan, rates of homosexuality and social dysfunction increase noticeably with overpopulation. Nature's way of culling the herd?
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by kalm »

andy7171 wrote:
dbackjon wrote:

You are making the mistake that the only way to advance a species is for every single member of that species to reproduce. Nature has shown time and time again that your core assumption is false - there are plenty of examples of family/cooperative rearing of young, with some members of the group not reproducing.

In fact, having non-reproducing siblings would actually be an ADVANTAGE for small hunter/gatherer groups. You would have more adults caring for the infants, so instead of a man and a woman (or two women with the one husband, assuming they did that sort of pairing), if you had a woman and her non-reproducing sibling helping out, the infant would have a better chance of survival.

In addition, many of the gay/transgendered individuals (and they have existed since the dawn of man) have been drawn to healing, artistic and other endeavors that benefited the group as a whole - a small group with a healer would be much more likely to thrive than a group with no healer.
The more I re read this the more it takes on a D&D feel. Image
Have you finished it yet?
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by 89Hen »

dbackjon wrote:In addition, many of the gay/transgendered individuals (and they have existed since the dawn of man) have been drawn to healing, artistic and other endeavors that benefited the group as a whole - a small group with a healer would be much more likely to thrive than a group with no healer.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by mainejeff »

HI54UNI wrote:
andy7171 wrote:I'm **** lost.
Me too. I think we're at it's OK to be gay but looking at Allison Stokke pictures from before she was 18 is bad.

This is a college pic so we should be OK.

Image
And to think she used to be a man..........

:coffee:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by kalm »

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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by 93henfan »

kalm wrote:Image
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Cluck U wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
In addition, many of the gay/transgendered individuals (and they have existed since the dawn of man) have been drawn to healing, artistic and other endeavors that benefited the group as a whole - a small group with a healer would be much more likely to thrive than a group with no healer.
:suspicious:

Hey, Pandora, you left that box open again.

So now that you've defined a predispositioned role for gays, can you do the same for Black people and Asians?
Guess dabackwardsthinking is still trying to think of some predisposed roles for Blacks and Asians. :coffee:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by andy7171 »

mainejeff wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:
Me too. I think we're at it's OK to be gay but looking at Allison Stokke pictures from before she was 18 is bad.

This is a college pic so we should be OK.

Image
And to think she used to be a man..........

:coffee:
So. You're saying you would fuck it then?
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by 93henfan »

Only if she agreed to peg him after.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by Ibanez »

Cluck U wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
:suspicious:

Hey, Pandora, you left that box open again.

So now that you've defined a predispositioned role for gays, can you do the same for Black people and Asians?
Guess dabackwardsthinking is still trying to think of some predisposed roles for Blacks and Asians. :coffee:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by Chizzang »

a few weeks ago (In the Bay Area by no surprise)
I listened to an interesting perspective on this topic

The man said:
Homosexuality is real and it happens in nature with no logical explanation, among humans and other species... Denying the existence of or the legitimacy of something built by nature is to act against god. A lot of things happen in nature that I don't like and a lot happens that I do like so obviously humans are a poor judge of nature.

Just let God do what god does... and get out of the way


:nod: *ZING!!!!
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by JohnStOnge »

According to Sagan, rates of homosexuality and social dysfunction increase noticeably with overpopulation. Nature's way of culling the herd?
You know I wouldn't be surprised if there is something to that. It's been a long time and I don't know if I can find it but I remember reading one time about an experiment in which they inferred that subjecting female rats to stress during pregnancy led to a situation in which male offspring tended to have "female-like" brains. This was like back in the 1980s and the elapsed time makes the details fuzzy in my mind but I remember it.

But wait...I just did a Google and I think I found a reference to it:

http://www.viewzone.com/homosexual.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In a paper published almost a quarter of a century ago, a research psychologist at Villanova University was also puzzled about gender. Dr. Ingebog Ward was studying the sexual behavior of rats, years before the role of the hypothalamus was even suspected of gendering human brains. [6]

Dr. Ward divided some pregnant rats into three groups. Suspecting that something special might be happening in the early stages of pregnancy, she subjected the first group to stress during the first ten days of gestation by irritating the mother rats to bright lights, noise and annoying vibrations. Ten days in a rat's pregnancy corresponds to the first trimester (3 months) of a human pregnancy. The second group was subjected to stress towards the end of their pregnancy, just before birth. The third group was comprised of male offspring from both prenatal stressed mothers and unstressed mothers. These babies were subjected to the same stress producing stimuli.

Dr. Ward then allowed all the males to grow to adulthood without further interference. She then placed each group of males in cages with healthy females to observe their ability and desire to mate with normal adult females. Here is what happened:

"Abstract: Male rats were exposed to prenatal (i.e. before they were born) or postnatal (after they were born) stress, or both. The prenatally stressed males showed low levels of male copulatory behavior and high rates of female lordotic responding (i.e. "lordotic" refers to mounting behavior which usually occurs during mating). Postnatal stress had no effect. The modifications are attributed to stress-mediated alterations in the ratio of adrenal to gonadal androgens during critical stages of sexual differentiation. Specifically, it appears that stress causes an increase in the weak adrenal androgen, androstendione, from the maternal fetal adrenal cortices, or both, and a concurrent decrease in the potent gonadal androgen, testosterone." [6]
That's flat out amazing that I was able to find a reference to something I dimly remembered reading long ago. The internet is an amazing, powerful tool.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by JohnStOnge »

Ok I'm going to try another one. About the same time I looked at the rat thing I saw an observational study suggesting an association between stress introduced by WWII and British mothers having more homosexual male offspring. Off to Google to see if I can find reference to that one.

Ok I think I found a reference to it or something like it:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 2v28n03_05" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also think that is an example of a case in which the authors of the study to replicate the results of the previous study were obviously biased and probably started off with a strong wish to "debunk" the first study. I think you can probably see it too.
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Congrats Ireland

Post by andy7171 »

Mice eat their new born babies. Nature. We should be able to do that without the government fucks looking down on us.
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by kalm »

andy7171 wrote:Mice eat their new born babies. Nature. We should be able to do that without the government fucks looking down on us.
Classic Andy! :lol:
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Re: Congrats Ireland

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
According to Sagan, rates of homosexuality and social dysfunction increase noticeably with overpopulation. Nature's way of culling the herd?
You know I wouldn't be surprised if there is something to that. It's been a long time and I don't know if I can find it but I remember reading one time about an experiment in which they inferred that subjecting female rats to stress during pregnancy led to a situation in which male offspring tended to have "female-like" brains. This was like back in the 1980s and the elapsed time makes the details fuzzy in my mind but I remember it.

But wait...I just did a Google and I think I found a reference to it:

http://www.viewzone.com/homosexual.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In a paper published almost a quarter of a century ago, a research psychologist at Villanova University was also puzzled about gender. Dr. Ingebog Ward was studying the sexual behavior of rats, years before the role of the hypothalamus was even suspected of gendering human brains. [6]

Dr. Ward divided some pregnant rats into three groups. Suspecting that something special might be happening in the early stages of pregnancy, she subjected the first group to stress during the first ten days of gestation by irritating the mother rats to bright lights, noise and annoying vibrations. Ten days in a rat's pregnancy corresponds to the first trimester (3 months) of a human pregnancy. The second group was subjected to stress towards the end of their pregnancy, just before birth. The third group was comprised of male offspring from both prenatal stressed mothers and unstressed mothers. These babies were subjected to the same stress producing stimuli.

Dr. Ward then allowed all the males to grow to adulthood without further interference. She then placed each group of males in cages with healthy females to observe their ability and desire to mate with normal adult females. Here is what happened:

"Abstract: Male rats were exposed to prenatal (i.e. before they were born) or postnatal (after they were born) stress, or both. The prenatally stressed males showed low levels of male copulatory behavior and high rates of female lordotic responding (i.e. "lordotic" refers to mounting behavior which usually occurs during mating). Postnatal stress had no effect. The modifications are attributed to stress-mediated alterations in the ratio of adrenal to gonadal androgens during critical stages of sexual differentiation. Specifically, it appears that stress causes an increase in the weak adrenal androgen, androstendione, from the maternal fetal adrenal cortices, or both, and a concurrent decrease in the potent gonadal androgen, testosterone." [6]
That's flat out amazing that I was able to find a reference to something I dimly remembered reading long ago. The internet is an amazing, powerful tool.
So God (nature) creates equilibrium through homosexuality. What a positive dysfunction! :notworthy:
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