Christianity Declining

[Chizzang]

Imagined persecution complex:

“Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion... perhaps around their necks? And maybe -- dare I dream it? -- maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively.”

"I have to say, as someone who is not a Christian, it’s hard for me to believe Christians are a persecuted people in America that’s my point, is they’ve taken this idea of no establishment as persecution, because they feel entitled, not to equal status, but to greater status."

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

When someone says they figured it all out at the age of 10, I wonder if they ever consider what that sounds like to a person of faith.

We all had it figured out when we were somewhere between 10 and 15, didn't we?

If you figured it all out when you were 10, I wonder if you have ever gone back and tested your certainty by reading defenses of religious faith put forth by noted and respected philosophers and theologians?

I ask these questions respectfully, with no intention of flaming anyone.

I long ago came to the conclusion that the only difference between a believer and an atheist/agnostic is on what side you place the burden of proof? Do you place faith in your intuition? Or do you demand tangible and irrefutable evidence?

Read it again JJ cuz you are getting what was said wrong. I never once came close to intimating what you are putting forth here.

AS far as I'm concerned it's bullshit. I could see it as bullshit at a very young age. I don't need to go back and re-examine that. I still have all the discussions with advocates of the BS so I get to frequently look it over again.

[D1B]

When someone says they figured it all out at the age of 10, I wonder if they ever consider what that sounds like to a person of faith.

We all had it figured out when we were somewhere between 10 and 15, didn't we?

If you figured it all out when you were 10, I wonder if you have ever gone back and tested your certainty by reading defenses of religious faith put forth by noted and respected philosophers and theologians?

I ask these questions respectfully, with no intention of flaming anyone.

I long ago came to the conclusion that the only difference between a believer and an atheist/agnostic is on what side you place the burden of proof? Do you place faith in your intuition? Or do you demand tangible and irrefutable evidence?

Not really, Joe.

Every non religious poster's intuition here posits a higher power or God. The difference is we've outgrown the utter bullshit your religion and others offer as proof of god's existence or nature.

Any 10 year old can dismantle the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God.

[Chizzang]

When someone says they figured it all out at the age of 10, I wonder if they ever consider what that sounds like to a person of faith.

We all had it figured out when we were somewhere between 10 and 15, didn't we?

If you figured it all out when you were 10, I wonder if you have ever gone back and tested your certainty by reading defenses of religious faith put forth by noted and respected philosophers and theologians?

I ask these questions respectfully, with no intention of flaming anyone.

I long ago came to the conclusion that the only difference between a believer and an atheist/agnostic is on what side you place the burden of proof? Do you place faith in your intuition? Or do you demand tangible and irrefutable evidence?

Not really, Joe.

Every non religious poster's intuition here posits a higher power or God. The difference is we've outgrown the utter bullshit your religion and others offer as proof of god's existence or nature.

Any 10 year old can dismantle the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God.

Well said:
That really is the crux of the debate
Its not so much about God (known or unknown / felt or experienced) its about the limited imagination
and ancient dogma with its associated buffoonery



D1B is spot on here...

[JoltinJoe]

Any 10 year old can dismantle the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God.

This is really not true.

A 10-year-old can dismantle another 10-year-old's depiction of the Christian God.

When I read things that get said here, it's pretty clear to me that many of you still understand the Christian God the way you did when you were a kid. But if you dig into Christian theology, notably Catholic theology, you might have a dramatically different understanding of what adult Catholics believe.

[D1B]

Any 10 year old can dismantle the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God.

This is really not true.

A 10-year-old can dismantle another 10-year-old's depiction of the Christian God.

When I read things that get said here, it's pretty clear to me that many of you still understand the Christian God the way you did when you were a kid. But if you dig into Christian theology, notably Catholic theology, you might have a dramatically different understanding of what adult Catholics believe.

Not really, Joe.

The Christian God construct has gotten infinitely more absurd as I've grown older and wiser.

On the flip side, my understanding of God has grown stronger.

[kalm]

This is really not true.

A 10-year-old can dismantle another 10-year-old's depiction of the Christian God.

When I read things that get said here, it's pretty clear to me that many of you still understand the Christian God the way you did when you were a kid. But if you dig into Christian theology, notably Catholic theology, you might have a dramatically different understanding of what adult Catholics believe.

Not really, Joe.

The Christian God construct has gotten infinitely more absurd as I've grown older and wiser.

On the flip side, my understanding of God has grown stronger.

I think this is quite possible and a positive sign. We'd all like to think God is a humanist.

[Vidav]

This is really not true.

A 10-year-old can dismantle another 10-year-old's depiction of the Christian God.

When I read things that get said here, it's pretty clear to me that many of you still understand the Christian God the way you did when you were a kid. But if you dig into Christian theology, notably Catholic theology, you might have a dramatically different understanding of what adult Catholics believe.

Not really, Joe.

The Christian God construct has gotten infinitely more absurd as I've grown older and wiser.

On the flip side, my understanding of God has grown stronger.

[Chizzang]

[JoltinJoe]

The easiest way to win an argument is misframe the other's ideas.

[Ivytalk]

I've reserved a room at the Spokumpton Super 8 in the name of Mr. & Mr. D1BJoe.

[Grizalltheway]

The easiest way to win an argument is misframe the other's ideas.

We know, Joe. You've been doing it for years.

[Pwns]

Well said:
That really is the crux of the debate
Its not so much about God (known or unknown / felt or experienced) its about the limited imagination
and ancient dogma with its associated buffoonery



D1B is spot on here...

Interesting...you criticize Christians for knowing little about the Bible and cherrypicking verses but on the other hand you say people have a bronze-age idea of God and not their own. Aren't you the one that used to have "you know your God is made up when he hates the same people you do" in his sig?

If we can question the knowledge of history and science of the people who wrote the Bible, why must they be the ultimate authority on religion or even Christianity itself also? Am I supposed to believe the Jesus of the new testament cares what people do with their genitals or would want someone put to death for working on the sabbath or shaming people who wear multiple fabrics?

[Ivytalk]

Well said:
That really is the crux of the debate
Its not so much about God (known or unknown / felt or experienced) its about the limited imagination
and ancient dogma with its associated buffoonery



D1B is spot on here...

Interesting...you criticize Christians for knowing little about the Bible and cherrypicking verses but on the other hand you say people have a bronze-age idea of God and not their own. Aren't you the one that used to have "you know your God is made up when he hates the same people you do" in his sig?

If we can question the knowledge of history and science of the people who wrote the Bible, why must they be the ultimate authority on religion or even Christianity itself also? Am I supposed to believe the Jesus of the new testament cares what people do with their genitals or would want someone put to death for working on the sabbath or shaming people who wear multiple fabrics?

I agree: people who still wear polyester should be publicly stoned.

[JoltinJoe]

The easiest way to win an argument is misframe the other's ideas.

We know, Joe. You've been doing it for years.

I'll take that as your concession that I've won these arguments.

(The rest is just your excuse).

[Brock Landers]

A lot of folks act as if they follow a religion largely to avoid annoying confrontations over "belief" from other people, more so friends, and even more so family members. It's a real hassle having a swacked out Jesus freak in your face, argument is fruitless, and you do not want to win, you just want to get away.

Boom; spot on. I even have my kids going to church and playing wise men and sheep and shit because I want them to fit in. It's kind of crazy.

At the end of the day, I just don't know what happens when we die. I just try to be decent to other people and have a semiautomatic weapon close by in case shit just doesn't work out.

/thread