For Profit Colleges

[kalm]

You mean someone wanted on educator's performance audited? Oh the horror! I'm glad the Chamber of Commerce, AEI, and ALEC were there to prevent any standards. Hey, who needs regulation when you can use your government loans to pay for lobbyist protection.

Viva la free market!

The spectacular crash of Corinthian Colleges after years of systematically deceiving thousands of students into enrolling into low-quality, high-cost education programs has once again raised questions about how the for-profit college industry staved off stronger rules governing the $1.4 billion per year in federal loans that helped keep Corinthian afloat…..

The listing reveals a number of payments to influential D.C. groups that have battled regulations on the for-profit college industry. The U.S. Chamber of Commere is listed multiple times as a Corinthian creditor. The Chamber has run campaign advertisements on behalf of opponents of the Department of Education’s “gainful employment” regulation, which would measure the performance of vocational programs. The Chamber made defeating the rules a top priority.

Corinthian allegedly lied to students by providing bogus job-placement statistics, misled accrediting agencies by claiming unemployed graduates were employed, and steered students to in-house loans for bachelor’s programs with a price tag as high as $75,384. Though Department of Education rules state that students do not have to make loan payments while attending school, the Miami Herald reported that Corinthian “frequently demanded that its students pay while attending classes” and were publicly shamed through classroom removals if they did not pay.

“This is public money that’s going into a for-profit college, that then is used to fund organizations that do lobbying work and other PR work on behalf of this company,” says Ann Larson, an organizer with the Debt Collective, a group pushing for loan forgiveness for Corinthian students who say they were defrauded. “In the end, Corinthian can file for bankruptcy while tens of thousands of students, most of them low-income, are stuck with this debt.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... n-efforts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CID1990]

You mean someone wanted on educator's performance audited? Oh the horror! I'm glad the Chamber of Commerce, AEI, and ALEC were there to prevent any standards. Hey, who needs regulation when you can use your government loans to pay for lobbyist protection.

Viva la free market!

The spectacular crash of Corinthian Colleges after years of systematically deceiving thousands of students into enrolling into low-quality, high-cost education programs has once again raised questions about how the for-profit college industry staved off stronger rules governing the $1.4 billion per year in federal loans that helped keep Corinthian afloat…..

The listing reveals a number of payments to influential D.C. groups that have battled regulations on the for-profit college industry. The U.S. Chamber of Commere is listed multiple times as a Corinthian creditor. The Chamber has run campaign advertisements on behalf of opponents of the Department of Education’s “gainful employment” regulation, which would measure the performance of vocational programs. The Chamber made defeating the rules a top priority.

Corinthian allegedly lied to students by providing bogus job-placement statistics, misled accrediting agencies by claiming unemployed graduates were employed, and steered students to in-house loans for bachelor’s programs with a price tag as high as $75,384. Though Department of Education rules state that students do not have to make loan payments while attending school, the Miami Herald reported that Corinthian “frequently demanded that its students pay while attending classes” and were publicly shamed through classroom removals if they did not pay.

“This is public money that’s going into a for-profit college, that then is used to fund organizations that do lobbying work and other PR work on behalf of this company,” says Ann Larson, an organizer with the Debt Collective, a group pushing for loan forgiveness for Corinthian students who say they were defrauded. “In the end, Corinthian can file for bankruptcy while tens of thousands of students, most of them low-income, are stuck with this debt.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... n-efforts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone who enrolls in Corinthian, University of Phoenix, EWU or DeVry deserves what they get.

[GannonFan]

I'm glad now that the evil "for profit colleges" have been exposed and defanged that now college tuitions will be perfectly reasonable and affordable as the "not for profit colleges" will make sure not to charge a penny more than they have to in their noble pursuit of educating the next generation of Americans. So when do tuition rates get cut in half for everyone?

[Pwns]

I'm glad now that the evil "for profit colleges" have been exposed and defanged that now college tuitions will be perfectly reasonable and affordable as the "not for profit colleges" will make sure not to charge a penny more than they have to in their noble pursuit of educating the next generation of Americans. So when do tuition rates get cut in half for everyone?

Who is saying that?

I think it's a good start. The federal government doesn't need to give out huge credit lines to anyone with a pulse to attend any institution that has a website.

I'm not saying you give aid only for those attending the top 200 universities, but loaning someone 70 grand to get an online degree in multicultural rainforest studies is a bit like banks giving someone with a 70 grand income a half million dollar mortgage.

[HI54UNI]

How about we get the government out of the college loan business?

[AZGrizFan]

Corinthian allegedly lied to students by providing bogus job-placement statistics, misled accrediting agencies by claiming unemployed graduates were employed, and steered students to in-house loans for bachelor’s programs with a price tag as high as $75,384. Though Department of Education rules state that students do not have to make loan payments while attending school, the Miami Herald reported that Corinthian “frequently demanded that its students pay while attending classes” and were publicly shamed through classroom removals if they did not pay.

Newsflash. $75,000 is cheap for a bachelors degree nowadays.

[GannonFan]

I'm glad now that the evil "for profit colleges" have been exposed and defanged that now college tuitions will be perfectly reasonable and affordable as the "not for profit colleges" will make sure not to charge a penny more than they have to in their noble pursuit of educating the next generation of Americans. So when do tuition rates get cut in half for everyone?

Who is saying that?

I think it's a good start. The federal government doesn't need to give out huge credit lines to anyone with a pulse to attend any institution that has a website.

I'm not saying you give aid only for those attending the top 200 universities, but loaning someone 70 grand to get an online degree in multicultural rainforest studies is a bit like banks giving someone with a 70 grand income a half million dollar mortgage.

There's always been the implication that the problem lies almost solely with the "for profit colleges". Very little is ever said about the "not for profit colleges" where the vast majority of people go and therefore where the vast majority of the debt is being accumulated. Tuitions have climbed quite a bit at those schools, even more than government aid for college loans has increased (although the timing of the cost going up with the availability of loans going up dovetailed together nicely). What we're going with for profit colleges is akin to picking up a single termite and squashing it while you let the whole nest of them continue to eat away at the wood.

[SuperHornet]

Anyone who enrolls in Corinthian, University of Phoenix, EWU or DeVry deserves what they get.

Well played, my friend!

[Skjellyfetti]

There's always been the implication that the problem lies almost solely with the "for profit colleges". Very little is ever said about the "not for profit colleges" where the vast majority of people go and therefore where the vast majority of the debt is being accumulated. Tuitions have climbed quite a bit at those schools, even more than government aid for college loans has increased (although the timing of the cost going up with the availability of loans going up dovetailed together nicely). What we're going with for profit colleges is akin to picking up a single termite and squashing it while you let the whole nest of them continue to eat away at the wood.

Again, nobody is saying that the problem is solely with for profit colleges.

[GannonFan]

There's always been the implication that the problem lies almost solely with the "for profit colleges". Very little is ever said about the "not for profit colleges" where the vast majority of people go and therefore where the vast majority of the debt is being accumulated. Tuitions have climbed quite a bit at those schools, even more than government aid for college loans has increased (although the timing of the cost going up with the availability of loans going up dovetailed together nicely). What we're going with for profit colleges is akin to picking up a single termite and squashing it while you let the whole nest of them continue to eat away at the wood.

Again, nobody is saying that the problem is solely with for profit colleges.

And no one is saying there are any problems with not for profit colleges (assuming such a thing exists). The absence of real complaints towards that larger whale while going after the guppies that are for profit colleges is certainly noticeable. Lobbying does have its benefits of course.

[Skjellyfetti]

How is there an absence of any real complaints about the costs of "not for profit" schools?

One of Obama's biggest speeches of the year was on this exact topic a couple months ago. Granted, no one gives a shit... and we certainly didn't have a thread on it here (it's not about race, abortion, global warming, etc. so noone really gives a shit).

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/natio ... /24723169/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He gave it at Georgia Tech and highlighted their $7,000 Masters in Computer Science program.

It's been one of his biggest issues recently (probably because he oldest is about to enter. )




edit: more info:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/webform/college-opportunity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CID1990]

Anyone who enrolls in Corinthian, University of Phoenix, EWU or DeVry deserves what they get.

Well played, my friend!

That's what you call "nuance"

[kalm]

Well played, my friend!

That's what you call "nuance"

No. No it's really not. But you've got SH on your side...which is nice.

[Skjellyfetti]

Here's another program I saw today that seems to be on a similar model to the Georgia Tech $7,000 MS Computer Science program I posted about earlier:

MBA from University of Illinois for $20,000:

The University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign's College of Business got the green light Monday evening to roll out a new MBA program, dubbed the iMBA, through online education platform Coursera. Over the coming months, the school will put all the courses required for its traditional MBA program on Coursera, free of charge. Students will be able to dabble in select courses or plow through the entire curriculum while earning certificates in such specializations as digital marketing, accounting, and business operations.

Like most free things, however, there's a catch. While all the classes for the MBA will be available online, those who want an actual MBA from the University of Illinois, not just a certificate, will have to apply for admission to the full iMBA program and pay about $20,000 in tuition.

To be sure, $20,000 is still a discount relative to other offerings in the increasingly crowded online business education market. Online MBA programs at established business schools, such as those offered by the Tepper School of Business, Kenan- Flagler Business School, and Olin Graduate School of Business, charge students anywhere from $78,200 to $108,080 for a full MBA. And other schools that have jumped into online business education, such as Harvard Business School, have shared only a sliver of the courses the University of Illinois will release on Coursera.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... e-for-free" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JohnStOnge]

I'm glad now that the evil "for profit colleges" have been exposed and defanged that now college tuitions will be perfectly reasonable and affordable as the "not for profit colleges" will make sure not to charge a penny more than they have to in their noble pursuit of educating the next generation of Americans. So when do tuition rates get cut in half for everyone?

Shockingly, I think your response is at least somewhat similar to mine. I'm a lot more upset by what "mainstream" educational institutions are doing than I am by "for profit" colleges. Everyone knows, or should know, that they need to be cautious with respect to the "for profits."

But nobody ever questions how expensive education is at "mainstream" colleges and universities. They don't ask them to explain why it is REALLY necessary to spend what they spend or charge what they charge. Nobody talks about stepping back and asking about what is really necessary for a college education. To me there is VERY little accountability for "mainstream" colleges and universities in terms of either the education they actually provide or how much they charge for providing it.

[kalm]

I'm glad now that the evil "for profit colleges" have been exposed and defanged that now college tuitions will be perfectly reasonable and affordable as the "not for profit colleges" will make sure not to charge a penny more than they have to in their noble pursuit of educating the next generation of Americans. So when do tuition rates get cut in half for everyone?

Shockingly, I think your response is at least somewhat similar to mine. I'm a lot more upset by what "mainstream" educational institutions are doing than I am by "for profit" colleges. Everyone knows, or should know, that they need to be cautious with respect to the "for profits."

But nobody ever questions how expensive education is at "mainstream" colleges and universities. They don't ask them to explain why it is REALLY necessary to spend what they spend or charge what they charge. Nobody talks about stepping back and asking about what is really necessary for a college education. To me there is VERY little accountability for "mainstream" colleges and universities in terms of either the education they actually provide or how much they charge for providing it.

Yeah, no one has talked about the rise of tuition costs. You and Ganny really need to step out of your news bubble.

The under lying point here that you both missed is the private sector not getting enough ROI on their lobbying to stay solvent.

But yeah privatization!!!

[JohnStOnge]

Yeah, no one has talked about the rise of tuition costs. You and Ganny really need to step out of your news bubble.

I didn't say nobody talks about rising tuition costs. What I'm saying is that the educational establishment doesn't really get questioned about it. The premise seems to be that it's necessary. Nobody puts them on the griddle and starts asking them WHY they have to charge as much as they do or IF the model they have for college education is really a good and/or necessary one. They operate pretty much in a "we trust that you know what you're doing" environment with little independent outside assessment.

[kalm]

Yeah, no one has talked about the rise of tuition costs. You and Ganny really need to step out of your news bubble.

I didn't say nobody talks about rising tuition costs. What I'm saying is that the educational establishment doesn't really get questioned about it. The premise seems to be that it's necessary. Nobody puts them on the griddle and starts asking them WHY they have to charge as much as they do or IF the model they have for college education is really a good and/or necessary one. They operate pretty much in a "we trust that you know what you're doing" environment with little independent outside assessment.

That might happen some places, but I know every institution in the WA state system went through a hiring freeze in 09, and money has been more closely watched ever since.

And you did "nobody ever questions spending..."

[JohnStOnge]

That might happen some places, but I know every institution in the WA state system went through a hiring freeze in 09, and money has been more closely watched ever since.

But has anybody "outside" questioned their basic model for what a college education consists of and what needs to do into that? I'm not just talking about Washington State. I'm talking about the whole thing nationwide. We have a situation in which inflation in the cost of a college education is astronomic. To me it's perfectly reasonable to take a look at the basic model. Look at everything these people say is necessary for saying someone has, for example, been prepared to be an Engineer and see if what's being required is necessary. I STRONGLY suspect that people could be educated for a lot less than what colleges and universities are currently charging.

[kalm]

That might happen some places, but I know every institution in the WA state system went through a hiring freeze in 09, and money has been more closely watched ever since.

But has anybody "outside" questioned their basic model for what a college education consists of and what needs to do into that? I'm not just talking about Washington State. I'm talking about the whole thing nationwide. We have a situation in which inflation in the cost of a college education is astronomic. To me it's perfectly reasonable to take a look at the basic model. Look at everything these people say is necessary for saying someone has, for example, been prepared to be an Engineer and see if what's being required is necessary. I STRONGLY suspect that people could be educated for a lot less than what colleges and universities are currently charging.

I agree and yes it's been questioned.

[Skjellyfetti]

To me there is VERY little accountability for "mainstream" colleges and universities in terms of either the education they actually provide or how much they charge for providing it.

I don't think there's any question about that. To actually become educated - it's simply a matter of how much time you invest, not money. You simply cannot exhaust the completely free, world class classes that are available online. And it's growing every day.

https://www.coursera.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.edx.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://online.stanford.edu/courses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ocw.mit.edu/help/rss/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.extension.harvard.edu/open-l ... initiative" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Recognition of your education is another problem. That's what you're paying for. And, that's what has to be changed.

[Ivytalk]

These "private colleges" are crony capitalism at its worst. There's a well documented link between federal student aid and these schools' bottom lines. Not sad to see them go down in the capital markets.