On MSNBC of all places

[Baldy]

so you know this is some fucked up foreign policy.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqAuY3yOlXs[/youtube]

[andy7171]

Remind me why we are getting bent over the barrel allowing them to get nukes? They don't even talk about peaceful energy anymore.

[houndawg]

Remind me why we are getting bent over the barrel allowing them to get nukes? They don't even talk about peaceful energy anymore.

We sat still for North Korea trading nuclear technology with Pakistan. Why is this suddenly a big deal?

[houndawg]

Remind me why we are getting bent over the barrel allowing them to get nukes? They don't even talk about peaceful energy anymore.

So we can sell weapons to both sides?

[JohnStOnge]

We sat still for North Korea trading nuclear technology with Pakistan. Why is this suddenly a big deal?

I do think Iran getting nukes will be worse. I think that in this case we are dealing with a country that very directly uses what we call "terrorist" groups to engage in proxy attacks and proxy wars. I think there's a real high probability that if Iran gets nukes what we call "terrorists" will get nukes. That would be very, very bad.

[houndawg]

We sat still for North Korea trading nuclear technology with Pakistan. Why is this suddenly a big deal?

I do think Iran getting nukes will be worse. I think that in this case we are dealing with a country that very directly uses what we call "terrorist" groups to engage in proxy attacks and proxy wars. I think there's a real high probability that if Iran gets nukes what we call "terrorists" will get nukes. That would be very, very bad.

For the existence of Iran.

[houndawg]

We sat still for North Korea trading nuclear technology with Pakistan. Why is this suddenly a big deal?

I do think Iran getting nukes will be worse. I think that in this case we are dealing with a country that very directly uses what we call "terrorist" groups to engage in proxy attacks and proxy wars. I think there's a real high probability that if Iran gets nukes what we call "terrorists" will get nukes. That would be very, very bad.

As reliably wrong as you are, I don't see much to worry about. I really don't.

[Grizalltheway]

Remind me why we are getting bent over the barrel allowing them to get nukes? They don't even talk about peaceful energy anymore.

We sat still for North Korea trading nuclear technology with Pakistan. Why is this suddenly a big deal?

Because Israel doesn't give two shits about NK.

[Chizzang]

I like the field reporters candid assessment...
But it brings into question - why are we allies with Saudi Arabia again (somebody remind me)

Oh that's right - the Petrodollar

[polsongrizz]

I like the field reporters candid assessment...
But it brings into question - why are we allies with Saudi Arabia again (somebody remind me)

Oh that's right - the Petrodollar

So we get oil from them, which fuels pretty much everything. What pray tell do we get from israil. Why are they our supposed allies?

[kalm]

I like the field reporters candid assessment...
But it brings into question - why are we allies with Saudi Arabia again (somebody remind me)

Oh that's right - the Petrodollar

So we get oil from them, which fuels pretty much everything. What pray tell do we get from israil. Why are they our supposed allies?

Because they're white…

Like Jesus was...

[CID1990]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

[houndawg]

I like the field reporters candid assessment...
But it brings into question - why are we allies with Saudi Arabia again (somebody remind me)

Oh that's right - the Petrodollar

So we get oil from them, which fuels pretty much everything. What pray tell do we get from israil. Why are they our supposed allies?

We don't need their oil. So we don't need Israel to keep it safe.

[Chizzang]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

[SDHornet]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

I hope I'm alive to see the day that we stop giving a rats ass about that part of the world...I can dream can't I?

[andy7171]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

How very Buchanan like of you. I'm all for it.

[JohnStOnge]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

I think that if we did that there would be a severe economic disturbance that would affect us. I'm not saying that's a slam dunk argument that we shouldn't do it. But I think there would be.

Also, I think Islam is a problem that is going to have to be confronted at some point. I think that if we left that part of the world alone Islam would overtake everything in that part of the world. I do think that Islam calls for all to submit to Islam and at some point it might threaten future generations of Americans if this country is around for long enough. Of course it'd also have to deal with Communist China and Russia so it would have its hands full. But I do think it's a threat.

[Brock Landers]

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

I think that if we did that there would be a severe economic disturbance that would affect us. I'm not saying that's a slam dunk argument that we shouldn't do it. But I think there would be.

Also, I think Islam is a problem that is going to have to be confronted at some point. I think that if we left that part of the world alone Islam would overtake everything in that part of the world. I do think that Islam calls for all to submit to Islam and at some point it might threaten future generations of Americans if this country is around for long enough. Of course it'd also have to deal with Communist China and Russia so it would have its hands full. But I do think it's a threat.

Like, a domino effect? Sounds familiar...

[SuperHornet]

Unless this is a recent accumulation of allies bouncing on us, this is OLD news. Our FIRST ally has been chintzy on us for forty or fifty years. Turkey has been iffy about letting us use their airspace for at least 20 years. Some don't trust Obama, but then, who does? The deal with Iran this month shows that he has no cred whatsoever. But the lack of trust from so-called allies has been going on for decades. It's not all his fault....

[CID1990]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

Ive been on board with that foreign policy strategy for a long time-

Im not saying that to do it better than Obama we need to do a better job of maintaining the status quo- im saying the current admin has screwed the arab spring up royally- and now we are looking at numerous failed states where at least nominally cooperative dictators once kept the peace.

And Europe? Well Europe is another fine hole weve allowed others to dig for us, because we didnt set conditions for membership in NATO- like maintaining a certain amount of military readiness and the ability to project power. So now Germany and Sweden and Norway have all these wonderful social programs that liberals like to point to, but dont realize that it was our own military spending that allowed them to become these progressive utopias.

Russia could overrun half if Europe in two weeks. With help from China they could own the entire hemisphere. And as shaky as things are in the middle east, all it would take is some strategic meddling with Iran (theyre already whispering in ears) ans we'd be literally bled dry.

The alternative- the retreat from world policing that you and I would like to see- cant happen now. We are too far in, we are the ONLY ones with the ability to do anything about these little forest fires.

The President who reverses all of this and hands off the baron to someone else is going to have to be the same guy who convinced Americans that they are going to have to accept a much lower standard of living in exchange for our newfound role as Finland or Luxembourg

So yeah its easy to say "oh yeah we need to stop meddling and fixing and just get out and leave those people to their own devices" but there are domestic consequences to doing so that our Jersey Shore society can neither understand nor tolerate

[kalm]

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

Ive been on board with that foreign policy strategy for a long time-

Im not saying that to do it better than Obama we need to do a better job of maintaining the status quo- im saying the current admin has screwed the arab spring up royally- and now we are looking at numerous failed states where at least nominally cooperative dictators once kept the peace.

And Europe? Well Europe is another fine hole weve allowed others to dig for us, because we didnt set conditions for membership in NATO- like maintaining a certain amount of military readiness and the ability to project power. So now Germany and Sweden and Norway have all these wonderful social programs that liberals like to point to, but dont realize that it was our own military spending that allowed them to become these progressive utopias.

Russia could overrun half if Europe in two weeks. With help from China they could own the entire hemisphere. And as shaky as things are in the middle east, all it would take is some strategic meddling with Iran (theyre already whispering in ears) ans we'd be literally bled dry.

The alternative- the retreat from world policing that you and I would like to see- cant happen now. We are too far in, we are the ONLY ones with the ability to do anything about these little forest fires.

The President who reverses all of this and hands off the baron to someone else is going to have to be the same guy who convinced Americans that they are going to have to accept a much lower standard of living in exchange for our newfound role as Finland or Luxembourg

So yeah its easy to say "oh yeah we need to stop meddling and fixing and just get out and leave those people to their own devices" but there are domestic consequences to doing so that our Jersey Shore society can neither understand nor tolerate

What should we have done with the Arab Spring?

[CID1990]

Ive been on board with that foreign policy strategy for a long time-

Im not saying that to do it better than Obama we need to do a better job of maintaining the status quo- im saying the current admin has screwed the arab spring up royally- and now we are looking at numerous failed states where at least nominally cooperative dictators once kept the peace.

And Europe? Well Europe is another fine hole weve allowed others to dig for us, because we didnt set conditions for membership in NATO- like maintaining a certain amount of military readiness and the ability to project power. So now Germany and Sweden and Norway have all these wonderful social programs that liberals like to point to, but dont realize that it was our own military spending that allowed them to become these progressive utopias.

Russia could overrun half if Europe in two weeks. With help from China they could own the entire hemisphere. And as shaky as things are in the middle east, all it would take is some strategic meddling with Iran (theyre already whispering in ears) ans we'd be literally bled dry.

The alternative- the retreat from world policing that you and I would like to see- cant happen now. We are too far in, we are the ONLY ones with the ability to do anything about these little forest fires.

The President who reverses all of this and hands off the baron to someone else is going to have to be the same guy who convinced Americans that they are going to have to accept a much lower standard of living in exchange for our newfound role as Finland or Luxembourg

So yeah its easy to say "oh yeah we need to stop meddling and fixing and just get out and leave those people to their own devices" but there are domestic consequences to doing so that our Jersey Shore society can neither understand nor tolerate

What should we have done with the Arab Spring?

Absolutely nothing - to include not decapitating Libya and not drawing red lines we never intended to enforce

youre being intentionally dense

[kalm]

What should we have done with the Arab Spring?

Absolutely nothing - to include not decapitating Libya and not drawing red lines we never intended to enforce

youre being intentionally dense

So in the grand scheme of things, that's screwing up the Arab Spring royally?

[houndawg]

So this is what Smart Power looks like

Theyre going to need a shitload of videographers to blame this on

What exactly happens (not being sarcastic) if we don;t actually give a flying frog fart about

Iraq
Iran
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Egypt

and the rest of them...
What happens if we say: Gosh Europe has a problem they need to fix right down there next door
and we just watch..?

We lose a lot of profit from selling weapons to all sides.

[CID1990]

Absolutely nothing - to include not decapitating Libya and not drawing red lines we never intended to enforce

youre being intentionally dense

So in the grand scheme of things, that's screwing up the Arab Spring royally?

Among other more subtle action and inactions, yes.

If you want to start picking semantic hairs (get SK to help you he likes that) be my guest.

Or feel free to defend our actions in the middle east over the last 15 years- Ive said my opinion on it