Help with a definition

[Ibanez]

Duh. It meant free cell phones, getting paid not to work, free healthcare, free prescription drugs, free community college, and all the other free shit our govt. hands out or wants to hand out.

Drones. It also meant drones.

[kalm]

Duh. It meant free cell phones, getting paid not to work, free healthcare, free prescription drugs, free community college, and all the other free shit our govt. hands out or wants to hand out.

Drones. It also meant drones.

And bank bailouts and corn subsidies.

[GannonFan]

Drones. It also meant drones.

And bank bailouts and corn subsidies.

Ethanol, baby, the wave of the future.

[JohnStOnge]

The oldest has a government assignment for his history class. One of the worksheets involves breaking down the Preamble of Constitution and defining each clause and it's purpose.

How would you define "promote the general welfare" and what is it's purpose?

My initial response is to say that it was a phrase stating the reason for why the specific powers subsequently described were to be bestowed. It was not a statement that the national government was to have the power to do anything that might be construed as "promoting the general welfare."

Also, "promote the general welfare" is not the same as "ensure the well being of every individual." It was certainly not an endorsement of the idea that the Federal government is there to attempt to ensure the well being of every individual.

[HI54UNI]

Drones. It also meant drones.

And bank bailouts and corn subsidies.

Subsidized crop insurance for the farmers too.

[kalm]

And bank bailouts and corn subsidies.

Subsidized crop insurance for the farmers too.

Hells yeah.

[Ibanez]

The oldest has a government assignment for his history class. One of the worksheets involves breaking down the Preamble of Constitution and defining each clause and it's purpose.

How would you define "promote the general welfare" and what is it's purpose?

My initial response is to say that it was a phrase stating the reason for why the specific powers subsequently described were to be bestowed. It was not a statement that the national government was to have the power to do anything that might be construed as "promoting the general welfare."

Also, "promote the general welfare" is not the same as "ensure the well being of every individual." It was certainly not an endorsement of the idea that the Federal government is there to attempt to ensure the well being of every individual.

Again.m, it's national not individual benefit.

[JohnStOnge]

Yes. For example:

Building an interstate highway is promoting the general welfare.

Issuing someone an unemployment check or having a check issued under the Medicare program to pay for someone's medical expense is not. Those two things are efforts to ensure the well being of individuals.

I am very confident that those who ratified the original Constitution would not have thought it authorized the Federal government to do things like provide unemployment insurance or Medicare. Same with a lot of other things. That's NOT what they were talking about when they wrote "promote the general welfare" as one of the reasons for establishing the following enumerated powers.

[Skjellyfetti]

They also knew they couldn't anticipate everything - so, left processes to amend the Constitution and made some language very broad.

It's hard to imagine anything being more broad than "general welfare."

[JohnStOnge]

It's hard to imagine anything being more broad than "general welfare."

Again, you have to remember that the reference to "promote the general welfare" was not a Statement that the Government had the power to do anything that one might construe as promoting the general welfare. It was part of a statement of reasons for establishing the Constitution.

The preamble reads:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It then goes on the list the powers of each branch. At no point does it say that any branch has the power to do anything in wants in order to "promote the general welfare."

With respect to the assignment: The "promote the general welfare" clause is not a blanket endorsement of central government power to promote the general welfare. It is simply one of the reasons given for enumerating the powers that are enumerated.

[Skjellyfetti]

Again, you have to remember that the reference to "promote the general welfare" was not a Statement that the Government had the power to do anything that one might construe as promoting the general welfare. It was part of a statement of reasons for establishing the Constitution.

The preamble reads:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It then goes on the list the powers of each branch. At no point does it say that any branch has the power to do anything in wants in order to "promote the general welfare."

The reference to "general welfare" isn't only in the preamble.

The Constitution specifically gives Congress the power to collect taxes to provide for the "general welfare" in Article I, Section 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

As an advocate of a civics test to vote - you should probably read the Constitution before you end up voting to take away your right to vote.

[Baldy]

Again, you have to remember that the reference to "promote the general welfare" was not a Statement that the Government had the power to do anything that one might construe as promoting the general welfare. It was part of a statement of reasons for establishing the Constitution.

The preamble reads:



It then goes on the list the powers of each branch. At no point does it say that any branch has the power to do anything in wants in order to "promote the general welfare."

The reference to "general welfare" isn't only in the preamble.

The Constitution specifically gives Congress the power to collect taxes to provide for the "general welfare" in Article I, Section 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

As an advocate of a civics test to vote - you should probably read the Constitution before you end up voting to take away your right to vote.

And you need to read the Federalist Papers. General Welfare dealt with exclusively the items in Article I Section 8...hence the reason for the 10th amendment.

[Skjellyfetti]

And you need to read the Federalist Papers. General Welfare dealt with exclusively the items in Article I Section 8...hence the reason for the 10th amendment.

Which Federalist Paper? Madison will agree with you. Hamilton will agree with me (see: Federalist 30 and Federalist 34).

The question of federalism is the debate that has been at the heart of our political discourse since our political discourse started. If 200+ years of political arguing (and the bloodiest war in American history) haven't solved it - we're not going to solve much of anything on this message board. We simply disagree.

[JohnStOnge]

As an advocate of a civics test to vote - you should probably read the Constitution before you end up voting to take away your right to vote.

I have read the Constitution a number of times. Promoting OR providing for the general welfare is not attempting to ensure the well being of each individual. Article 8 does not give the Congress the power to do anything it thinks would promote the general welfare. It says that Congress can "lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises" in order, in part, to finance promoting the general welfare through the exercise of its enumerated powers.

This idea that the Constitution legitimately gives the Federal Government in general or Congress in particular the power to do anything it wants to do based on the argument that what it wants to do "promotes the general welfare" is total crap.

And I do support a Civics test to vote. It doesn't need to get this far into the weeds though. I'd go for something like this:

Name the three branches of the Federal government

Name one Justice on the current Supreme Court

Name the Vice President of the United States

Which political party currently has the majority in the House of Representatives

Which political party currently has the majority in the Senate

Just require that anybody who votes can answer all five of those questions correctly and I'm confident the Democrats would never win another national election. Sadly, it could be that the majority who would vote on either side if eligible could not answer all of them correctly. But I am VERY confident that the Democratic Party would be hurt WAY more by requiring that even so rudimentary a set of questions as that be answered correctly in order to vote. No more relying on dragging out the "Zombie Vote" in order to get over the top.

[houndawg]

Duh. It meant free cell phones, getting paid not to work, free healthcare, free prescription drugs, free community college, and all the other free **** our govt. hands out or wants to hand out.

Including an enormous standing Army and lots of foreign entanglements to keep them busy.

[houndawg]

The oldest has a government assignment for his history class. One of the worksheets involves breaking down the Preamble of Constitution and defining each clause and it's purpose.

How would you define "promote the general welfare" and what is it's purpose?

My initial response is to say that it was a phrase stating the reason for why the specific powers subsequently described were to be bestowed. It was not a statement that the national government was to have the power to do anything that might be construed as "promoting the general welfare."

Also, "promote the general welfare" is not the same as "ensure the well being of every individual." It was certainly not an endorsement of the idea that the Federal government is there to attempt to ensure the well being of every individual.

Thank you for sharing.

[houndawg]

As an advocate of a civics test to vote - you should probably read the Constitution before you end up voting to take away your right to vote.

I have read the Constitution a number of times. Promoting OR providing for the general welfare is not attempting to ensure the well being of each individual. Article 8 does not give the Congress the power to do anything it thinks would promote the general welfare. It says that Congress can "lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises" in order, in part, to finance promoting the general welfare through the exercise of its enumerated powers.

This idea that the Constitution legitimately gives the Federal Government in general or Congress in particular the power to do anything it wants to do based on the argument that what it wants to do "promotes the general welfare" is total crap.

And I do support a Civics test to vote. It doesn't need to get this far into the weeds though. I'd go for something like this:

Name the three branches of the Federal government

Name one Justice on the current Supreme Court

Name the Vice President of the United States

Which political party currently has the majority in the House of Representatives

Which political party currently has the majority in the Senate

Just require that anybody who votes can answer all five of those questions correctly and I'm confident the Democrats would never win another national election. Sadly, it could be that the majority who would vote on either side if eligible could not answer all of them correctly. But I am VERY confident that the Democratic Party would be hurt WAY more by requiring that even so rudimentary a set of questions as that be answered correctly in order to vote. No more relying on dragging out the "Zombie Vote" in order to get over the top.

Thats because they'd be making too much money outside selling little cards with the answers on them to the tea party crowd.

[CID1990]

Sorry it took me so long to join in on this, I was off dealing with Boko Haram.



It means borrowing money from China to pay Americans not to work.



/thread