The Vaccine Thing

[JohnStOnge]

Bottom line:

No, government should not be forcing people to get vaccinated for anything nor should they be forcing parents to have their children vaccinated if they don't want to. Individual liberty is more important than the calculated well being of the collective.

Also, I have been shaking my head for days now watching media people who aren't sophisticated enough to even understand what Rand Paul said and can't even pronounce "temporally" ragging on him. They have NO clue.

Seriously. I am not exaggerating when I say that I have heard numerous reports on Rand Paul explaining the difference between saying that things are temporally associated in certain instances and saying there is cause and effect and NEVER even heard the word "temporally" pronounced correctly. It was really bad. They were being all critical of him and they had no idea as to what he was even saying.

[kalm]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/ ... /22778303/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pwns]

I also love how the typical vaccine refusers are being portrayed as fundamentalist types.


Most of them are whole foods-shopping, homeopathic medicine using, organic food-eating, big-pharma-is-poisoning-us dunderheads. Not all of them are liberal, but many are and they are not fundamentalists.

BTW, Mississippi of all states has the lowest rate of vaccine refusals. Bet you didn't think they could be first in anything good.

[kalm]

Sen. Rand Paul gave false and misleading statements about vaccine safety in two separate interviews, including a claim that “many” children have developed “profound mental disorders” after vaccinations.
There is no evidence that any currently recommended vaccine causes brain damage or other mental disorders in otherwise healthy children. Severe reactions do occur but are extremely rare.
Vaccine safety has become a central topic in recent weeks as a measles outbreak that began at Disneyland in California has spread. Between Jan. 1 and Jan. 30, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that 102 people had confirmed cases of measles, a disease that the CDC declared “eliminated” from the United States in 2000 because of the highly effective vaccine. In recent years, a small but growing number of parents have avoided the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine because of fears related to debunked and fraudulent science.
Paul, a Republican from Kentucky who is considering a 2016 presidential bid and who also formerly was a practicing physician, said on CNBC that vaccines could cause serious problems in children.
Paul, Feb. 2: I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.

The senator’s office was unable to provide a single example of a vaccine causing a mental disorder; nor did his office provide any information on the specific type or types of mental disorders or vaccines that caused disorders to which Paul was referring. We contacted several experts on immunizations, however, and all of them agreed that there are no such links between common vaccines and mental disorders.
SciCHECKinsert“The comments made by Rand Paul are worrisome, as they don’t seem to be based on scientific data,” said Marietta Vazquez, an associate professor of pediatrics at Yale University School of Medicine and a member of the U.S. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a group convened by the CDC to advise on vaccines. “Indeed, there are no reported cases of profound mental disorders that I know of.”
There have been some reports of “lowered consciousness” or permanent brain damage after a vaccine is given for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) or measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), but the CDC says that these are so rare that a cause-and-effect relationship cannot be determined.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/paul-r ... ne-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Vidav]

Why is individual liberty more important than the well being of the collective? I would strongly argue the opposite.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Socialist

[CID1990]

I absolutely HEART this whole controversy....

A lot of anti-vaxxers are as Pwns said-- nanny state upper middle class liberals. Seeing them get the shout down pariah treatment on this is so rich I wish I could bottle their tears and garnish my martinis with them

Seriously, I hope I have adequately conveyed the ecstatic pleasure this gives me.


BTW of COURSE I am not an anti-vaxxer. I'm against the liberal use of antibiotics, but I don't see the evidence for autism caused by viral vaccines that some others see.

[Baldy]

Why the 'Prius Driving, Composting' Set Fears Vaccines

Q: But why liberals?

S.M.: I think it taps into the organic natural movement in a lot of ways.

I talked to a public health official and asked him what's the best way to anticipate where there might be higher than normal rates of vaccine noncompliance, and he said take a map and put a pin wherever there's a Whole Foods. I sort of laughed, and he said, "No, really, I'm not joking." It's those communities with the Prius driving, composting, organic food-eating people.

Anti-Science Donks.

[93henfan]

I absolutely HEART this whole controversy....

A lot of anti-vaxxers are as Pwns said-- nanny state upper middle class liberals. Seeing them get the shout down pariah treatment on this is so rich I wish I could bottle their tears and garnish my martinis with them

Seriously, I hope I have adequately conveyed the ecstatic pleasure this gives me.


BTW of COURSE I am not an anti-vaxxer. I'm against the liberal use of antibiotics, but I don't see the evidence for autism caused by viral vaccines that some others see.

Maybe that's because you don't have a child with autism?

Of COURSE every study is going to say there's no link. The government and big pharma are funding the studies and they are the power clique that wants to keep selling vaccines (and ADHD meds and antidepressants and behavioral therapy and occupational therapy and....).

Ever notice that there are more pharmacies than gas stations in a lot of towns now?

[Vidav]

I absolutely HEART this whole controversy....

A lot of anti-vaxxers are as Pwns said-- nanny state upper middle class liberals. Seeing them get the shout down pariah treatment on this is so rich I wish I could bottle their tears and garnish my martinis with them

Seriously, I hope I have adequately conveyed the ecstatic pleasure this gives me.


BTW of COURSE I am not an anti-vaxxer. I'm against the liberal use of antibiotics, but I don't see the evidence for autism caused by viral vaccines that some others see.

Maybe that's because you don't have a child with autism?

Of COURSE every study is going to say there's no link. The government and big pharma are funding the studies and they are the power clique that wants to keep selling vaccines (and ADHD meds and antidepressants and behavioral therapy and occupational therapy and....).

Ever notice that there are more pharmacies than gas stations in a lot of towns now?

There is no connection between vaccines and autism. The original study that claimed it was shown to be falsified and the Dr in charge lost his medical license.

People with autistic kids want answer to why their child has this terrible problem but unfortunately there just isn't one right now. Blaming something that saves lives is not going to help.

[Ibanez]

I absolutely HEART this whole controversy....

A lot of anti-vaxxers are as Pwns said-- nanny state upper middle class liberals. Seeing them get the shout down pariah treatment on this is so rich I wish I could bottle their tears and garnish my martinis with them

Seriously, I hope I have adequately conveyed the ecstatic pleasure this gives me.


BTW of COURSE I am not an anti-vaxxer. I'm against the liberal use of antibiotics, but I don't see the evidence for autism caused by viral vaccines that some others see.

Maybe that's because you don't have a child with autism?

Of COURSE every study is going to say there's no link. The government and big pharma are funding the studies and they are the power clique that wants to keep selling vaccines (and ADHD meds and antidepressants and behavioral therapy and occupational therapy and....).

Ever notice that there are more pharmacies than gas stations in a lot of towns now?

The research that sparked this entire controversy has been debunked, the scientists have recanted/had their licenses revoked. It's like climate science, initial research to prove it was done incorrectly/falsified. When you redefine Downs and Autism, you're going to see a correlation in the spike/decrease of children being afflicted with it.

http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org/ ... cines.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The results of studies are very clear; the data show no relationship between vaccines and autism.

Autism sucks, but let's not trust a bunch of crooked scientist who have admitted to defrauding the public and a Playboy Bunny, with the health of our children.

[Ibanez]

Maybe that's because you don't have a child with autism?

Of COURSE every study is going to say there's no link. The government and big pharma are funding the studies and they are the power clique that wants to keep selling vaccines (and ADHD meds and antidepressants and behavioral therapy and occupational therapy and....).

Ever notice that there are more pharmacies than gas stations in a lot of towns now?

There is no connection between vaccines and autism. The original study that claimed it was shown to be falsified and the Dr in charge lost his medical license.

People with autistic kids want answer to why their child has this terrible problem but unfortunately there just isn't one right now. Blaming something that saves lives is not going to help.

I blame George Bush.

[93henfan]

I'm glad that you two PhD's have it all figured out.

So man is not causing global temperatures to rise and there's no chance that heavy doses of vaccines given to my son (or with his brother who had his vaccines minimized and delayed and sequenced over several years and doesn't have autism) have anything to do with autism.

Thanks for clearing it all up doctors.

[93henfan]

Also, the stereotyping in the thread of liberal, upper middle class, organic food shopper...

I'm none of those. I do believe that big pharma and the food industry would feed their shit to their own mothers if it drove profits though. They don't give a flying fuck about health, unless it means mo money.

[Ibanez]

I'm glad that you two PhD's have it all figured out.

Just reporting the facts.

In the 1970's and 80's it was thought that vaccines caused Guillain Barre Syndrome. When I contracted GBS, that's what my parents were told. Science is telling us a different story these days.

[andy7171]

My militant vegan brother and his wife used to be anti-Vaxxers. The county school system told them to pound sand with their "religious exceptions" story, my poor nephew had to get a shit ton of shots one day before his first day of kindergarten.

Is it wrong to question the influx of central american minors for this outbreak? The early morning news was talking about that this morning on my way in.

[93henfan]

I'm glad that you two PhD's have it all figured out.

Just reporting the facts.

In the 1970's and 80's it was thought that vaccines caused Guillain Barre Syndrome. When I contracted GBS, that's what my parents were told. Science is telling us a different story these days.

The facts.

As verified by the CDC and the FDA. They're not influenced by big pharma and big farm at all.

[Ibanez]

I'm glad that you two PhD's have it all figured out.

So man is not causing global temperatures to rise and there's no chance that heavy doses of vaccines given to my son (or with his brother who had his vaccines minimized and delayed and sequenced over several years and doesn't have autism) have anything to do with autism.

Thanks for clearing it all up doctors.

Man is definitely contributing to global warming and vaccines aren't 100% safe. But there's research that doesn't support the vaccine link.

[Ibanez]

Just reporting the facts.

In the 1970's and 80's it was thought that vaccines caused Guillain Barre Syndrome. When I contracted GBS, that's what my parents were told. Science is telling us a different story these days.

The facts.

Well, the facts as science has proven. Wasn't the use of thimerosal vaccines in the MMR vaccine, the culprit in those early studies? And now, since the early 2000s, it's been removed.

My wife and I talked to many doctors, liberal nut jobs, etc... before we our kid received her first round of vaccines. Accidents happen and I know a vaccine can have an unintended consequence (DTaP is the cause of my having Guillian Barre) but the science has come a long way since that first study in the late 80's.

[93henfan]

I'm glad that you two PhD's have it all figured out.

So man is not causing global temperatures to rise and there's no chance that heavy doses of vaccines given to my son (or with his brother who had his vaccines minimized and delayed and sequenced over several years and doesn't have autism) have anything to do with autism.

Thanks for clearing it all up doctors.

Man is definitely contributing to global warming and vaccines aren't 100% safe. But there's research that doesn't support the vaccine link.

But you just said the science is too complex to draw any conclusions awhile ago?

Is it only conclusive when it's convenient to support your side?

[YoUDeeMan]

Why is individual liberty more important than the well being of the collective? I would strongly argue the opposite.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwBO39CuicM[/youtube]

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Also, the stereotyping in the thread of liberal, upper middle class, organic food shopper...

I'm none of those. I do believe that big pharma and the food industry would feed their shit to their own mothers if it drove profits though. They don't give a flying fuck about health, unless it means mo money.

I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately, big money and the power that comes with it can muddy the waters as it comes to identifying the truth. Do vaccines increase the chances of autism? I don't know, but I also don't put total credence into a "scientific study" unless I know exactly how it was funded. Call me cynical if you want.

[Ibanez]

Man is definitely contributing to global warming and vaccines aren't 100% safe. But there's research that doesn't support the vaccine link.

But you just said the science is too complex to draw any conclusions awhile ago?

Is it only conclusive when it's convenient to support your side?

When did I ever say that? I get that you want answers. But, holy hell, the Autism Society of America, on thier page of causes, never once mentions vaccines.

http://www.autism-society.org/what-is/causes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is no known single cause for autism spectrum disorder, but it is generally accepted that it is caused by abnormalities in brain structure or function. Brain scans show differences in the shape and structure of the brain in children with autism compared to in neurotypical children. Researchers do not know the exact cause of autism but are investigating a number of theories, including the links among heredity, genetics and medical problems.

In many families, there appears to be a pattern of autism or related disabilities, further supporting the theory that the disorder has a genetic basis. While no one gene has been identified as causing autism, researchers are searching for irregular segments of genetic code that children with autism may have inherited. It also appears that some children are born with a susceptibility to autism, but researchers have not yet identified a single “trigger” that causes autism to develop.

Other researchers are investigating the possibility that under certain conditions, a cluster of unstable genes may interfere with brain development, resulting in autism. Still other researchers are investigating problems during pregnancy or delivery as well as environmental factors such as viral infections, metabolic imbalances and exposure to chemicals.

It appears that vaccines could be a trigger, but that doesn't make them the cause.

[93henfan]

And let me add one other thing. I totally understand why CDC and FDA are so adamant about vaccines not causing autism. The risk of the whole country demanding we not vaccinate is too great. We need vaccines. I'm not anti-vaccine, and like I said, we still had our second son vaccinated when we were already aware that our first son was on the autism spectrum (he was diagnosed at 18 months). We just had every aspect of the vaccines (dosages, frequency, etc) reduced to the max amount allowable by law that would still allow him to attend public school.

[Ibanez]

And let me add one other thing. I totally understand why CDC and FDA are so adamant about vaccines not causing autism. The risk of the whole country demanding we not vaccinate is too great. We need vaccines. I'm not anti-vaccine, and like I said, we still had our second son vaccinated when we were already aware that our first son was on the autism spectrum (he was diagnosed at 18 months). We just had every aspect of the vaccines (dosages, frequency, etc) reduced to the max amount allowable by law that would still allow him to attend public school.

We're doing the same thing. My 4 month old is on schedule for her next round next week. We're doing the bare minimum. That's a lot of stuff being put into a young, weak immune system.