Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Political discussions
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It's been a while but I have watched him many times over my lifetime. He used to be on PBS all the time. That's why I wrote what I wrote about him. He adopts this REALLY thoughtful persona like he's REALLY being "intellectual" then makes it obvious that he's a total hack.

I mean really. To me anybody who takes that guy seriously needs to re-assess.
Hack? :rofl:
In progressiveland, Moyers is a god and one must genuflect in his presence, but in the real world he's just another run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical. :coffee:
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25486
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Klam. You're talking about Klam, right?
Image
Not at all. It just described you so well. If it had been posted in a "guess the CS member" thread, we all would have said, "Klam"
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Image
Not at all. It just described you so well. If it had been posted in a "guess the CS member" thread, we all would have said, "Klam"
It would help if you and Baldy knew what the actual definition of political hack was.

Second, feel free to attack the case Moyers makes here.

:kisswink:
Image
Image
Image
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Not at all. It just described you so well. If it had been posted in a "guess the CS member" thread, we all would have said, "Klam"
It would help if you and Baldy knew what the actual definition of political hack was.

Second, feel free to attack the case Moyers makes here.

:kisswink:
Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Ivytalk »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
It would help if you and Baldy knew what the actual definition of political hack was.

Second, feel free to attack the case Moyers makes here.

:kisswink:
Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like
Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Sanctimonious Left-wing hack, cloaked in the garb of ordained Baptist minister and PR guy for LBJ.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
It would help if you and Baldy knew what the actual definition of political hack was.

Second, feel free to attack the case Moyers makes here.

:kisswink:
Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Oops, sorry. It was JSO. And again, look up the definition of political hack. Paul Begala would be an example of a left wing hack.

Ivy... :ohno:

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya that you guys don't like Moyers! :lol:
Image
Image
Image
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Oops, sorry. It was JSO. And again, look up the definition of political hack. Paul Begala would be an
example of a left wing hack.

Ivy... :ohno:

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya that you guys don't like Moyers! :lol:
I'll see your Paul Begala and raise you a Bob Beckel. :coffee:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Oops, sorry. It was JSO. And again, look up the definition of political hack. Paul Begala would be an
example of a left wing hack.

Ivy... :ohno:

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya that you guys don't like Moyers! :lol:
I'll see your Paul Begala and raise you a Bob Beckel. :coffee:
You mean the token on Fox? I liked old Bob back when he'd appear on the Pat Buchanon Show.

And you still don't know what a hack is.
Image
Image
Image
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
I'll see your Paul Begala and raise you a Bob Beckel. :coffee:
You mean the token on Fox? I liked old Bob back when he'd appear on the Pat Buchanon Show.

And you still don't know what a hack is.
I'm exchanging witty repartees with one right now. :coffee:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Oops, sorry. It was JSO. And again, look up the definition of political hack. Paul Begala would be an example of a left wing hack.

Ivy... :ohno:

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya that you guys don't like Moyers! :lol:
There is a difference between a political hack and a hack journalist.
In the journalism sense, Moyers is definitely a hack...a very good one at that. :nod:

And I'm just as shocked...Shocked! that you think Moyers is a legitimate journalist. :lol:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Oops, sorry. It was JSO. And again, look up the definition of political hack. Paul Begala would be an example of a left wing hack.

Ivy... :ohno:

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya that you guys don't like Moyers! :lol:
There is a difference between a political hack and a hack journalist.
In the journalism sense, Moyers is definitely a hack...a very good one at that. :nod:

And I'm just as shocked...Shocked! that you think Moyers is a legitimate journalist. :lol:
Still wrong... :lol:
Image
Image
Image
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: There is a difference between a political hack and a hack journalist.
In the journalism sense, Moyers is definitely a hack...a very good one at that. :nod:

And I'm just as shocked...Shocked! that you think Moyers is a legitimate journalist. :lol:
Still wrong... :lol:
No, but you knew that already. :lol:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
You mean the token on Fox? I liked old Bob back when he'd appear on the Pat Buchanon Show.

And you still don't know what a hack is.
I'm exchanging witty repartees with one right now. :coffee:
Covering up your mistakes with grandiloquence... :ohno:
Image
Image
Image
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Baldy »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
You mean the token on Fox? I liked old Bob back when he'd appear on the Pat Buchanon Show.

And you still don't know what a hack is.
I'm exchanging witty repartees with one right now. :coffee:
Actually, you're taking one to school right now. :nod:
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by houndawg »

Ivytalk wrote:
Baldy wrote: Sigh....

I didn't call Moyers a hack above, just a run-of-the-mill 60's has been radical.
However, Cid is spot on...he is a guy who paraded around as a legitimate journalist, but was actually (like
Rather) a far left-wing hack with an agenda. :tothehand:
Sanctimonious Left-wing hack, cloaked in the garb of ordained Baptist minister and PR guy for LBJ.
Its just a cover. Moyers is with the Bilderberg Group...... you won't realize until its too late.
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by Ivytalk »

houndawg wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Sanctimonious Left-wing hack, cloaked in the garb of ordained Baptist minister and PR guy for LBJ.
Its just a cover. Moyers is with the Bilderberg Group...... you won't realize until its too late.
Speaking of left wing hacks, look who just showed up! :lol:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by JohnStOnge »

With respect to this quote from the article:
Tax collections fell off a cliff after the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts.
You know, something unanticipated happened in 2001. It's reasonable to believe that something had a severe adverse economic impact. If the idea of tax cuts is that it will cause more economic activity and thereby generate more tax revenue, it's kind of hard to say that such an idea was "disproven" by a economic downturn when something unanticipated and historically unprecedented happens to cause an economic downturn. Under such circumstances you can say that revenues declined. But you can't say that they would not have declined even more if the tax cuts hadn't been put into place. You don't really know one way or another. You can have economists offer opinions on what may have happened without the tax cuts one way or another. But you can't know.

Now look at the graphic below. Notice that there is an uptick in revenue during 2004 through 2007. So how is it that the authors are said "Tax collections fell off the cliff" after the 2003 tax cuts? Here, assuming the revenue numbers are correct, we CAN know. And what we know from those numbers is that revenues CLIMBED immediately after 2003. And they continued to climb until, it looks to me, about the time we had the big economic crash around 2008.

So once gain, liberal pundits are shown to be totally full of crap. As though people aren't going to actually look at the graphic they presented and see if it really supports what they say...which this one does not with respect to 2003...and have memories good enough to remember things like the 9/11/2001 attacks being associated with a dramatic economic downturn. Also as though people can't read graphs like the below that indicates that the declining trend in revenue that ended around 2004 started before George W. Bush's tax cuts were effected.

Image

Mothers, don't let your babies grow up to take people like Bill Moyers and those who would associate with him seriously.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:With respect to this quote from the article:
Tax collections fell off a cliff after the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts.
You know, something unanticipated happened in 2001. It's reasonable to believe that something had a severe adverse economic impact. If the idea of tax cuts is that it will cause more economic activity and thereby generate more tax revenue, it's kind of hard to say that such an idea was "disproven" by a economic downturn when something unanticipated and historically unprecedented happens to cause an economic downturn. Under such circumstances you can say that revenues declined. But you can't say that they would not have declined even more if the tax cuts hadn't been put into place. You don't really know one way or another. You can have economists offer opinions on what may have happened without the tax cuts one way or another. But you can't know.

Now look at the graphic below. Notice that there is an uptick in revenue during 2004 through 2007. So how is it that the authors are said "Tax collections fell off the cliff" after the 2003 tax cuts? Here, assuming the revenue numbers are correct, we CAN know. And what we know from those numbers is that revenues CLIMBED immediately after 2003. And they continued to climb until, it looks to me, about the time we had the big economic crash around 2008.

So once gain, liberal pundits are shown to be totally full of crap. As though people aren't going to actually look at the graphic they presented and see if it really supports what they say...which this one does not with respect to 2003...and have memories good enough to remember things like the 9/11/2001 attacks being associated with a dramatic economic downturn. Also as though people can't read graphs like the below that indicates that the declining trend in revenue that ended around 2004 started before George W. Bush's tax cuts were effected.

Image

Mothers, don't let your babies grow up to take people like Bill Moyers and those who would associate with him seriously.
You just proved why dynamic scoring doesn't work. You can thank Moyers now. :lol:
Image
Image
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Still wrong... :lol:
No, but you knew that already. :lol:
Moyers is journistic giant if for nothing else than the Joseph Campbell series.

Conks.... :lol:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by JohnStOnge »

You just proved why dynamic scoring doesn't work. You can thank Moyers now.
I don't need Moyers to tell me that nobody can predict what Federal revenues are going to do whether they use dynamic scoring or anything else. I don't think there's any doubt that the concept behind dynamic scoring is reasonable. It's reasonable to think that tax rates do affect the economy and it'd be great to be able to precisely predict the effects. But it's not possible.

One thing that has amused me for years is how both political parties will point to predictions with respect to what's going to happen with the budget and the deficit and how they are NEVER correct. I've posted before about how I think it's laughable to act like the CBO is a credible entity in terms of predictions because they NEVER get it right.

It's understandable because the nature of the beast is that it's unpredictable. The CBO can't possibly anticipate everything that's going to happen that will be a factor and neither can anybody else.

To me the reason for cutting taxes is a moral one. We shouldn't have a system that specializes in taxing the hell out of successful people in order to give things to unsuccessful people. To me the whole concept of people who make more paying more is obscene. People accept that as a "given" but they shouldn't. We should not have a system where the yoke is put on 20% or less of the population to carry the load for the whole group.

What's needed is a radical adjustment in how people view the role of government leading to a radical reduction in how much government spends.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
You just proved why dynamic scoring doesn't work. You can thank Moyers now.
I don't need Moyers to tell me that nobody can predict what Federal revenues are going to do whether they use dynamic scoring or anything else. I don't think there's any doubt that the concept behind dynamic scoring is reasonable. It's reasonable to think that tax rates do affect the economy and it'd be great to be able to precisely predict the effects. But it's not possible.

One thing that has amused me for years is how both political parties will point to predictions with respect to what's going to happen with the budget and the deficit and how they are NEVER correct. I've posted before about how I think it's laughable to act like the CBO is a credible entity in terms of predictions because they NEVER get it right.

It's understandable because the nature of the beast is that it's unpredictable. The CBO can't possibly anticipate everything that's going to happen that will be a factor and neither can anybody else.

To me the reason for cutting taxes is a moral one. We shouldn't have a system that specializes in taxing the hell out of successful people in order to give things to unsuccessful people. To me the whole concept of people who make more paying more is obscene. People accept that as a "given" but they shouldn't. We should not have a system where the yoke is put on 20% or less of the population to carry the load for the whole group.

What's needed is a radical adjustment in how people view the role of government leading to a radical reduction in how much government spends.
We're all in this together, John and people benefit greatly to varying degrees from our form of government and all the resources we have. It is indeed about morals... :roll:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by JohnStOnge »

We're all in this together,
It's gotten to the point where, in this country, that's what people say when they fail and want the society to bail them out.

The problem is that we're not really all in this together. We're in a situation where 20% or less of the population is carrying the load. The rest are "in this together" only in that they are enjoying the benefits of having the government hook the 20% or less who are pulling the load to the wagon and going along for the ride.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by houndawg »

Ivytalk wrote:
houndawg wrote:
Its just a cover. Moyers is with the Bilderberg Group...... you won't realize until its too late.
Speaking of left wing hacks, look who just showed up! :lol:

..how sharper than a serpent's tooth... :tothehand:
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by houndawg »

JohnStOnge wrote:
You just proved why dynamic scoring doesn't work. You can thank Moyers now.
I don't need Moyers to tell me that nobody can predict what Federal revenues are going to do whether they use dynamic scoring or anything else. I don't think there's any doubt that the concept behind dynamic scoring is reasonable. It's reasonable to think that tax rates do affect the economy and it'd be great to be able to precisely predict the effects. But it's not possible.

One thing that has amused me for years is how both political parties will point to predictions with respect to what's going to happen with the budget and the deficit and how they are NEVER correct. I've posted before about how I think it's laughable to act like the CBO is a credible entity in terms of predictions because they NEVER get it right.

It's understandable because the nature of the beast is that it's unpredictable. The CBO can't possibly anticipate everything that's going to happen that will be a factor and neither can anybody else.

To me the reason for cutting taxes is a moral one. We shouldn't have a system that specializes in taxing the hell out of successful people in order to give things to unsuccessful people. To me the whole concept of people who make more paying more is obscene. People accept that as a "given" but they shouldn't. We should not have a system where the yoke is put on 20% or less of the population to carry the load for the whole group.

What's needed is a radical adjustment in how people view the role of government leading to a radical reduction in how much government spends.
You're a selfish man, John. :ohno:
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69139
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Still Trying to Make Trickle Down Work

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
We're all in this together,
It's gotten to the point where, in this country, that's what people say when they fail and want the society to bail them out.

The problem is that we're not really all in this together. We're in a situation where 20% or less of the population is carrying the load. The rest are "in this together" only in that they are enjoying the benefits of having the government hook the 20% or less who are pulling the load to the wagon and going along for the ride.
No, many extremely successful people believe this too. :dunce:
Image
Image
Image
Post Reply