FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

What do a mostly white team and unimaginative uni combo's have to do with a winning formula?
Probably shouldn't continue down that road as I'm about to but, though I don't think this is what he was talking about, I'd say that most football fans and coaches would say you can't be as "White" as North Dakota State is and win national championships if it hadn't just happened four times in a row. Kind of the same principle as when Bear Bryant got beat by USC and realized he had to start getting Black players.

There's a reason it's like it is most of the time. The reason you see most successful college football team rosters being majority Black is because Blacks are faster, quicker, and capable of more explosive movement on average and that also translates to the high end of the performance distribution. People aren't going out looking for Black football players because they're Black. They're looking for guys with speed, quickness, and explosive movement so they end up with a lot of Black players.

I don't think it's any coincidence, for example, that Louisiana is the top State in terms of NFL player production and also happens to have a percent Black population more than twice the overall national percentage (32.4% vs. 13.2%).

NDSU is an exception to that trend. I don't think it's intentional on their part. They're not saying, "we don't want Black players." I think it's a function of where they're located. But obviously they've managed to win regardless.

Even though you also see a little "bias" in even NDSU's roster, I think. I looked at a photo of their team last year and tried to identify whether players were Black so I could see where they stand percentage wise. Can't remember the specific number but their percent Black was about what the US population percent Black was. Somewhere close to that 13% number. And they're in a part of the country that doesn't have a lot of Blacks proportionately. If you look at North Dakota and the States adjacent to it North Dakota is 1.8% Black, Minnesota is 5.7% Black, South Dakota is 1.9% Black, Wyoming is 1.7% Black, and Montana is 0.6% Black. If you go out to the "second ring" of States surrounding North Dakota you're looking at Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, and Idaho. You'll get the same kinds of percentages there.

So NDSU is in just about as "non Black" a spot as one can get in the United States. So having about 13 or 15% of their roster Black is having a disproportionately Black roster relative to the population in their vicinity by a factor of maybe 3 or 4 times the percentage you'd expect if you just randomly selected a number of college aged males from that area of the country.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by CSUBUCDAD »

That was one hell of good game. Best final I have seen in years.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by 93henfan »

JohnStOnge wrote:The reason you see most successful college football team rosters being majority Black is because Blacks are faster, quicker, and capable of more explosive movement on average and that also translates to the high end of the performance distribution.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

BDKJMU wrote:What's great game. Congrats to NDSU. ISU chokes it away. Even through I love NDSU's old school smash mouth style of NDSU's play, I was pulling for ISU to see someone else win it for a change.

NDSU's offense looks like something out of 30-40 years ago. A combination of things you don't see much of anymore:
-mostly white team
-hardly any transfers (they did have the backup TB from Nebraska, last year an NDSU poster said none).
-with usually a huddle, non hurry up, QB under center, usally FB in power I and/or 2 TE, smash mouth, not this new age no huddle, hurry up, shotgun spread (I see NDSU does that a little now, but still mostly smash mouth).
-not a million uniform combos, wearing black when it's not one of your school colors. I've only seen 3 different ones on them.
They've certainly proved all of it to be a winning formula.

So when in the fall is the rematch?
During 2011 I watched the Northern Iowa vs. NDSU football game on TV. I loved what I saw. I went to the McNeese board and wrote that as long as McNeese wasn't in the playoffs NDSU is the team I was going to pull for to win the national title. The reason is that they play football the way I like to see football played and put the lie to a lot of mythology. They follow the old tried and true formula of running the ball with power and playing stout defense. They put the lie to a lot of things people say.

Like saying it's not possible to stop today's whiz bang offenses. North Dakota State does it.

Like saying you can't win by running I formation with a fullback and bludgeoning the opponent into submission. North Dakota State does that.

They do the classic thing I like. They run the football with power. Their defense keeps them in the game even if it's not overwhelming the other team at first. Even if they're not scoring a lot they are beating up the other team's defense while their own defense either keeps them ahead or not too far behind.

Then in the second half it starts playing dividends. By the end of the game the other defense is usually gassed and they rip off chunks of yardage.

Another thing: If they get inside the 10 yard line, they don't have issues like teams that run a bunch of whiz bang shotgun stuff all the time do. They can just line up and go right at the opponent. Into the end zone they go.

I LOVE their style.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

I deleted a post here and moved it to "Blacks and Athletics" in the thread on that subject I just established on the "Other Sports" board.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by 93henfan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
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Yes that was horrible when Jimmy the Greek got fired for just offering a plausible hypothesis with not a scintilla of ill will in his heart. I don't agree with his hypothesis. I think it's genetic on a broader level and the difference pre-dates the American slave era and he postulated that it was selective breeding for physical ability during the slave era. But it was horrible that he was fired for that.

Since then there have been a number of cautiously worded studies concluding that the population we call "Black" is indeed, on average, characterized by a higher distributions of abilities in terms of things like footspeed and that it is indeed genetic. They're real careful about how they say it. They make sure to include something about race being a "social construct" and that instead we should think of it as something like "people of West African ancestry." But they do say those things.

And, I mean, it's pretty obvious.
I don't disagree.

Sweet hijack.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

I am going to the post something on the "Other Sports" board so as not to too badly contaminate this thread. It's about Blacks and athletics.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

93henfan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Yes that was horrible when Jimmy the Greek got fired for just offering a plausible hypothesis with not a scintilla of ill will in his heart. I don't agree with his hypothesis. I think it's genetic on a broader level and the difference pre-dates the American slave era and he postulated that it was selective breeding for physical ability during the slave era. But it was horrible that he was fired for that.

Since then there have been a number of cautiously worded studies concluding that the population we call "Black" is indeed, on average, characterized by a higher distributions of abilities in terms of things like footspeed and that it is indeed genetic. They're real careful about how they say it. They make sure to include something about race being a "social construct" and that instead we should think of it as something like "people of West African ancestry." But they do say those things.

And, I mean, it's pretty obvious.
I don't disagree.

Sweet hijack.
Ooops. I wasn't quick enough to delete and establish the discussion on the "Other Sports" board. But I'm not the one that started the discussion of the race angle. I just responded to the person who did.

Because my response to the Jimmy the Greek post got re posted in a response before I deleted it I'm not going to post it on the "Race and Athletics" thread I established. However, I encourage all who feel like they want to respond to me on that subject to go to that thread and respond instead of continuing the discussion in this one.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
I don't disagree.

Sweet hijack.
Ooops. I wasn't quick enough to delete and establish the discussion on the "Other Sports" board. But I'm not the one that started the discussion of the race angle. I just responded to the person who did.

Because my response to the Jimmy the Greek post got re posted in a response before I deleted it I'm not going to post it on the "Race and Athletics" thread I established. However, I encourage all who feel like they want to respond to me on that subject to go to that thread and respond instead of continuing the discussion in this one.
You responded to my post and I didn't start it either although I have no issues discussing it.

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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Gil Dobie »

dal4018 wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:Congrats to the Bizon on the 4 peat.

:clap: :clap:
Did you think that frosh wr pushed off to make that grab??
I recorded the game and just watched the Urzendowski catch at least 12 times. The only thing that touched before and during the reception was the Dbacks and Receivers hands. Of course he could have pushed off the pinky of the Dback to make that reception, but there was no push off period. Dal, I know you have been rooting against my Bison the entire playoffs. The pass was short and both players tried to make adjustments, one made a better adjustment than the other and made the catch. Great catch by the true Freshman. This was a great game, don't need your petty BS messing it up.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Pwns »

JohnStOnge wrote: During 2011 I watched the Northern Iowa vs. NDSU football game on TV. I loved what I saw. I went to the McNeese board and wrote that as long as McNeese wasn't in the playoffs NDSU is the team I was going to pull for to win the national title. The reason is that they play football the way I like to see football played and put the lie to a lot of mythology. They follow the old tried and true formula of running the ball with power and playing stout defense. They put the lie to a lot of things people say.

Like saying it's not possible to stop today's whiz bang offenses. North Dakota State does it.

Like saying you can't win by running I formation with a fullback and bludgeoning the opponent into submission. North Dakota State does that.

They do the classic thing I like. They run the football with power. Their defense keeps them in the game even if it's not overwhelming the other team at first. Even if they're not scoring a lot they are beating up the other team's defense while their own defense either keeps them ahead or not too far behind.

Then in the second half it starts playing dividends. By the end of the game the other defense is usually gassed and they rip off chunks of yardage.

Another thing: If they get inside the 10 yard line, they don't have issues like teams that run a bunch of whiz bang shotgun stuff all the time do. They can just line up and go right at the opponent. Into the end zone they go.

I LOVE their style.
Of course it's possible that they succeed in spite of their offensive system and not because of it.

All of NDSU's championship offenses (other than 2013) were average by the standards of FCS national championship teams. The defense very much carried them in 2011 and 2012. If NDSU had had this year's defense on their 2012 there's absolutely no way they beat Georgia Southern the way we were playing on offense at the end of the season.

If you aren't recruiting the highest level talent in your subdivision I will choose the "flash bang" offenses over the pro-style offenses every time. You can be outmanned in terms of talent and have a pretty good offense (see the service academies) but no one ever builds a good defense without doing some very good recruiting.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Bronco »

Great game
Hats off to both teams for putting on a great show
4 in a row is impossible but it has been done


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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

The only thing that touched before and during the reception was the Dbacks and Receivers hands. Of course he could have pushed off the pinky of the Dback to make that reception, but there was no push off period. Dal, I know you have been rooting against my Bison the entire playoffs.
I wasn't pulling against North Dakota State. As I wrote earlier I've been kind of pulling for North Dakota State for years now because I like their style. And I started doing that before they won their first national title so it's not completely a bandwagon thing.

But I think the receiver did push off enough to get an advantage and throw the defensive back off balance. I've got it on DVR so I'll go watch it again but in watching it live and watching it replayed during the telecast that's what I thought. It is what it is though. What I think I saw wasn't real flagrant so there's a good chance the official isn't going to call it. But I think sometimes that level of offensive push off does get called. Bad luck for you if it does get called. Good luck for you if it doesn't.

If you're Illinois State it shouldn't have gotten to that point anyway. Their defense just totally collapsed on that last drive. I don't know what the issue was but it was pretty bad if you're an illinois State fan. If you're an Illinois State fan it's like, "At LEAST make them work for it."

If you're a North Dakota State fan it's, "WOW. What a clutch drive!"
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
The only thing that touched before and during the reception was the Dbacks and Receivers hands. Of course he could have pushed off the pinky of the Dback to make that reception, but there was no push off period. Dal, I know you have been rooting against my Bison the entire playoffs.
I wasn't pulling against North Dakota State. As I wrote earlier I've been kind of pulling for North Dakota State for years now because I like their style. And I started doing that before they won their first national title so it's not completely a bandwagon thing.

But I think the receiver did push off enough to get an advantage and throw the defensive back off balance. I've got it on DVR so I'll go watch it again but in watching it live and watching it replayed during the telecast that's what I thought. It is what it is though. What I think I saw wasn't real flagrant so there's a good chance the official isn't going to call it. But I think sometimes that level of offensive push off does get called. Bad luck for you if it does get called. Good luck for you if it doesn't.

If you're Illinois State it shouldn't have gotten to that point anyway. Their defense just totally collapsed on that last drive. I don't know what the issue was but it was pretty bad if you're an illinois State fan. If you're an Illinois State fan it's like, "At LEAST make them work for it."

If you're a North Dakota State fan it's, "WOW. What a clutch drive!"
Show me a video that shows he pushed off. Watch both angles when you watch the DVR and let me know what you think. The refs went with what I saw. The Dback stumbling while adjusting is not a push off. The Dback did make a great TD saving tackle after the reception. I'd like to know if you see contact beyond the hands on hands.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

Show me a video that shows he pushed off. Watch both angles when you watch the DVR and let me know what you think.
I just watched it again on the DVR several times. Did it a few times stop/starting. I think the same thing as when I saw it live. He did a little push off. It wasn't a push off on the DBs body. He put his hands on the DBs arm and gave a little push and it created a little separation and also, I think helped him slow his own momentum a little as he adjusted to the ball. I tried looking for it on Youtube so we could post it and discuss it but it's not up yet that I can see.

Anyway I'm not saying that because I was pulling against NDSU. Just trying to be objective. As I was watching it live I thought he pushed off and for a brief moment after the play was wondering if there was going to be a flag. It wasn't a real big or obvious push off but it was a push off. I have seen stuff I consider equivalent to that called before. But I've seen it not called before too.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Show me a video that shows he pushed off. Watch both angles when you watch the DVR and let me know what you think.
I just watched it again on the DVR several times. Did it a few times stop/starting. I think the same thing as when I saw it live. He did a little push off. It wasn't a push off on the DBs body. He put his hands on the DBs arm and gave a little push and it created a little separation and also, I think helped him slow his own momentum a little as he adjusted to the ball. I tried looking for it on Youtube so we could post it and discuss it but it's not up yet that I can see.

Anyway I'm not saying that because I was pulling against NDSU. Just trying to be objective. As I was watching it live I thought he pushed off and for a brief moment after the play was wondering if there was going to be a flag. It wasn't a real big or obvious push off but it was a push off. I have seen stuff I consider equivalent to that called before. But I've seen it not called before too.
I didn't find it on youtube yet, with the view where they only touch with hands to hands. The announcers didn't say anything nor the ISUR coaches and the Dback didn't complain either.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by JohnStOnge »

I didn't find it on youtube yet, with the view where they only touch with hands to hands. The announcers didn't say anything nor the ISUR coaches and the Dback didn't complain either.
I'd call it hands on arm. To me he put both hands down, made contact with the defenders arm, and flicked one hand out in a clear pushing motion. Maybe he was just unconsciously trying to push the guy's arm away from him but it was still a pushing motion and I do think it influenced the overall motion of the defender.

I don't think it was like a horrible no call or anything. But I do think I've seen stuff at that level called before. I am not lying when I say that as soon as I saw the play go down I started listening to hear if they said "there's a flag."
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
I didn't find it on youtube yet, with the view where they only touch with hands to hands. The announcers didn't say anything nor the ISUR coaches and the Dback didn't complain either.
I'd call it hands on arm. To me he put both hands down, made contact with the defenders arm, and flicked one hand out in a clear pushing motion. Maybe he was just unconsciously trying to push the guy's arm away from him but it was still a pushing motion and I do think it influenced the overall motion of the defender.

I don't think it was like a horrible no call or anything. But I do think I've seen stuff at that level called before. I am not lying when I say that as soon as I saw the play go down I started listening to hear if they said "there's a flag."
There was not enough hand arm contact to make the dback fall. Maybe his hand to the receivers chest made him lose balance trying to adjust. You are chasing windmills on this one.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by 89Hen »

Live I called it OPI, but after seeing the first replay... no way. Good non-call.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Grizalltheway »

89Hen wrote:Live I called it OPI, but after seeing the first replay... no way. Good non-call.
Thought you didn't watch? :coffee: :kisswink:
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by 89Hen »

Grizalltheway wrote:
89Hen wrote:Live I called it OPI, but after seeing the first replay... no way. Good non-call.
Thought you didn't watch? :coffee: :kisswink:
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by dal4018 »

Gil Dobie wrote:
dal4018 wrote:Did you think that frosh wr pushed off to make that grab??
I recorded the game and just watched the Urzendowski catch at least 12 times. The only thing that touched before and during the reception was the Dbacks and Receivers hands. Of course he could have pushed off the pinky of the Dback to make that reception, but there was no push off period. Dal, I know you have been rooting against my Bison the entire playoffs. The pass was short and both players tried to make adjustments, one made a better adjustment than the other and made the catch. Great catch by the true Freshman. This was a great game, don't need your petty BS messing it up.
Gil yes I rooted against NDSU but I give credit where its due.Gil you want to see a five peat?????
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

Post by Gil Dobie »

dal4018 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
I recorded the game and just watched the Urzendowski catch at least 12 times. The only thing that touched before and during the reception was the Dbacks and Receivers hands. Of course he could have pushed off the pinky of the Dback to make that reception, but there was no push off period. Dal, I know you have been rooting against my Bison the entire playoffs. The pass was short and both players tried to make adjustments, one made a better adjustment than the other and made the catch. Great catch by the true Freshman. This was a great game, don't need your petty BS messing it up.
Gil yes I rooted against NDSU but I give credit where its due.Gil you want to see a five peat?????
Of course a 5-peat would be great, but it gets tougher each year to stay on top.
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Re: FCS Championship Game 1/10/2015 FRISCO, Texas

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North Dakota State Bison Fans Deserve to Hear this (Because they Probably Can’t Read)
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