Solyndra!

Political discussions
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Solyndra!

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

75 people with families - 200-300 people. Plus plant visitors (motel). Spending in town generates more businesses, etc. But your a banker who votes Republican, so you don't know anything about economics :nod:
Again, I ask: So every employee is being hired from outside the community?

I give it 3 years and the plant will be closed, the Dollar General will be a burned out shell, the motel will be a "rooms-by-the-hour" joint and the grocery store will be converted to a church.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 36368
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Solyndra!

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
What energy is under priced?
Oil, duh.
No it's not. Duh.
JMU Football:
4 Years FBS: 40-11 (.784). Highest winning percentage & least losses of all of G5 2022-2025.
Sun Belt East Champions: 2022, 2023, 2025
Sun Belt Champions: 2025
Top 25 ranked: 2022, 2023, 2025
CFP: 2025
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69143
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Solyndra!

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
kalm wrote:
Oil, duh.
No it's not. Duh.
So gas prices in the U.S. reflect all the costs?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 36368
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Solyndra!

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
No it's not. Duh.
So gas prices in the U.S. reflect all the costs?
Govt inflates the costs by preventing full resource extraction: extraction off of both coasts, in the eastern Gulf, in some Alaskan waters, ANWER, other govt lands..
JMU Football:
4 Years FBS: 40-11 (.784). Highest winning percentage & least losses of all of G5 2022-2025.
Sun Belt East Champions: 2022, 2023, 2025
Sun Belt Champions: 2025
Top 25 ranked: 2022, 2023, 2025
CFP: 2025
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69143
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Solyndra!

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
kalm wrote:
So gas prices in the U.S. reflect all the costs?
Govt inflates the costs by preventing full resource extraction: extraction off of both coasts, in the eastern Gulf, in some Alaskan waters, ANWER, other govt lands..
1) You do realize pristine natural areas and a clean environment have a value too, right?

2) Govt deflates also deflates the cost.
The federal government subsidizes the oil industry with numerous tax breaks and government protection programs worth billions of dollars annually. These benefits are designed to ensure that domestic oil companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.

Our dependency on oil from countries that are either politically unstable or at odds with the U.S. subjects the American economy to occasional supply disruptions, price hikes, and loss of wealth, which, according to a study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Energy, have cost us more than $7 trillion present value dollars over the last 30 years. That is more than the cumulative cost of all of the wars fought by the U.S. since the Revolutionary War. The transfer of wealth to oil-producing countries - $1.16 trillion over the past thirty years - significantly increased our trade deficit. The Department of Energy estimates that each $1 billion of trade deficit costs America 27,000 jobs. Oil imports account for almost one-third of the total U.S. deficit and, hence, are a major contributor to unemployment.

The cost of securing our access to Middle East oil - deploying U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, patrolling its water and supplying military assistance to Middle East countries - is estimated at $50 billion per year, which adds additional dimes to each gallon of gasoline we purchase

Political instability in the region breeds wars and embroils the U.S. in costly military actions. The 1990-91 Gulf War broke out as a result of an oil dispute between Iraq and Kuwait. The cost to the international community reached almost $80 billion. The cost of the 2003 Iraq war and the following occupation of the country is estimated at $200 billion.

According to the National Defense Council Foundation, the economic penalties of America's oil dependence total $297.2 to $304.9 billion annually. If reflected at the gasoline pump, these “hidden costs” would raise the price of a gallon of gasoline to over $5.28. A fill-up would be over $105. To ensure access to the oil that fuels our economy, the U.S. is forced to maintain continuous presence in the Middle East. This presence has been a rallying cry for anti-Americanism and Islamic fundamentalism
http://www.iags.org/costofoil.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leveling the playing field between fossil fuels and renewables frees up the market. :nod:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 36368
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Solyndra!

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Govt inflates the costs by preventing full resource extraction: extraction off of both coasts, in the eastern Gulf, in some Alaskan waters, ANWER, other govt lands..
1) You do realize pristine natural areas and a clean environment have a value too, right?

2) Govt deflates also deflates the cost.
The federal government subsidizes the oil industry with numerous tax breaks and government protection programs worth billions of dollars annually. These benefits are designed to ensure that domestic oil companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.

Our dependency on oil from countries that are either politically unstable or at odds with the U.S. subjects the American economy to occasional supply disruptions, price hikes, and loss of wealth, which, according to a study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Energy, have cost us more than $7 trillion present value dollars over the last 30 years. That is more than the cumulative cost of all of the wars fought by the U.S. since the Revolutionary War. The transfer of wealth to oil-producing countries - $1.16 trillion over the past thirty years - significantly increased our trade deficit. The Department of Energy estimates that each $1 billion of trade deficit costs America 27,000 jobs. Oil imports account for almost one-third of the total U.S. deficit and, hence, are a major contributor to unemployment.

The cost of securing our access to Middle East oil - deploying U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, patrolling its water and supplying military assistance to Middle East countries - is estimated at $50 billion per year, which adds additional dimes to each gallon of gasoline we purchase

Political instability in the region breeds wars and embroils the U.S. in costly military actions. The 1990-91 Gulf War broke out as a result of an oil dispute between Iraq and Kuwait. The cost to the international community reached almost $80 billion. The cost of the 2003 Iraq war and the following occupation of the country is estimated at $200 billion.

According to the National Defense Council Foundation, the economic penalties of America's oil dependence total $297.2 to $304.9 billion annually. If reflected at the gasoline pump, these “hidden costs” would raise the price of a gallon of gasoline to over $5.28. A fill-up would be over $105. To ensure access to the oil that fuels our economy, the U.S. is forced to maintain continuous presence in the Middle East. This presence has been a rallying cry for anti-Americanism and Islamic fundamentalism
http://www.iags.org/costofoil.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leveling the playing field between fossil fuels and renewables frees up the market. :nod:
And that link above totally ignores how govt inflates costs with domestic supply restrictions. Gov't wouldn't have to deflate costs in one hand if they didn't increase it on the other.

Get out of the Middle East and other unstable regions in return for ending domestic restrictions mentioned above. Wouln't be any massive harm to the environment, lower defense & security costs, lower trade deficits, less enriching of camel jockey nations, further massive increase in US supply, tons more jobs, good for the economy.. :nod:
User avatar
travelinman67
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 9884
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm
I am a fan of: Portland State Vikings
A.K.A.: Modern Man
Location: Where the 1st Amendment still exists: CS.com

Re: Solyndra!

Post by travelinman67 »

kalm wrote:
Leveling the playing field between fossil fuels and renewables frees up the market. :nod:
Dumbest statement to date.

Govt has attached itself to the oil producers like a leech.

Every aspect of oil development is taxed.
"That is how government works - we tell you what you can do today."
- EPA Kommissar Gina McCarthy
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60519
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: Solyndra!

Post by Ibanez »

travelinman67 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Leveling the playing field between fossil fuels and renewables frees up the market. :nod:
Dumbest statement to date.

Govt has attached itself to the oil producers like a leech.

Every aspect of oil development is taxed.
Exactly. The government is too entrenched.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69143
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Solyndra!

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:
Dumbest statement to date.

Govt has attached itself to the oil producers like a leech.

Every aspect of oil development is taxed.
Exactly. The government is too entrenched.
Government is also entrenched for strategic reasons and has been all along. If we really want to compare the costs of energy production, it all has to be taken into account (taxes, subsidies, military, regulations, environmental costs etc).
Image
Image
Image
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Solyndra!

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Exactly. The government is too entrenched.
Government is also entrenched for strategic reasons and has been all along. If we really want to compare the costs of energy production, it all has to be taken into account (taxes, subsidies, military, regulations, environmental costs etc).
Well it should be. Our security is too important to be left in the hands of scumsuckers like the oil companies. :coffee:
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Solyndra!

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:

75 people with families - 200-300 people. Plus plant visitors (motel). Spending in town generates more businesses, etc. But your a banker who votes Republican, so you don't know anything about economics :nod:
Again, I ask: So every employee is being hired from outside the community?

I give it 3 years and the plant will be closed, the Dollar General will be a burned out shell, the motel will be a "rooms-by-the-hour" joint and the grocery store will be converted to a church.
If thats anything like your VP predictions you should move there now and get in on the ground floor.. :mrgreen:
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Solyndra!

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Again, I ask: So every employee is being hired from outside the community?

I give it 3 years and the plant will be closed, the Dollar General will be a burned out shell, the motel will be a "rooms-by-the-hour" joint and the grocery store will be converted to a church.
If thats anything like your VP predictions you should move there now and get in on the ground floor.. :mrgreen:
Not a bad idea.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
Post Reply