Police Officers Association demands NFL apology...

[Ibanez]

The studies I read regarding race and employment bemoan the complete lack of interest blacks and Hispanics have in technical fields and sciences

The reason there is a lack of interest is because there's a lack of ability. You're not interested in doing something you can't do. And the reason there is talk about a "lack of interest" is an aversion to talk about a lack of aptitude.

And it goes beyond that. When you talk about something Blacks (or other chosen groups) aren't good at you see statements like the following:

"This isn't just an issue of equity or fairness. A more diversified workforce will result in better engineering solutions in all sectors as well as address a critical national shortage of workers in some engineering fields," said Susan Staffin Metz, WEPAN president.

In other words, if there aren't enough Blacks (or other selected group members) in a given field that's "bad." Nobody ever says it's "bad" when Blacks are OVER represented in a particular profession.

The fact is Blacks just aren't good at math on average. We have REAMS of data that would show that to ANYBODY who's objective about it. And you have have to be good at math to be an engineer. But instead they're going to say stuff like "Blacks aren't INTERESTED in being engineers."

And something MUST be done about it to achieve that ESSENTIAL "diversity."

I just want to point out that we just hired 5 systems engineers with 5+ years of experience. Only one of them is white. Anecdotal, yes.

[Chizzang]

I just want to point out that we just hired 5 systems engineers with 5+ years of experience. Only one of them is white. Anecdotal, yes.

How many were Hispanic or Black...?
and how many were from India or Asia..?

I need hard data

[Ibanez]

I just want to point out that we just hired 5 systems engineers with 5+ years of experience. Only one of them is white. Anecdotal, yes.

How many were Hispanic or Black...?
and how many were from India

I need hard data

4 blacks 1 white.


We don't have any Indians or Hispanics here.

[JohnStOnge]

I just want to point out that we just hired 5 systems engineers with 5+ years of experience. Only one of them is white. Anecdotal, yes.

Well, that's fine. In terms of absolute number there are plenty of Blacks who are, for instance, in the top 20% in terms of math aptitude. Like if you said 5% of Blacks are in the top 20% as I did in my earlier illustration that is 2.1 million people.

But when you look at the overall situation in percentage terms what you would expect to see in is that proportion of Blacks in occupations like that is substantially smaller than the proportion of Blacks in the general population. That's if you look at something like NAEP test scores to gauge how the distributions of aptitudes look.

And that's what you see. An example is at http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-24.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Now, even though you do see that they are "underrepresented," they're actually represented to a greater extent than you would expect based on the distributions of aptitudes. But I think there is an obvious explanation for that: They get special consideration. They get "extra points" for being Black and contributing to "diversity."

There is a cultural "desire" to increase Black representation in such fields so if you're Black and you're even CLOSE to being qualified you're in really good shape. You're a sought after commodity because you're good enough to function, you're Black, and people want to be able to say they hired Blacks for positions like that.

[JohnStOnge]

And BTW please don't even TRY to tell me it doesn't work that way. One experience I'll always remember is seeing one of my former employers decide it wanted to hire a Black biologist. It never got a qualified Black applicant. It got plenty of qualified applicants. Just no Black ones.

So it did something I never saw it do prior to that in my five years there. It quit trying to hire someone already qualified and downgraded the position to an associate biologist position. I think that's what it was called. Anyway it was a position you could go into and work for a while then get PROMOTED to biologist.

That's the kind of hoops they went through just so they could say they had a Black biologist. I saw it first hand. So PLEASE don't try to tell me that when it comes to positions in the sciences and such that Blacks of given qualification level are at a DISADVANTAGE in finding employment.

[D1B]

And BTW please don't even TRY to tell me it doesn't work that way. One experience I'll always remember is seeing one of my former employers decide it wanted to hire a Black biologist. It never got a qualified Black applicant. It got plenty of qualified applicants. Just no Black ones.

So it did something I never saw it do prior to that in my five years there. It quit trying to hire someone already qualified and downgraded the position to an associate biologist position. I think that's what it was called. Anyway it was a position you could go into and work for a while then get PROMOTED to biologist.

That's the kind of hoops they went through just so they could say they had a Black biologist. I saw it first hand. So PLEASE don't try to tell me that when it comes to positions in the sciences and such that Blacks of given qualification level are at a DISADVANTAGE in finding employment.

Good for their effort to reverse hundreds of years of suffering resulting from the African Holocaust.

Too bad they couldn't find one. Was a tough task with blacks comprising such a small percentage of the population. A black peer could have helped you become a better person, perhaps.

[houndawg]

And BTW please don't even TRY to tell me it doesn't work that way. One experience I'll always remember is seeing one of my former employers decide it wanted to hire a Black biologist. It never got a qualified Black applicant. It got plenty of qualified applicants. Just no Black ones.

So it did something I never saw it do prior to that in my five years there. It quit trying to hire someone already qualified and downgraded the position to an associate biologist position. I think that's what it was called. Anyway it was a position you could go into and work for a while then get PROMOTED to biologist.

That's the kind of hoops they went through just so they could say they had a Black biologist. I saw it first hand. So PLEASE don't try to tell me that when it comes to positions in the sciences and such that Blacks of given qualification level are at a DISADVANTAGE in finding employment.

One time.

You're such a drama queen, John.

[JohnStOnge]

One time.

You know better than that. It happens all the time in various areas. There have been major Supreme Court cases over it. You know, like the Grutter vs. Bollinger case, where an expert witness for the University of Michigan Law School testified as described:

Dr. Stephen Raudenbush, the Law School’s expert, focused on the predicted effect of eliminating race as a factor in the Law School’s admission process. In Dr. Raudenbush’s view, a race-blind admissions system would have a “ ‘very dramatic,’ ” negative effect on underrepresented minority admissions. App. to Pet. for Cert. 223a. He testified that in 2000, 35 percent of underrepresented minority applicants were admitted. Ibid. Dr. Raudenbush predicted that if race were not considered, only 10 percent of those applicants would have been admitted. Ibid. Under this scenario, underrepresented minority students would have comprised 4 percent of the entering class in 2000 instead of the actual figure of 14.5 percent. Ibid.

That's from the decision; which you can see at http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-241.ZO.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Do the math and you'll conclude that only about 28 percent of the "underrepresented minority" students admitted to that class would've been admitted if they weren't getting "extra credit" for being of their race. More than 2/3 of the members of that class would not have been admitted if everything had been the same about them except that they were, say, White. Or Asian by the way.

That kind of stuff is going on all over the place and we all know it. There is tremendous pressure to achieve "diversity," which is basically code for "have enough Blacks." Or sometimes it's "have enough women."

Mostly it's "have enough Blacks" though.

[houndawg]

One time.

You know better than that. It happens all the time in various areas. There have been major Supreme Court cases over it. You know, like the Grutter vs. Bollinger case, where an expert witness for the University of Michigan Law School testified as described:

Dr. Stephen Raudenbush, the Law School’s expert, focused on the predicted effect of eliminating race as a factor in the Law School’s admission process. In Dr. Raudenbush’s view, a race-blind admissions system would have a “ ‘very dramatic,’ ” negative effect on underrepresented minority admissions. App. to Pet. for Cert. 223a. He testified that in 2000, 35 percent of underrepresented minority applicants were admitted. Ibid. Dr. Raudenbush predicted that if race were not considered, only 10 percent of those applicants would have been admitted. Ibid. Under this scenario, underrepresented minority students would have comprised 4 percent of the entering class in 2000 instead of the actual figure of 14.5 percent. Ibid.

That's from the decision; which you can see at http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-241.ZO.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Do the math and you'll conclude that only about 28 percent of the "underrepresented minority" students admitted to that class would've been admitted if they weren't getting "extra credit" for being of their race. More than 2/3 of the members of that class would not have been admitted if everything had been the same about them except that they were, say, White. Or Asian by the way.

That kind of stuff is going on all over the place and we all know it. There is tremendous pressure to achieve "diversity," which is basically code for "have enough Blacks." Or sometimes it's "have enough women."

Mostly it's "have enough Blacks" though.

So they should apologize to th police...?