Gil Dobie wrote:Was it required that they bow their heads in prayer or did he ask them to participate if they chose to do so?kalm wrote:
What was his purpose in publicly reading the bible and asking folks to bow their heads in prayer?
and frankly you're embarrassing yourself to a degree I've never seen on this forum
According to the article, he asked them to. Why did he ask them? Again, what was his purpose with any of it?Gil Dobie wrote:Was it required that they bow their heads in prayer or did he ask them to participate if they chose to do so?kalm wrote:
What was his purpose in publicly reading the bible and asking folks to bow their heads in prayer?
We are getting down to the fine line of when I would consider it crossing the line. Judge tells you to pray is over the line, Judge ask you to pray, that's about as far as I go.Chizzang wrote:Gil Dobie wrote:
Was it required that they bow their heads in prayer or did he ask them to participate if they chose to do so?
You are cutting a pretty fine line of bullsh!t here Bro... He's a JUDGE
Everybody does what the Judge says to do in his courtroom
If you got pulled over for speeding and the cop asked you to pray with him, would you?Gil Dobie wrote:We are getting down to the fine line of when I would consider it crossing the line. Judge tells you to pray is over the line, Judge ask you to pray, that's about as far as I go.Chizzang wrote:
You are cutting a pretty fine line of bullsh!t here Bro... He's a JUDGE
Everybody does what the Judge says to do in his courtroom
Don't know for sure, could be custom, tradition, or he may be preaching and shouldn't be. Just gave my opinion with the information I've read. My opinion may change if more information comes out.kalm wrote:According to the article, he asked them to. Why did he ask them? Again, what was his purpose with any of it?Gil Dobie wrote:
Was it required that they bow their heads in prayer or did he ask them to participate if they chose to do so?
If the prayer is something I believe in I would, otherwise no.kalm wrote: If you got pulled over for speeding and the cop asked you to pray with him, would you?
You are probably right, but it's not a good idea for a judge to try that in his courtroom. The judge is free to pray in his chambers before or after court is in session, there is no good reason to pray during court.Gil Dobie wrote:To me, he's not preaching, he's reading from a book. If it's a Koran or any other book, he's reading, and I'm on trial, I'm not concerned. You could probably find something hostile and abusive to someone, in any book in the Library of Congress.dbackjon wrote: So you really think that promotes preaching from the bench (before the trial) gives an air of impartiality? Sorry, but it creates a hostile atmosphere for anyone that does not subscribe to that view, and crosses a line.
Gil Dobie wrote:We are getting down to the fine line of when I would consider it crossing the line. Judge tells you to pray is over the line, Judge ask you to pray, that's about as far as I go.Chizzang wrote:
You are cutting a pretty fine line of bullsh!t here Bro... He's a JUDGE
Everybody does what the Judge says to do in his courtroom
That is, unless you are an unknown and obscure, small-time Justice of the Peace in Butthole, TX who seeks higher office in Texas, and knows that becoming a martyr for the cause of public prayer is, in the State of Texas, a one-way ticket to the House of Representatives or other higher office.BlueHen86 wrote:..., there is no good reason to pray during court.
JoltinJoe wrote:That is, unless you are an unknown and obscure, small-time Justice of the Peace in Butthole, TX who seeks higher office in Texas, and knows that becoming a martyr for the cause of public prayer is, in the State of Texas, a one-way ticket to the House of Representatives or other higher office.BlueHen86 wrote:..., there is no good reason to pray during court.
I wouldn't be surprised if the judge himself is the anonymous person who tipped off the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
That's a clever observation Joe, I hadn't considered that... 
I understand that this is what you believe, and that's okay. Judges use more than Facts, Understanding of the Law and Logic and Reason all the time. For example, I could see a Judge that has been mugged in the past, having a different view of a person on trial for a mugging, than a Judge that has never been mugged. There is faith in the court room all the time. Some have faith in God, some have faith in a lawyer, some have faith in the Judge, some have faith in the system, some have faith in the lucky rabbits foot in their pocket, and some have faith in all or some of the above.Chizzang wrote:
What YOU don't seem to understand Gil is Praying is an act of Faith
And I don;t want Faith in the courtroom
I want cold hard facts and absolute logic
Not fairy tails and unicorns or leprechauns - none of that crap
1) Facts
2) Understanding of the Law
3) Logic and reason
That is all there is room for in the court of law Gil...
I don;t want somebody praying to Jesus to guide them while lives hang in the balance
frankly its beyond ridiculous
Save that sh!t for Grandma's cancer or Lottery Tickets
I also don't want a judge flipping a coin to decide my fate... Do you..?Gil Dobie wrote:I understand that this is what you believe, and that's okay. Judges use more than Facts, Understanding of the Law and Logic and Reason all the time. For example, I could see a Judge that has been mugged in the past, having a different view of a person on trial for a mugging, than a Judge that has never been mugged. There is faith in the court room all the time. Some have faith in God, some have faith in a lawyer, some have faith in the Judge, some have faith in the system, some have faith in the lucky rabbits foot in their pocket, and some have faith in all or some of the above.Chizzang wrote:
What YOU don't seem to understand Gil is Praying is an act of Faith
And I don;t want Faith in the courtroom
I want cold hard facts and absolute logic
Not fairy tails and unicorns or leprechauns - none of that crap
1) Facts
2) Understanding of the Law
3) Logic and reason
That is all there is room for in the court of law Gil...
I don;t want somebody praying to Jesus to guide them while lives hang in the balance
frankly its beyond ridiculous
Save that sh!t for Grandma's cancer or Lottery Tickets
If I'm up for murder and facing life in prison, and the act is on film, a coin flip doesn't look so bad.Chizzang wrote: I also don't want a judge flipping a coin to decide my fate... Do you..?
Frankly you're casual disregard disturbs me
Welcome to IranGil Dobie wrote:If I'm up for murder and facing life in prison, and the act is on film, a coin flip doesn't look so bad.Chizzang wrote: I also don't want a judge flipping a coin to decide my fate... Do you..?
Frankly you're casual disregard disturbs me
You're a hoot Iran does not have freedom of religion as I support. You are trying to say I support state sponsored religion, I'm not even religious. Of course that would mean you read what I said and not what you think you wanted me to say. Earlier in the thread I stated that if the judge required prayer it was over the line.Chizzang wrote: Welcome to Iran
The Nation you've been defending this entire thread Gil
Gil Dobie wrote:Iran does not have freedom of religion as I support. You are trying to say I support state sponsored religion, I'm not even religious. Of course that would mean you read what I said and not what you think you wanted me to say. Earlier in the thread I stated that if the judge required prayer it was over the line.Chizzang wrote: Welcome to Iran
The Nation you've been defending this entire thread Gil
Not enough goatOL FU wrote:Gil Dobie wrote:
Iran does not have freedom of religion as I support. You are trying to say I support state sponsored religion, I'm not even religious. Of course that would mean you read what I said and not what you think you wanted me to say. Earlier in the thread I stated that if the judge required prayer it was over the line.
Chizzang is full of .............................hyperbole
Is the judge not the representative of the state?Gil Dobie wrote:Iran does not have freedom of religion as I support. You are trying to say I support state sponsored religion, I'm not even religious. Of course that would mean you read what I said and not what you think you wanted me to say. Earlier in the thread I stated that if the judge required prayer it was over the line.Chizzang wrote: Welcome to Iran
The Nation you've been defending this entire thread Gil
Is the judge not also a citizen of the country that allows freedom of religion? I think you know my stance by now, that if he is forcing people to pray, or telling them what to believe, then he is over the line. If he is reading out of a book that he likes and has a spiritual message fine, but if says this is also his rule of law, then it's not okay. It's a sticky wicket for sure, but I'm not one to prevent people from practicing their principles and being true to themselves.kalm wrote:Is the judge not the representative of the state?Gil Dobie wrote:
Iran does not have freedom of religion as I support. You are trying to say I support state sponsored religion, I'm not even religious. Of course that would mean you read what I said and not what you think you wanted me to say. Earlier in the thread I stated that if the judge required prayer it was over the line.
“I have been put on notice by the staff attorney for the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Madison Wisconsin. I will be addressing their demand that we “immediately end the practice of court prayer” at the Oct 23rd Prayer Breakfast. I am not seeking the potential controversy, as I will have to respond to these groups as well. We are on strong moral and legal ground.”
Gil Dobie wrote:Is the judge not also a citizen of the country that allows freedom of religion? I think you know my stance by now, that if he is forcing people to pray, or telling them what to believe, then he is over the line. If he is reading out of a book that he likes and has a spiritual message fine, but if says this is also his rule of law, then it's not okay. It's a sticky wicket for sure, but I'm not one to prevent people from practicing their principles and being true to themselves.kalm wrote:
Is the judge not the representative of the state?
The name of this group that he is addressing, sounds like something from the old Soviet Union. It will be interesting to hear his response. My opinion could go either way, depending on what he has to say about his prayer in court.
“I have been put on notice by the staff attorney for the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Madison Wisconsin. I will be addressing their demand that we “immediately end the practice of court prayer” at the Oct 23rd Prayer Breakfast. I am not seeking the potential controversy, as I will have to respond to these groups as well. We are on strong moral and legal ground.”
Chizzang wrote:
This is where my bullsh!t mete goes berzerk ^ right here...
Waking up in the morning doesn't do it? 
OL FU wrote:Chizzang wrote:
This is where my bullsh!t mete goes berzerk ^ right here...
Fuck that serious shit.Chizzang wrote:OL FU wrote:
Meh...
Actually I don't really care what some yokel farmer judge does in the flyover states
In Washington State he'd be fired (actually he'd never get to office) in his state I'm sure they love him
But it makes for good debate
OL FU wrote:Fuck that serious shit.Chizzang wrote:
Meh...
Actually I don't really care what some yokel farmer judge does in the flyover states
In Washington State he'd be fired (actually he'd never get to office) in his state I'm sure they love him
But it makes for good debate
Aren't you glad I am in a better mood
I want you to experience a life of care free joyousness This was left off the story on the original link, even though I know you don't give a $hit..Chizzang wrote: This is where my bullsh!t mete goes berzerk ^ right here...
The guy is on a STATE (f*cking) SALARY
And your explanation of your position is weak (extremely weak)
"being true to himself" !!!! what kind of hippie nonsense is that
That is such absolute nonsense - sure if he was in Kindergarten absolutely "Be yourself"
But he's on a STATE SALARY and is representing the State System that shall favor no religion
You (and he) are making a complete mockery of our system
I have a gut feeling the judge will bring up this recent Supreme Court decision at his prayer meeting on the Thursday. Like I said before, his reasoning may sway my view of him having a prayer and a reading from the Bible.after you entered the courtroom you stated, “We are going to say a prayer. If any of you are offended by that you can leave into the hallway and your case will not be affected.” After that announcement, we understand that you introduced a pastor who read from the bible for more than five minutes.
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... z3GoNqOem7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Being true to yourself and being yourself are two completely different ideals.A narrowly divided Supreme Court upheld decidedly Christian prayers at the start of local council meetings on Monday, declaring them in line with long national traditions though the country has grown more religiously diverse.
The content of the prayers is not significant as long as they do not denigrate non-Christians or try to win converts, the court said in a 5-4 decision backed by its conservative majority.
Though the decision split the court along ideological lines, the Obama administration backed the winning side, the town of Greece, N.Y., outside of Rochester.
The outcome relied heavily on a 1983 decision in which the court upheld an opening prayer in the Nebraska Legislature and said prayer is part of the nation's fabric, not a violation of the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion.
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