Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Political discussions
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
If you answer the questions, then you'll have figured it out.

But, here's some additional information, from mid-June, to help.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/201406 ... divisions-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The extremist group [ISIS] seizing vast swaths of Iraq this week is most likely fielding a small force of less than 1,000 fighters equipped with little more than small-arms weaponry and soft-shelled pickup trucks.

But the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, apparently has routed an estimated 30,000 Iraqi Army soldiers who were trained by the U.S. military and given billions in sophisticated American military equipment.

The stunning outcome reflects widespread desertions among the Iraqi units in the north as well as the Sunni-Shiite sectarian tensions that underlie the military battles, experts say.

“It’s a relativity small force that managed to take the city [of Mosul], and it’s shocking that they were able to do that,” said Charlie Cooper, who studies Islamic extremism for the Quilliam Foundation in London.



No matter how many guns and tanks and training nor how much ammo you give someone, if they're a coward they're not going to use it properly.

The French have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.


It also depends on what they believe they are fighting for.

What, exactly, are the Sunnis and Shiites in the Iraqi army fighting for...and are they really fighting for the same thing? :suspicious:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by CAA Flagship »

Cluck U wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: JFC Cluck. Will you stop talking in questions? I don't know what the fuck you are trying to say.
If you answer the questions, then you'll have figured it out.

But, here's some additional information, from mid-June, to help.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/201406 ... divisions-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The extremist group [ISIS] seizing vast swaths of Iraq this week is most likely fielding a small force of less than 1,000 fighters equipped with little more than small-arms weaponry and soft-shelled pickup trucks.

But the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, apparently has routed an estimated 30,000 Iraqi Army soldiers who were trained by the U.S. military and given billions in sophisticated American military equipment.

The stunning outcome reflects widespread desertions among the Iraqi units in the north as well as the Sunni-Shiite sectarian tensions that underlie the military battles, experts say.

“It’s a relativity small force that managed to take the city [of Mosul], and it’s shocking that they were able to do that,” said Charlie Cooper, who studies Islamic extremism for the Quilliam Foundation in London.

“To me, that suggests there is collusion or at least deliberate capitulation on the part of Sunni tribes in western and northern Iraq,” Cooper said. “It’s likely that this happened because Sunni tribes in the area let it happen.”

Experts say ISIS totals no more than 10,000 fighters throughout Iraq and Syria, while the force that specifically seized the city of Mosul this week probably totaled about 800 fighters. That force overpowered two Iraqi Army divisions totaling about 30,000 troops.

“Clearly, the Iraqi forces in the north lack cohesion and a will to fight,” said Jeff White, a former intelligence analyst with the Defense Intelligence Agency who is now a defense expert with the Washington Institute think tank.

In terms of weaponry, ISIS has small arms and civilian-style pickup trucks with mounted crew-served weapons, mainly heavy machine guns such as Russian-made Dushkas, and also a limited supply of 23mm anti-aircraft weapons that they are using for direct fire, White said.

On the other side, the Iraqi army is awash in about $15 billion in U.S. gear transferred since 2005, including IA-407 helicopters, M-1 Abrams tanks, C-130 fixed-wing aircraft and 300 hellfire missiles, Pentagon officials say."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That was June. Now, three months later, the CIA has updated the threat to say that ISIS has 21,000 - 30,000 troops.

ISIS is the biggest, most gigantistist threat out there, according to the latest...intelligence. We must degrade, then destroy them.

You even said they are a threat.

My questions to you are...why are they a threat...and if they are a threat, how do you propose to destroy them? :suspicious:
If they choose not to govern the people within their controlled lands, they are a threat to humanity. Are they trying to govern? Or is their sole purpose to rid the world of people unlike them? I don't know, but I'm thinking that they have no intention of governing.

What if they mimic Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and develop the world's premier training resort for terrorism? Do you think they will be a threat to the US, or our economic interests, then?

Hey, none of us have all the information on these clowns. So I don't know how to destroy them or if we need to. But I don't give a shit how many tanks they have. Air superiority >>>>>>> tanks. Certainly, like any other campaign, you start out with aerial attacks. It has seemed to meet the short term objectives thus far by backing them off the Kurds.
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

CAA Flagship wrote: If they choose not to govern the people within their controlled lands, they are a threat to humanity. Are they trying to govern? Or is their sole purpose to rid the world of people unlike them? I don't know, but I'm thinking that they have no intention of governing.

What if they mimic Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and develop the world's premier training resort for terrorism? Do you think they will be a threat to the US, or our economic interests, then?

Hey, none of us have all the information on these clowns. So I don't know how to destroy them or if we need to. But I don't give a shit how many tanks they have. Air superiority >>>>>>> tanks. Certainly, like any other campaign, you start out with aerial attacks. It has seemed to meet the short term objectives thus far by backing them off the Kurds.
Huh? :suspicious:

Assad was governing his people. So was Khan-daffy. Ditto Morsi in Egypt.

Yet we removed those guys. That makes your statement, "Or is their sole purpose to rid the world of people unlike them?" even more hilarious, don't you think? :suspicious: :lol:

As far as ISIS being a threat to the world, you have pretty much figured that out. They are armed with nothing but scraps...nothing that can reach us. So they aren't a threat, no more than the goat herders in Afghanistan that we keep killing.

But, we'll bomb them into submission...as we've done in Afghanistan. And Pakistan. And Libya. Or, we'll kill enough of them so that we can eventually leave...as we did in Iraq (how long have we been gone).

Yes, those scenarios are surely proof that we'll destroy ISIS with our mighty military efforts. :shock: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Let's keep gObombing and doing what we've been doing. It has worked so well. :thumb: :lol:

















On the other hand...where are they, ISIS, getting their funding? Surely we can bomb/take out the source(s) of their funding, right? I mean, we've seriously tried that already, correct? :suspicious:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by CAA Flagship »

First we bomb them. Then we send in these badass muthas. :nod:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X34OFJpnRwE[/youtube]




I recently watched the first 13 episodes on youtube. :thumb:
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

CAA Flagship wrote:First we bomb them. Then we send in these badass muthas. :nod:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X34OFJpnRwE[/youtube]




I recently watched the first 13 episodes on youtube. :thumb:
Loved that show! :nod: :notworthy:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
User avatar
Chizzang
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19274
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 am
I am a fan of: Deflate Gate
A.K.A.: The Quasar Kid
Location: Palermo Italy

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by Chizzang »

Cluck U wrote:
On the other hand...where are they, ISIS, getting their funding? Surely we can bomb/take out the source(s) of their funding, right? I mean, we've seriously tried that already, correct? :suspicious:
Of course you ALREADY know who's been funding ISIS (Answer: Saudi Arabia)

But we're in so tight with the house of Saud, even before sykes picot agreement (circa 1916)
there is no tracing the support back to Saudi Arabia for our intelligence Agencies because: NO... That's why

:coffee:
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Chizzang wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
On the other hand...where are they, ISIS, getting their funding? Surely we can bomb/take out the source(s) of their funding, right? I mean, we've seriously tried that already, correct? :suspicious:
Of course you ALREADY know who's been funding ISIS (Answer: Saudi Arabia)

But we're in so tight with the house of Saud, even before sykes picot agreement (circa 1916)
there is no tracing the support back to Saudi Arabia for our intelligence Agencies because: NO... That's why

:coffee:
Exactly.

There is no war on terror. We know where, "terror" gets its funding...we've know for a very long time, and we don't do a thing about it. In fact, we help fund it ourselves. :nod:

The hilarity is that the U.S. and Europe will target Putnin's funds, and their economy. But we won't touch the Saudis.

Last year, Israel said we should not fund/arm the Syrian rebels. Not that we should follow Israel's advice...but they had an opinion that was actually correct. They worried about that funding getting rerouted to the real bad guys (as in, not Assad's people). But, what the heck, Saudi Arabia publicly announced that they would fund and supply the rebels to help topple Assad, which was our STATED goal.

Everyone knew the area would turn into a shvthole...every single person knew what would happen.

Did we bomb Saudi Arabia? Did we intercept arms shipments? Did we try to stabilize the area? Did we send extra help to our Iraqi allies?

Nope. Instead, we helped the rebels.

Now, the area is a shvthole, and we're surprised? :suspicious:

A 30,000 man army doesn't pop up out of nowhere. It just doesn't. And two fully equipped Iraqi divisions, 20,000 troops, just don't turn tail and run at the sight of 800 people armed with a pickup truck with a mounted machine gun. And 800 people don't capture and hold a major city...and turn themselves into THE major threat in the world today. Not without support...and a little hype. :lol:

Beheading videos...well timed, don't you think? :rofl:

Bill Maher has a point...Saudi Arabia has beheaded 19 people recently, their women are whipped and put to death for having the audacity to be raped...and the world doesn't blink. :rofl:

So, let's review again, for context. Anyone can join in and help me see the light...

What direct threat does ISIS, located in a land locked sand pit, surrounded by their supposed enemies (who have FAR more troops and equipment available to them) pose to the U.S.? :suspicious:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

:shock: This is an EXCELLENT read...best read yet on the latest Middle East crisis. :nod: :thumb:

A long read...but well worth reading. Balanced (he attacks Bush, Obama, the Saudis, and the military industrial complex), and informative. :nod:

It is all worth reading, but here are a few excerpts:

"A couple weeks ago Saudi Arabia was warning against U.S. action against ISIL (ISIS, Islamic State) arguing that it would be perceived as a pro-Shiite intervention in a Sunni-Shiite conflict. Saudi Arabia is of course the land where the Prophet Mohammed lived, and the House of Saud sees itself as the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina. It is a bastion of Sunni orthodoxy; the Sharia is rigidly enforced. There are punitive stonings and beheadings. Women must wear the abaya and are forbidden to drive. Saudi Arabia was one of the very few countries that recognized and supported the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. In short, it has much in common with ISIL. Much of ISIL’s funding comes from private Saudi sources and “charities.”



George “Dubya” Bush gleefully destroyed the Iraqi state. He smashed a state in which Christians served in high posts, women attended college and felt free to leave their heads uncovered, rock n’ roll blared from radios, liquor stores operated legally, and there was even a gay scene. He replaced it with an occupation run by clueless cowboys literally marching around Baghdad in cowboy boots, issuing orders—most notably the orders of dissolution of the Baathist Party and the Iraqi Army.




The Sunnis violently resisted the Occupation. The Shiites, sensing opportunity, stood by looking sullen, then in response to Ayatollah al-Sistani’s call, mounted peaceful protests, demanding elections. After the Abu Ghraib torture photos scandalized the world, the U.S. was forced to allow elections for an Iraqi advisory body, dominated by Shiites, and to return sovereignty to a now-Shiite led regime in 2009. Meanwhile a Sunni-Shiite civil war broke out. The U.S. had opened a Pandora’s Box of ethnic strife, which continues. It is the gift that just keeps on giving.



Abu Musad al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian free-lance terrorist, decided to establish an Al-Qaeda branch in Iraq. He found ample support among the Sunnis of Anbar Province. His group was largely chased out during the U.S. “surge” of 2007, but found a home in Syria. In 2011, during the ill-fated “Arab Spring,” a pro-democracy, anti-corruption protest movement erupted in Syria. Obama announced that President Bashar Assad must resign. (Why? Here was another secularist, another Baathist, presiding over another country where women dress in Western fashions, go to college, drink beer and listen to rock n’ roll—a country striving for a normalized relationship with the U.S. but spurned by the State Department due to its opposition to Israel, which illegally occupies its Golan Heights, and due to its alliance with Iran).




While the Syrian Foreign Ministry has actually welcomed U.S. strikes against ISIL in the country, the president (and the Russians) have said they would be viewed as attacks on the Syrian state if not coordinated with Damascus. John Kerry rules such cooperation out, declaring Assad’s regime (despite the recent multiparty election, in which Assad received 88% of the votes) “illegitimate.” He further spurns a French suggestion that Iran be invited to a conference in Paris on Sept. 15 to discuss an international response to ISIL. Kerry, in his wooden way, responds: “The United States does not cooperate, militarily or otherwise, nor does it have any intention in this process of doing so, with Iran.”

(The Iranian deputy foreign minister retorted that the Paris meeting “has a selective guest list and is just for show.”)

Thus the U.S., waging war on regional secularists like Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad, thereby provoking sectarian war, declares it can defeat anti-Shiite Sunni extremism relying on Sunni allies (including the Shia-phobic, Sharia-implementing, adulteress-stoning Saudis) and European crusaders, plus (maybe) some Sunni Turks—alongside the mostly Sunni Kurdish peshmerga, Iraqi Shiite militias, and the so far embarrassing Iraqi Army. And at the same time it plans to build some reliable puppet force to topple Assad and (largely in response to Israeli demands) maintain pressure on Iran to end a non-existent nuclear weapons program or face bombing. The plan is patently unworkable and doomed.

“We will not be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq,” declares Obama (as though some external force had once hauled a reluctant U.S.—kicking and screaming—into the last war). But he has indeed announced a campaign of indefinite bombing of Iraq and Syria, and now his spokesman Josh Earnest declares,“In the same way that we are at war with al-Qaeda and its affiliates around the globe, we are at war with ISIL.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/15/ ... ia-divide/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This should be required reading for anyone involved in decision making regarding the area. :nod:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Another good read...done through maps.

http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-crisis-iraq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19511
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by SDHornet »

Cluck U wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: You sort of answered your own question here.
Why does ISIS seem to be growing more than the Taliban? Maybe because the Taliban has been forced into miserable living conditions while ISIS controls cities with modern conveniences. And ISIS has a better ability to generate revenue and seize assets because they control land and resources. The Taliban has been reduced to a mere pain in the ass. The Taliban will never be more than that unless they control quality land and resources (maybe once we leave the region).
Land and resources. If you let these bastards control them, they will become a threat.
:suspicious:

Iran controls land and resources. Lebanon controls land and resources. Saudi Arabia controls land and resources. Bahrain controls land and resources. Sadaam controlled land and resources. Qwaduffy controlled land and resources. Assad controlled land and resources.

And they are/were a direct threat to whom? :suspicious:

ISIS didn't just suddenly pop up with 30,000 soldiers, as the CIA now says they have. :lol:

Where did they get their weapons? Where did they get their initial funding? Are they planning on driving a Humvee across the Atlantic?

How do they have such huge...tracts of land?

Are you telling me that with all of our intelligence capabilities in that region, that suddenly a 30,000 man army popped up and took control of a chunk of territory about the size of Nebraska? :suspicious:

We had a #1 enemy...Assad...that was our primary focus. It was our intent to remove this threat from office. But wait...there is suddenly another enemy even more powerful (with a whole 30,000 strong army - that is comical on so many levels), that needs to be dealt with ASAP.

Of course, the Iraqi army, which we funded and trained for how many years, can't handle these ISIS super soldiers. And Assad, who we degraded, but then he regraded, can't handle these ISIS super soldiers. And the Kurds, who we armed and support, can't handle these ISIS super soldiers. And the Syrian rebels, who we armed (yes we did, though our good friend Saudi Arabia, among others), can't handle these ISIS super soldiers.

In other words, we have ISIS surrounded by people we've armed and trained, and also by Assad's forces, who the Russians armed and trained, and yet ISIS, all 21,000 to 30,000 of them, are the biggest threat the free world's seen in...well, at least a few months.

ISIS must be THE focus, and we must spend hundreds of millions of dollars of our military industrial complex's best weapons, to quell ISIS...or else they'll be on our shores and raising their flag over 'Merica, specifically Washington, D.C. (as one of our esteemed Congressmen said). :shock:

In the meantime, our oil bloated Muslin allies, with all of their shiny new oil revenue purchesd F-15s (some of which were just used to bomb some bad guys in Libya....oops!) and Abrams tanks, and our Muslin brothers in Turkey, and our Israeli allies, and the rest of the free world, and the dictator in Russia (who, closer to the action, must surely be concerned about ISIS), are doing exactly what, to defeat these 20,000 - 30,000 pop-up super soldiers? :suspicious:


C'mon, man...my sides are splitting! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm not buying this ISIS threat one bit. Comical that another "threat" appeared out of thin air.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by houndawg »

dbackjon wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:A person entering these regions should reasonably know the risks. If harm comes their way, they either:

1. Are foolish or an idiot.
2. Took a gamble and lost.
3. Are attempting to aid the enemy.

Tough. Buh bye!

So we shouldn't go to war with NK over this guy?
After entering North Korea on April 10, Miller, who is from Bakersfield, opted to not travel with staff from the American company that organized his trip or with other Western tourists but only with North Korean guides. It is less common and more expensive for Western tourists to travel only with guides from the North.

While traveling, Miller reportedly tore up his visa and declared himself “not a tourist.” The court said he intended to “experience prison life so that he could investigate the human rights situation."
http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't think NK has enough natural resources to make it profitable. Now if he happened to be near somewhere we want to build a pipeline we might be able to make a case...
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Americans Held Captive: Expectations

Post by kalm »

Cluck U wrote::shock: This is an EXCELLENT read...best read yet on the latest Middle East crisis. :nod: :thumb:

A long read...but well worth reading. Balanced (he attacks Bush, Obama, the Saudis, and the military industrial complex), and informative. :nod:

It is all worth reading, but here are a few excerpts:

"A couple weeks ago Saudi Arabia was warning against U.S. action against ISIL (ISIS, Islamic State) arguing that it would be perceived as a pro-Shiite intervention in a Sunni-Shiite conflict. Saudi Arabia is of course the land where the Prophet Mohammed lived, and the House of Saud sees itself as the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina. It is a bastion of Sunni orthodoxy; the Sharia is rigidly enforced. There are punitive stonings and beheadings. Women must wear the abaya and are forbidden to drive. Saudi Arabia was one of the very few countries that recognized and supported the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. In short, it has much in common with ISIL. Much of ISIL’s funding comes from private Saudi sources and “charities.”



George “Dubya” Bush gleefully destroyed the Iraqi state. He smashed a state in which Christians served in high posts, women attended college and felt free to leave their heads uncovered, rock n’ roll blared from radios, liquor stores operated legally, and there was even a gay scene. He replaced it with an occupation run by clueless cowboys literally marching around Baghdad in cowboy boots, issuing orders—most notably the orders of dissolution of the Baathist Party and the Iraqi Army.




The Sunnis violently resisted the Occupation. The Shiites, sensing opportunity, stood by looking sullen, then in response to Ayatollah al-Sistani’s call, mounted peaceful protests, demanding elections. After the Abu Ghraib torture photos scandalized the world, the U.S. was forced to allow elections for an Iraqi advisory body, dominated by Shiites, and to return sovereignty to a now-Shiite led regime in 2009. Meanwhile a Sunni-Shiite civil war broke out. The U.S. had opened a Pandora’s Box of ethnic strife, which continues. It is the gift that just keeps on giving.



Abu Musad al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian free-lance terrorist, decided to establish an Al-Qaeda branch in Iraq. He found ample support among the Sunnis of Anbar Province. His group was largely chased out during the U.S. “surge” of 2007, but found a home in Syria. In 2011, during the ill-fated “Arab Spring,” a pro-democracy, anti-corruption protest movement erupted in Syria. Obama announced that President Bashar Assad must resign. (Why? Here was another secularist, another Baathist, presiding over another country where women dress in Western fashions, go to college, drink beer and listen to rock n’ roll—a country striving for a normalized relationship with the U.S. but spurned by the State Department due to its opposition to Israel, which illegally occupies its Golan Heights, and due to its alliance with Iran).




While the Syrian Foreign Ministry has actually welcomed U.S. strikes against ISIL in the country, the president (and the Russians) have said they would be viewed as attacks on the Syrian state if not coordinated with Damascus. John Kerry rules such cooperation out, declaring Assad’s regime (despite the recent multiparty election, in which Assad received 88% of the votes) “illegitimate.” He further spurns a French suggestion that Iran be invited to a conference in Paris on Sept. 15 to discuss an international response to ISIL. Kerry, in his wooden way, responds: “The United States does not cooperate, militarily or otherwise, nor does it have any intention in this process of doing so, with Iran.”

(The Iranian deputy foreign minister retorted that the Paris meeting “has a selective guest list and is just for show.”)

Thus the U.S., waging war on regional secularists like Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad, thereby provoking sectarian war, declares it can defeat anti-Shiite Sunni extremism relying on Sunni allies (including the Shia-phobic, Sharia-implementing, adulteress-stoning Saudis) and European crusaders, plus (maybe) some Sunni Turks—alongside the mostly Sunni Kurdish peshmerga, Iraqi Shiite militias, and the so far embarrassing Iraqi Army. And at the same time it plans to build some reliable puppet force to topple Assad and (largely in response to Israeli demands) maintain pressure on Iran to end a non-existent nuclear weapons program or face bombing. The plan is patently unworkable and doomed.

“We will not be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq,” declares Obama (as though some external force had once hauled a reluctant U.S.—kicking and screaming—into the last war). But he has indeed announced a campaign of indefinite bombing of Iraq and Syria, and now his spokesman Josh Earnest declares,“In the same way that we are at war with al-Qaeda and its affiliates around the globe, we are at war with ISIL.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/15/ ... ia-divide/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This should be required reading for anyone involved in decision making regarding the area. :nod:
Especially Lindsey Graham.

Great fucking read. Our leadership...wait... :ohno:
Image
Image
Image
Post Reply