Leftist Organized Attempt To Revise College Currcula/Content

[kalm]

Ronald Reagan, May 17, 1981:

"The years ahead will be great ones for our country, for the cause of freedom and the spread of civilization. The West will not contain Communism; it will transcend Communism. We will not bother to denounce it, we'll dismiss it as a sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written."

The left's general reaction: the President is a naive and dangerous statesman operating under the deluded assumption that the Soviet Union is going to go away.

Today, the left says the demise of the USSR was inevitable.

I was a high school senior during Reagan's last term. Do I have to still be tied to the left's position back then or is it ok to use history?

[D1B]

Ronald Reagan, May 17, 1981:

"The years ahead will be great ones for our country, for the cause of freedom and the spread of civilization. The West will not contain Communism; it will transcend Communism. We will not bother to denounce it, we'll dismiss it as a sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written."

The left's general reaction: the President is a naive and dangerous statesman operating under the deluded assumption that the Soviet Union is going to go away.

Today, the left says the demise of the USSR was inevitable.

Hey, I thought Saint Pedophile (JPII) singlehandedly brought down communism? Remember that fucking lie you told? One of many.

[D1B]

Typical conk lazy ass. Provided you with your requested info.

Wasting time by incessant lies...

Lazy conk.

[travelinman67]

Wasting time by incessant lies...

Lazy conk.

Dishonest D.

[kalm]

I answered your challenge, trollapotamus.

No, you did not. You cited a wikipedia cover of some quack sandwich-board wearing "apocalypse is near" idiot who, in 1978, predicted the collapse of capitalism AND communism within 50 years.

Grow up or shut up, Klam.

Yawn...

You laid the parameters there slick.

Conk saints like Allen Greenspan made claims of perpetual growth in the early to mid 2000's too. Batra destroyed those myths as well.

Now that you've moved the goal posts, would you like some more examples of how communism was bound to fail? Or do you want to keep arguing for its attributes?

[travelinman67]

The USSR was crumbling in the 70's. That's not a lie, that's an historical opinion.

Next!

Source?

Cite ONE source that supports KLAM'S assertion that the U.S.S.R.'s collapse was inevitable and not significantly hastened by Reagan's hardline policy.

Just ONE!

I'll take anything!

Mother Jones, Pravda, Xinhua, Howard Zinn, Saul Alinsky, Time...anything.

To
Refresh
Your
Memory


Posting Apocalypto/Nostradamos "End is near" bullshit does not support your assertion that Reagan's hardline policy DIDN'T hasten collapse of U.S.S.R.

[JoltinJoe]

Ronald Reagan, May 17, 1981:

"The years ahead will be great ones for our country, for the cause of freedom and the spread of civilization. The West will not contain Communism; it will transcend Communism. We will not bother to denounce it, we'll dismiss it as a sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written."

The left's general reaction: the President is a naive and dangerous statesman operating under the deluded assumption that the Soviet Union is going to go away.

Today, the left says the demise of the USSR was inevitable.

Hey, I thought Saint Pedophile (JPII) singlehandedly brought down communism? Remember that **** lie you told? One of many.

Hey, we get that the only thing you hate more than Catholics are facts.

JPII played a critical role in the fall of Communism and, if you don't think so, then you are stupid.

[JoltinJoe]

Ronald Reagan, May 17, 1981:

"The years ahead will be great ones for our country, for the cause of freedom and the spread of civilization. The West will not contain Communism; it will transcend Communism. We will not bother to denounce it, we'll dismiss it as a sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written."

The left's general reaction: the President is a naive and dangerous statesman operating under the deluded assumption that the Soviet Union is going to go away.

Today, the left says the demise of the USSR was inevitable.

I was a high school senior during Reagan's last term. Do I have to still be tied to the left's position back then or is it ok to use history?

No.

Like the rest of the left, not only can you pretend that Reagan had little to do with the fall of Communism, you can also pretend you believed, as far back as the 1970s, that the fall of Communism was inevitable.

However, left me say, I was a college lefty who laughed when Reagan called the coming fall of Communism, but I am now willing to admit that we were wrong about Reagan and Communism.

[D1B]

Hey, I thought Saint Pedophile (JPII) singlehandedly brought down communism? Remember that **** lie you told? One of many.

Hey, we get that the only thing you hate more than Catholics are facts.

JPII played a critical role in the fall of Communism and, if you don't think so, then you are stupid.

Hey, we get that the only thing you love more than Sunday cannibalism is lying your ass off to defend nonsense, whether here or to your children.

Saint Pedophile's role in the fall of communism is just as overblown and mythical as Reagan's and that cunt, Maggie Thatcher's. Three anti-human buffoons who tried to take credit from the millions of hero's in the trenches who TRULY HAD THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE. Shameful fucks.

More on Joe's big lie...

PBS Frontline

Authors: Jane Barnes and Helen Whitney
John Paul II and the Fall of Communism

Certain American journalists have fostered a myth about John Paul II's role in the fall of Communism. They depict him as a lonely hero in a cold war thriller, a priest who from the start was slipping in and out of darkened doorways in the war against the Evil Empire. At the moment of perfect ripeness, Karol Wojtyla has himself elected Pope, flies home and ignites the fuse he spent years fashioning. If the myth were pitched as a feature film, it would be John Wayne meets John Le Carre.

Bits and pieces of the myth are in Malachi Martin's conspiracy-haunted The Keys of the Blood and in Carl Bernstein's controversial account of the Pope and the CIA, His Holiness. But it is nowhere so completely realized, so fully, even encyclopedically documented as in Jonathan Kwitny's Man of the Century. In its preface, he sets out his hero's unwavering path: "Karol Wojtyla, as bishop of Krakow, forged the Solidarity revolution--in his philosophy classes, his community synods, his secret ordination of priests, his clandestine communications seminars, the smuggling network he oversaw throughout the Eastern Bloc...In interviews, colleagues reveal how Wojtyla guided them in a major hunger strike that was the Boston Tea Party of the Solidarity revolution and handed out envelopes of cash to sustain their work. Time and time again, as pope, he single-handedly rescued the revolution he begat."

Man of the Century was published in 1997, just as we started the research period for our documentary on John Paul II. It was one of the books we read and reread in preparation for going to Poland. Our consultant, Tad Szulc, urged caution. In researching his own biography of John Paul II, John Paul II, he had not found Kwitny's near perfect arc of engagement from seminary to the free elections that ended Communism in Poland in 1989. We listened to Szulc, who felt there were many forces at work in the end of Soviet rule. But we were still intrigued by Kwitny's model. Our interview list for the "SOLIDARITY" section of the program drew heavily on people in Kwitny's book who described transforming political encounters with Wojtyla. By comparison to most continental writers (who differed slightly from Szulc), we knew Kwitny saw the Pope through an American lens--a rugged individualist, a man of action almost more than a man of the cloth. European journalists, biographers, and writers as different as Timothy Garton Ash, Michael Walsh and Leszek Kolakowski, all saw Wojtyla enmeshed in the Polish Church, lifted on a historic tide sweeping all Catholics, as well as Communists, before it. These observers agreed that although John Paul II's influence as Pope was real and far-reaching, his part as priest in the resistance was much more nuanced than Kwitny claimed. However, since Man of the Century included a massive amount of new investigative reporting, we felt we were tracking the story with the more dramatic cutting edge.
Wojtyla encouraged arguments about politics, religion, even relationships. People could let down their guards in the 'zones of freedom' that Wojtyla created around himself. It was quickly clear that the story was not going to hold. Time had passed. Some of Kwitny's characters were so old and sick, they simply did not remember what they had said to the former Wall Street Journal reporter. Younger people told us the same stories, but aimlessly, often without the point Kwitny had given them in print. We heard many woolly memories of Wojtyla's protective attitude toward endangered dissidents--but nothing so concrete as Kwitny's account of Wojtyla inspiring the hunger strike.

Then we began to find real, disturbing errors of fact. Kwitny identifies Joanna Szczesna, a leading Polish intellectual and an important veteran of the resistance, as Jewish. In truth, she's Catholic. She laughed when we showed her the reference, but she might not have. Given the tortured and explosive history of Catholic-Jewish relations in Poland--the abyss which painfully separates the two worlds--Kwitny's mistake here was a significant error with potential repercussions both personal and professional.

Szczesna was also baffled by Kwitny's claim that Wojtyla had "guided" the St. Martin's strike. "We didn't know Wojtyla much then," she said. "He was in Krakow, a world away from us in Warsaw. He was not one of the political priests." But Kwitny insists that he was, backing his assertion with, among other illustrations, a story of how Wojtyla worked hard to persuade Tadeusz Mazowiecki to participate in the strike. Mazowiecki was a Prime Minister after the fall of Communism and is still an official in the Polish government. Tadeusz could not remember speaking with Wojtyla before taking his courageous stand in the church. Mazowiecki was quite skeptical about Wojtyla having any role whatsoever in that action.

Our darkest moment came in our final interview with Father Bardeicki, Kwitny's source for Wojtyla's most important clandestine activities. We had interviewed Father Bardeicki at length about the role of the Catholic Church in Polish nationalism, history in the Polish imagination, and the Church's fight against the Communists. This time we asked him outright about Wojtyla's place in the resistance. Had he ever secretly ordained priests in Czechoslovakia? "No, never," Father Bardeicki replied mildly. Had Wojtyla ever sent Father Bardeicki to the Ukraine to gather intelligence on the Church there? "No. I was only in the Ukraine before the war when it was part of Poland. After the lines were redrawn, we were not allowed to go." Did Wojtyla oversee a vast smuggling operation throughout Eastern Europe? "Smuggling Bibles and literature happened," Father Bardeicki assured us. "But it was Wyszynski's operation, Wojtyla was just a parish priest." Of such anti-answers, cold war thrillers are not made

[travelinman67]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

[D1B]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.

Communism would have ended years earlier throughout most of Eastern Europe but for the belief, based on experience, that any attempt to discard Communist rule there would produce Soviet armed intervention to reimpose it. Thus the change in the USSR was the crucial facilitating condition for all that happened in 1989. That Gorbachev – a radical reformer holding the most powerful office within the system – played the decisive role in all of this has become increasingly accepted, even by authors who have focused mainly on the process of change throughout Eastern Europe during 1989, such as Robin Okey (The Demise of Communist East Europe: 1989 in Context, Arnold, 2004). The role of the last Soviet leader is examined more fully in my The Gorbachev Factor (Oxford University Press, 1996). Claims have also been made for the importance of the part played by President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II, but Reagan elicited no positive change in the Soviet Union from the first three of the four Soviet leaders with whom he overlapped. Things changed only after Gorbachev came to power. The pope helped to inspire the rise of Solidarity, but was powerless to prevent the imposition of martial law in December 1981, which outlawed the organisation. It re-emerged as a serious force within Polish society only three years after the launch of the Soviet perestroika in 1985 – the reform of the system that by 1988 was turning into fundamental transformation.

http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

[travelinman67]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.

Communism would have ended years earlier throughout most of Eastern Europe but for the belief, based on experience, that any attempt to discard Communist rule there would produce Soviet armed intervention to reimpose it. Thus the change in the USSR was the crucial facilitating condition for all that happened in 1989. That Gorbachev – a radical reformer holding the most powerful office within the system – played the decisive role in all of this has become increasingly accepted, even by authors who have focused mainly on the process of change throughout Eastern Europe during 1989, such as Robin Okey (The Demise of Communist East Europe: 1989 in Context, Arnold, 2004). The role of the last Soviet leader is examined more fully in my The Gorbachev Factor (Oxford University Press, 1996). Claims have also been made for the importance of the part played by President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II, but Reagan elicited no positive change in the Soviet Union from the first three of the four Soviet leaders with whom he overlapped. Things changed only after Gorbachev came to power. The pope helped to inspire the rise of Solidarity, but was powerless to prevent the imposition of martial law in December 1981, which outlawed the organisation. It re-emerged as a serious force within Polish society only three years after the launch of the Soviet perestroika in 1985 – the reform of the system that by 1988 was turning into fundamental transformation.

http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

Hey! You finally did some research!

Since you agree that all glory goes to Gorby...

...then it would follow suit Gorby's acknowledging Reagan's hard line arms race led to his introduction of economic reforms, perestroika, and ultimately his decision NOT TO SEND MILITARY FORCES into Eastern Europe to suppress demonstrations, ultimately resulting in the Velvet Revolution...

...Thanks Gipper!

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/ ... mpa03.html

[D1B]

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.



http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

Hey! You finally did some research!

Since you agree that all glory goes to Gorby...

...then it would follow suit Gorby's acknowledging Reagan's hard line arms race led to his introduction of economic reforms, perestroika, and ultimately his decision NOT TO SEND MILITARY FORCES into Eastern Europe to suppress demonstrations, ultimately resulting in the Velvet Revolution...

...Thanks Gipper!

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/ ... mpa03.html

Nope. Synchophantic ramblings I already mentioned and predicted you'd fall back on.

Nice try Tfail67.

[travelinman67]

Hey! You finally did some research!

Since you agree that all glory goes to Gorby...

...then it would follow suit Gorby's acknowledging Reagan's hard line arms race led to his introduction of economic reforms, perestroika, and ultimately his decision NOT TO SEND MILITARY FORCES into Eastern Europe to suppress demonstrations, ultimately resulting in the Velvet Revolution...

...Thanks Gipper!

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/ ... mpa03.html

Nope. Synchophantic ramblings I already mentioned and predicted you'd fall back on.

Nice try Tfail67.

Translation: "I refuse to read anything which contradicts my myopic opinion."

[D1B]

Nope. Synchophantic ramblings I already mentioned and predicted you'd fall back on.

Nice try Tfail67.

Translation: "I refuse to read anything which contradicts my myopic opinion."

I read the whole thing. It's boilerplate conk hero worship.

I bet it was written by one of the brownshirts in your car club.

[travelinman67]

Translation: "I refuse to read anything which contradicts my myopic opinion."

I read the whole thing. It's boilerplate conk hero worship.

Well, you didn't read it but your lying has become your trademark.

The article's author notably quotes John Gaddis, Pulitzer Prize winning historian...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_Gaddis

Gaddis has written in exhaustively about The End of the Cold War, providing specifics to support his analysis and conclusions: You might try it sometime.

Now, put the meth away and get some sleep.

[D1B]

I read the whole thing. It's boilerplate conk hero worship.

Well, you didn't read it but your lying has become your trademark.

The article's author notably quotes John Gaddis, Pulitzer Prize winning historian...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_Gaddis

Gaddis has written in exhaustively about The End of the Cold War, providing specifics to support his analysis and conclusions: You might try it sometime.

Now, put the meth away and get some sleep.

My dog has a Pullitzer Prize. Big fucking deal.

For every Reagan hero worship jack towel you cite, I can find a balanced source properly crediting the right people and circumstances.

You need to open your fucking eyes and remove your head from Joltin Joes bunger.

[D1B]

I read the whole thing. It's boilerplate conk hero worship.

Well, you didn't read it but your lying has become your trademark.

The article's author notably quotes John Gaddis, Pulitzer Prize winning historian...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_Gaddis

Gaddis has written in exhaustively eabout The End of the Cold War, providing specifics to support his analysis and conclusions: You might try it sometime.

Now, put the meth away and get some sleep.

Excerpt from Trivialman's source.

Gaddis is also known for his close relationship with the late George Kennan and his wife, whom Gaddis described as "my companions".[14] He was also fairly close to President George W. Bush, making suggestions to his speech writers,[15] and has been described as an "overt admirer" of the 43rd President.[16] After leaving office, Bush took up painting as a hobby at Gaddis's recommendation.[17]

Tampon67, PM me if you want me to explain what a sycophant is.

[houndawg]

Well, you didn't read it but your lying has become your trademark.

The article's author notably quotes John Gaddis, Pulitzer Prize winning historian...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_Gaddis

Gaddis has written in exhaustively eabout The End of the Cold War, providing specifics to support his analysis and conclusions: You might try it sometime.

Now, put the meth away and get some sleep.

Excerpt from Trivialman's source.

Gaddis is also known for his close relationship with the late George Kennan and his wife, whom Gaddis described as "my companions".[14] He was also fairly close to President George W. Bush, making suggestions to his speech writers,[15] and has been described as an "overt admirer" of the 43rd President.[16] After leaving office, Bush took up painting as a hobby at Gaddis's recommendation.[17]

Tampon67, PM me if you want me to explain what a sycophant is.

uptight and outtasight!

[houndawg]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.

Communism would have ended years earlier throughout most of Eastern Europe but for the belief, based on experience, that any attempt to discard Communist rule there would produce Soviet armed intervention to reimpose it. Thus the change in the USSR was the crucial facilitating condition for all that happened in 1989. That Gorbachev – a radical reformer holding the most powerful office within the system – played the decisive role in all of this has become increasingly accepted, even by authors who have focused mainly on the process of change throughout Eastern Europe during 1989, such as Robin Okey (The Demise of Communist East Europe: 1989 in Context, Arnold, 2004). The role of the last Soviet leader is examined more fully in my The Gorbachev Factor (Oxford University Press, 1996). Claims have also been made for the importance of the part played by President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II, but Reagan elicited no positive change in the Soviet Union from the first three of the four Soviet leaders with whom he overlapped. Things changed only after Gorbachev came to power. The pope helped to inspire the rise of Solidarity, but was powerless to prevent the imposition of martial law in December 1981, which outlawed the organisation. It re-emerged as a serious force within Polish society only three years after the launch of the Soviet perestroika in 1985 – the reform of the system that by 1988 was turning into fundamental transformation.

http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

I have to dispute this claim. Tbaggedby67 a bigger asshole than JSO? I think JSO takes him if we put it to a vote.

[kalm]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.

Communism would have ended years earlier throughout most of Eastern Europe but for the belief, based on experience, that any attempt to discard Communist rule there would produce Soviet armed intervention to reimpose it. Thus the change in the USSR was the crucial facilitating condition for all that happened in 1989. That Gorbachev – a radical reformer holding the most powerful office within the system – played the decisive role in all of this has become increasingly accepted, even by authors who have focused mainly on the process of change throughout Eastern Europe during 1989, such as Robin Okey (The Demise of Communist East Europe: 1989 in Context, Arnold, 2004). The role of the last Soviet leader is examined more fully in my The Gorbachev Factor (Oxford University Press, 1996). Claims have also been made for the importance of the part played by President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II, but Reagan elicited no positive change in the Soviet Union from the first three of the four Soviet leaders with whom he overlapped. Things changed only after Gorbachev came to power. The pope helped to inspire the rise of Solidarity, but was powerless to prevent the imposition of martial law in December 1981, which outlawed the organisation. It re-emerged as a serious force within Polish society only three years after the launch of the Soviet perestroika in 1985 – the reform of the system that by 1988 was turning into fundamental transformation.

http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

T(roll)man,

You asked for one source, any source. I used Ravi Batra because he's a distinguished economist that also predicted the great recession. But there's clearly more legitimate historians and economists who saw the fall of the Soviet Union. Why? Because the system was unsustainable, they were crumbling from the inside. Ironically, we now find ourselves with you arguing for the sustainability of communism…I guess.

Joe,

Please point out where I claimed "Reagan had little to do with the fall of Communism"? Reagan, at the least, precipitated the fall. I was simply making a point to Tman that history is a funny thing, full of opinions. He thinks the conk view of history is a slam dunk fact. I challenged it and boy howdy, you guys didn't like that.

Try reading the whole thread before posting next time.

[kalm]

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.



http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

I have to dispute this claim. Tbaggedby67 a bigger asshole than JSO? I think JSO takes him if we put it to a vote.

Assholes are some of my favorite peeps. As long as they know they are assholes. It's the assholes that don't know they're assholes who bother me. I'd like to think both these guys realize they're assholes.

[JoltinJoe]

PBS Frontline

Frontline? What a joke of a show.

Reading your transcript, I see no mention of the KGB's assassination attempt on the Pope. I wonder why. And why, if the Pope was having no influence, did the KGB try to kill him?

Also, see what Lech Walesa has to say about the significance of the Pope's role in the fall of Communism.

D, it must be tiring trying to re-write history to fit your narrow world outlook.

[JoltinJoe]

D, still failing to respond to the topic of this thread, and further, the attempts by leftists to deny Reagan's role in collapsing the U.S.S.R.

And, BTW D, your PBS transcript only states that sources for a book supporting JPII's roll in the fall of communism gave arguably different information when re-interviewed by antagonist reporters decades later.

NOT disproving Wojtyla's contributions to Solidarity and ultimately the collapse of communism.

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.

Communism would have ended years earlier throughout most of Eastern Europe but for the belief, based on experience, that any attempt to discard Communist rule there would produce Soviet armed intervention to reimpose it. Thus the change in the USSR was the crucial facilitating condition for all that happened in 1989. That Gorbachev – a radical reformer holding the most powerful office within the system – played the decisive role in all of this has become increasingly accepted, even by authors who have focused mainly on the process of change throughout Eastern Europe during 1989, such as Robin Okey (The Demise of Communist East Europe: 1989 in Context, Arnold, 2004). The role of the last Soviet leader is examined more fully in my The Gorbachev Factor (Oxford University Press, 1996). Claims have also been made for the importance of the part played by President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II, but Reagan elicited no positive change in the Soviet Union from the first three of the four Soviet leaders with whom he overlapped. Things changed only after Gorbachev came to power. The pope helped to inspire the rise of Solidarity, but was powerless to prevent the imposition of martial law in December 1981, which outlawed the organisation. It re-emerged as a serious force within Polish society only three years after the launch of the Soviet perestroika in 1985 – the reform of the system that by 1988 was turning into fundamental transformation.

http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

The part in bold is pretty silly. Do you recall how effective martial law was in Poland? To say Solidarity disappeared and re-emerged as a serious force only after perestroika was introduced by Gorbachev is a ridiculous revision of the truth. Solidarity not only remained a vital force in Polish society, its leaders were being honored all over the world even though many were imprisoned, and "illegal" labor movements took root in other Soviet bloc nations. Meanwhile, the Pope continued to speak out, quite effectively, about oppression of human rights in the Eastern bloc nations -- so much so that the KGB tried to assassinate him 18 months after the imposition of martial law in Poland.

Lech Walesa: "The rest is history, but the Holy Father's role was enormous and pivotal. He gave this process the powerful momentum it needed and I believe without him, this change would have never happened."

[D1B]

Titonman67,

Again proving he's not only the dumbest poster but also the biggest asshole.

Thatcher, Reagan and Saint Pedophile were scrambling like hungry rats for credit for taking down communism. Fact.

Narratives written by paid sycophants serve as fact for retarded lemmings like Tball and Joltin Joe. Fact is, was, and will always be, in any revolution credit belongs to those with their asses on the line. None of those three had it. Fact.

Here's why communism, well European communism, fell.



http://www.historytoday.com/archie-brow ... hen-it-did" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gorby kicks all ass.

The part in bold is pretty silly. Do you recall how effective martial law was in Poland? To say Solidarity disappeared and re-emerged as a serious force only after perestroika was introduced by Gorbachev is a ridiculous revision of the truth. Solidarity not only remained a vital force in Polish society, its leaders were being honored all over the world even though many were imprisoned, and "illegal" labor movements took root in other Soviet bloc nations. Meanwhile, the Pope continued to speak out, quite effectively, about oppression of human rights in the Eastern bloc nations -- so much so that the KGB tried to assassinate him 18 months after the imposition of martial law in Poland.

Lech Walesa: "The rest is history, but the Holy Father's role was enormous and pivotal. He gave this process the powerful momentum it needed and I believe without him, this change would have never happened."

And so the Catholic world turns.....


Catholics lying their asses off to deify their employees has been going on for 2000 years.

Saint Pedophile is currently undergoing a criminal level of rehabilitation, including the lie that he was a significant force in ending communism in Europe.

Keep spinning, Catholic Joe.