Mondragon Corporation

Political discussions
Post Reply
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Mondragon Corporation

Post by kalm »

I like capitalism and competition, but it's hard to not pause and take notice of the success that Mondragon Co-Op has enjoyed. They pump tons of resources into R&D, continue to evolve, provide a high degree of job security and profit sharing, and count Microsoft as one of they're research partners. I read an article not that long ago where similar co-ops were being started in NYC and were helping lift many people out of poverty.

I'm not sure if it's an alternative to capitalism as the author suggests, but I don't see much wrong with it either.
Modern societies have mostly chosen a capitalist organization of production. In capitalism, private owners establish enterprises and select their directors who decide what, how and where to produce and what to do with the net revenues from selling the output. This small handful of people makes all those economic decisions for the majority of people – who do most of the actual productive work. The majority must accept and live with the results of all the directorial decisions made by the major shareholders and the boards of directors they select. This latter also select their own replacements.

Capitalism thus entails and reproduces a highly undemocratic organization of production inside enterprises. Tina believers insist that no alternatives to such capitalist organizations of production exist or could work nearly so well, in terms of outputs, efficiency, and labor processes. The falsity of that claim is easily shown. Indeed, I was shown it a few weeks ago and would like to sketch it for you here……..

As each enterprise is a constituent of the MC as a whole, its members must confer and decide with all other enterprise members what general rules will govern MC and all its constituent enterprises. In short, MC worker-members collectively choose, hire and fire the directors, whereas in capitalist enterprises the reverse occurs. One of the co-operatively and democratically adopted rules governing the MC limits top-paid worker/members to earning 6.5 times the lowest-paid workers. Nothing more dramatically demonstrates the differences distinguishing this from the capitalist alternative organization of enterprises. (In US corporations, CEOs can expect to be paid 400 times an average worker's salary – a rate that has increased 20-fold since 1965.)

Given that MC has 85,000 members (from its 2010 annual report), its pay equity rules can and do contribute to a larger society with far greater income and wealth equality than is typical in societies that have chosen capitalist organizations of enterprises. Over 43% of MC members are women, whose equal powers with male members likewise influence gender relations in society different from capitalist enterprises.

MC displays a commitment to job security I have rarely encountered in capitalist enterprises: it operates across, as well as within, particular cooperative enterprises. MC members created a system to move workers from enterprises needing fewer to those needing more workers – in a remarkably open, transparent, rule-governed way and with associated travel and other subsidies to minimize hardship. This security-focused system has transformed the lives of workers, their families, and communities, also in unique ways.
Modern societies have mostly chosen a capitalist organization of production. In capitalism, private owners establish enterprises and select their directors who decide what, how and where to produce and what to do with the net revenues from selling the output. This small handful of people makes all those economic decisions for the majority of people – who do most of the actual productive work. The majority must accept and live with the results of all the directorial decisions made by the major shareholders and the boards of directors they select. This latter also select their own replacements.

Capitalism thus entails and reproduces a highly undemocratic organization of production inside enterprises. Tina believers insist that no alternatives to such capitalist organizations of production exist or could work nearly so well, in terms of outputs, efficiency, and labor processes. The falsity of that claim is easily shown. Indeed, I was shown it a few weeks ago and would like to sketch it for you here.
MC is composed of many co-operative enterprises grouped into four areas: industry, finance, retail and knowledge. In each enterprise, the co-op members (averaging 80-85% of all workers per enterprise) collectively own and direct the enterprise. Through an annual general assembly the workers choose and employ a managing director and retain the power to make all the basic decisions of the enterprise (what, how and where to produce and what to do with the profits).

The MC rule that all enterprises are to source their inputs from the best and least-costly producers – whether or not those are also MC enterprises – has kept MC at the cutting edge of new technologies. Likewise, the decision to use of a portion of each member enterprise's net revenue as a fund for research and development has funded impressive new product development. R&D within MC now employs 800 people with a budget over $75m. In 2010, 21.4% of sales of MC industries were new products and services that did not exist five years earlier. In addition, MC established and has expanded Mondragon University; it enrolled over 3,400 students in its 2009-2010 academic year, and its degree programs conform to the requirements of the European framework of higher education. Total student enrollment in all its educational centers in 2010 was 9,282.

The largest corporation in the Basque region, MC is also one of Spain's top ten biggest corporations (in terms of sales or employment). Far better than merely surviving since its founding in 1956, MC has grown dramatically. Along the way, it added a co-operative bank, Caja Laboral (holding almost $25bn in deposits in 2010). And MC has expanded internationally, now operating over 77 businesses outside Spain. MC has proven itself able to grow and prosper as an alternative to – and competitor of – capitalist organizations of enterprise.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -mondragon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image
Image
Image
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

I can't get past you saying you like capitalism and competition. :coffee:
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

So let me get this straight. They let workers who are not qualified to make important business decisions, make important business decisions. Isn't that the same model that developed the power two-party system and elected Obama? It's either short-term luck or bullshit.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by kalm »

CAA Flagship wrote:I can't get past you saying you like capitalism and competition. :coffee:
Gee, I didn't see that one coming...

Btw, how is Mondragon doing compared to the non-worker managed companies in Spain? :coffee: Their workers don't make day to day operational decisions, but their managers are held more accountable and can't retire with golden parachutes after they've fucked the company...
Image
Image
Image
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:I can't get past you saying you like capitalism and competition. :coffee:
Gee, I didn't see that one coming...

Btw, how is Mondragon doing compared to the non-worker managed companies in Spain? :coffee: Their workers don't make day to day operational decisions, but their managers are held more accountable and can't retire with golden parachutes after they've fucked the company...
So the story is bullshit then. :coffee:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by kalm »

CAA Flagship wrote:
kalm wrote:
Gee, I didn't see that one coming...

Btw, how is Mondragon doing compared to the non-worker managed companies in Spain? :coffee: Their workers don't make day to day operational decisions, but their managers are held more accountable and can't retire with golden parachutes after they've fucked the company...
So the story is bullshit then. :coffee:
They've been around since 1956. :coffee:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Pwns
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7344
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Friggin' Southern
A.K.A.: FCS_pwns_FBS (AGS)

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Pwns »

So kalm, will you democritize your business and stop being a greedy and oppressive 1 percenter?
Celebrate Diversity.*
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: So the story is bullshit then. :coffee:
They've been around since 1956. :coffee:
:lol: :check:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:So kalm, will you democritize your business and stop being a greedy and oppressive 1 percenter?
Yep.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Chizzang
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19274
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 am
I am a fan of: Deflate Gate
A.K.A.: The Quasar Kid
Location: Palermo Italy

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Chizzang »

Our answer to Mondragon Corp is Wal-Mart...
The largest company in the world

A company that pays the lowest wages in the free world
Makes the largest profit per-employee in the free world
and is the shining example of where America is headed

The race to the bottom begins with the successful implementation of the Wal-Mart ideology

Image
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Ivytalk »

Ivytalk Steinmetz will handle the IPO. :nod:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25096
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by houndawg »

CAA Flagship wrote:So let me get this straight. They let workers who are not qualified to make important business decisions, make important business decisions. Isn't that the same model that developed the power two-party system and elected Obama? It's either short-term luck or bullshit.
:? What makes a worker "qualified to make important decisions"?
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


"I really love America. I just don't know how to get there anymore."John Prine
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Ivytalk »

Chizzang wrote:Our answer to Mondragon Corp is Wal-Mart...
The largest company in the world

A company that pays the lowest wages in the free world
Makes the largest profit per-employee in the free world
and is the shining example of where America is headed

The race to the bottom begins with the successful implementation of the Wal-Mart ideology

Image
This really has nothing to do with Wal-Mart, unless you are using Wal-Mart as an exemplar of American shareowner capitalism. Mondragon is a mammoth co-op owned by its workers. US public companies are owned by their stockholders. Stockholders these days are primarily institutions and hence concentrated: pension funds, labor unions, and the like. We've come a long way from the ideal of disaggregated mom-and-pop share ownership. Most Institutional owners don't care much about things like pay ratios: they just elect directors to hire managers to build profitable enterprises to make money for those institutions. That's the way our system works and, judging from the recent highs in our markets and corporate profits in a lukewarm economy, it must be working pretty well.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

houndawg wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:So let me get this straight. They let workers who are not qualified to make important business decisions, make important business decisions. Isn't that the same model that developed the power two-party system and elected Obama? It's either short-term luck or bullshit.
:? What makes a worker "qualified to make important decisions"?
Education, Experience, and Information.

How is it that you don't know that?
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69150
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Our answer to Mondragon Corp is Wal-Mart...
The largest company in the world

A company that pays the lowest wages in the free world
Makes the largest profit per-employee in the free world
and is the shining example of where America is headed

The race to the bottom begins with the successful implementation of the Wal-Mart ideology

Image
This really has nothing to do with Wal-Mart, unless you are using Wal-Mart as an exemplar of American shareowner capitalism. Mondragon is a mammoth co-op owned by its workers. US public companies are owned by their stockholders. Stockholders these days are primarily institutions and hence concentrated: pension funds, labor unions, and the like. We've come a long way from the ideal of disaggregated mom-and-pop share ownership. Most Institutional owners don't care much about things like pay ratios: they just elect directors to hire managers to build profitable enterprises to make money for those institutions. That's the way our system works and, judging from the recent highs in our markets and corporate profits in a lukewarm economy, it must be working pretty well.
The closer one is to the process the smarter their decisions will be. Rather than…"no, no…trust us, we've got this".
Image
Image
Image
CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38529
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: This really has nothing to do with Wal-Mart, unless you are using Wal-Mart as an exemplar of American shareowner capitalism. Mondragon is a mammoth co-op owned by its workers. US public companies are owned by their stockholders. Stockholders these days are primarily institutions and hence concentrated: pension funds, labor unions, and the like. We've come a long way from the ideal of disaggregated mom-and-pop share ownership. Most Institutional owners don't care much about things like pay ratios: they just elect directors to hire managers to build profitable enterprises to make money for those institutions. That's the way our system works and, judging from the recent highs in our markets and corporate profits in a lukewarm economy, it must be working pretty well.
The closer one is to the process the smarter their decisions will be. Rather than…"no, no…trust us, we've got this".
Not following you here. Wut?
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: This really has nothing to do with Wal-Mart, unless you are using Wal-Mart as an exemplar of American shareowner capitalism. Mondragon is a mammoth co-op owned by its workers. US public companies are
owned by their stockholders. Stockholders these days are primarily institutions and hence concentrated: pension funds, labor unions, and the like. We've come a long way from the ideal of disaggregated mom-and-pop share ownership. Most Institutional owners don't care much about things like pay ratios: they just elect directors to hire managers to build profitable enterprises to make money for those institutions. That's the way our system works and, judging from the recent highs in our markets and corporate profits in a lukewarm economy, it must be working pretty well.
The closer one is to the process the smarter their decisions will be. Rather than…"no, no…trust us, we've got this".
We're far from the days of Berle and Means, kalm. More outside directors, more independent board committees in key areas like audit and governance, more diisclosure, more accountability, less entrenched
management.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by AZGrizFan »

CAA Flagship wrote:
houndawg wrote:
:? What makes a worker "qualified to make important decisions"?
Education, Experience, and Information.

How is it that you don't know that?
Because he's a union employee. He's 0-3 in those categories.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
Chizzang
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19274
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 am
I am a fan of: Deflate Gate
A.K.A.: The Quasar Kid
Location: Palermo Italy

Re: Mondragon Corporation

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Our answer to Mondragon Corp is Wal-Mart...
The largest company in the world

A company that pays the lowest wages in the free world
Makes the largest profit per-employee in the free world
and is the shining example of where America is headed

The race to the bottom begins with the successful implementation of the Wal-Mart ideology

Image
This really has nothing to do with Wal-Mart, unless you are using Wal-Mart as an exemplar of American shareowner capitalism. Mondragon is a mammoth co-op owned by its workers. US public companies are owned by their stockholders. Stockholders these days are primarily institutions and hence concentrated: pension funds, labor unions, and the like. We've come a long way from the ideal of disaggregated mom-and-pop share ownership. Most Institutional owners don't care much about things like pay ratios: they just elect directors to hire managers to build profitable enterprises to make money for those institutions. That's the way our system works and, judging from the recent highs in our markets and corporate profits in a lukewarm economy, it must be working pretty well.
I disagree...
This is precisely the issue - We're beyond arms reach from anything and everything that interacts with our economy at a large scale its all about the man behind the curtain / Wal-Mart Taco-Bell Pizza Hut and McDonalds are Americas LARGEST EMPLOYERS with Kroger (a grocery store conglomerate) Target and Home Depot not far behind...

The Costco's in America as a business example between employee and company are on the decline...

I just blathered on a few weeks ago about how both models have proven to work
1) Distance yourself from your employees
2) Pay as little as possible focus on Wall Street

or

1) Hyper focus on your employees
2) Over pay them and invest them in the process of how the business runs

:nod:

FORBES magazine has an article on this every quarter and has used McDonalds as an example several times
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
Post Reply