Agreed,SunCoastBlueHen wrote:Is praying for someone who is very sick to make a miraculous recovery really a righteous prayer? If God's plan is truly perfect, then who are we to tell him how these things should play out?
Wrong. I believe in the miraculous. I believe there is a god.JoltinJoe wrote:D1B wrote:
This would be a good start.
But you see, this is why a discussion about the miraculous goes nowhere. You see the lack of proof of miracles as proof there is no God.
Well, she missed so much and was only in her mid 60's when she died.JoltinJoe wrote:It's beyond our understanding why. However, I'm sure there ereis a reason.D1B wrote: Thousands die each year of lung cancer. I'm glad for you that god specifically chose to help you. I wish he would have helped my poor, lifelong devout catholic grandmother. I guarantee you she had at least 2750 more prayers than your wife had.
SG's wife has more to do here, and her experience will deepen her faith and empathy for others as she approaches her task.
There is no doubt in my mind that prayers for your grandmother were answered, in a way even greater than you imagine.
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:Is praying for someone who is very sick to make a miraculous recovery really a righteous prayer? If God's plan is truly perfect, then who are we to tell him how these things should play out?
I thought he was Jewish.dbackjon wrote:SunCoastBlueHen wrote:Is praying for someone who is very sick to make a miraculous recovery really a righteous prayer? If God's plan is truly perfect, then who are we to tell him how these things should play out?
Yup - all those Austrian Catholics that prayed for baby Adolph
D1B wrote:Wrong. I believe in the miraculous. I believe there is a god.JoltinJoe wrote:
But you see, this is why a discussion about the miraculous goes nowhere. You see the lack of proof of miracles as proof there is no God.
This thread is about the scarcity of angels and the dearth of great miracles coming from the Christian god.
Tell that to the reporter in Iraq.andy7171 wrote:For what its worth, my brother died when I was 7 years old, he was almost 6. His grave marker says "Almost Six". My mom tells me a story I have no recollection of. Two days after he died, I called my mom into my room saying Pete was there. She couldn't see him, but I was talking to him as if he was. He told me to tell her "Everything is ok. And that we would all see him again." I wasn't asleep. I was playing in my room.
I don't remember this at all. My my mom cries everytime she has told the story, which is about 3 times in the last 20 years.
I believe her. People who die aren't being punished.
A similar story -andy7171 wrote:For what its worth, my brother died when I was 7 years old, he was almost 6. His grave marker says "Almost Six". My mom tells me a story I have no recollection of. Two days after he died, I called my mom into my room saying Pete was there. She couldn't see him, but I was talking to him as if he was. He told me to tell her "Everything is ok. And that we would all see him again." I wasn't asleep. I was playing in my room.
I don't remember this at all. My my mom cries everytime she has told the story, which is about 3 times in the last 20 years.
I believe her. People who die aren't being punished.
andy7171 wrote:I thought he was Jewish.dbackjon wrote:
Yup - all those Austrian Catholics that prayed for baby Adolph
I hear that a lot, about kids being able see spiritual images. Many parents blow it off as imaginary friends. Good story Andy!andy7171 wrote:For what its worth, my brother died when I was 7 years old, he was almost 6. His grave marker says "Almost Six". My mom tells me a story I have no recollection of. Two days after he died, I called my mom into my room saying Pete was there. She couldn't see him, but I was talking to him as if he was. He told me to tell her "Everything is ok. And that we would all see him again." I wasn't asleep. I was playing in my room.
I don't remember this at all. My my mom cries everytime she has told the story, which is about 3 times in the last 20 years.
I believe her. People who die aren't being punished.
Both great stories.SunCoastBlueHen wrote:A similar story -andy7171 wrote:For what its worth, my brother died when I was 7 years old, he was almost 6. His grave marker says "Almost Six". My mom tells me a story I have no recollection of. Two days after he died, I called my mom into my room saying Pete was there. She couldn't see him, but I was talking to him as if he was. He told me to tell her "Everything is ok. And that we would all see him again." I wasn't asleep. I was playing in my room.
I don't remember this at all. My my mom cries everytime she has told the story, which is about 3 times in the last 20 years.
I believe her. People who die aren't being punished.
My youngest wasn't quite three yet when my father in-law passed away. Two days after he died, I had taken her to the beach to run around and play. It was just the two of us - not another person was on the beach anywhere within view. She started running with her arms open like she was going to give a hug yelling, "There's grandpa! There's grandpa!" There was no one around for her to even mistake as grandpa. I was there - in her mind, my father in-law was there - there was no question. How she came to see him , or what that means, I don't know. I do know that my wife and MIL took comfort when I related to them what had transpired.
Thanks for sharing. JoltinJoe wrote:I don't disagree with a word you said. I wouldn't call this a miracle; I'd call it an answered prayer and a blessing, perhaps.dbackjon wrote:
There is so much we don't know about the human body and the self-healing potential (as well as misdiagnosis in the first place). Those that want to see a miracle, will.
Case in point - last January, when I had my heart scare, the day before the procedure, Alex's mom insisted we drive to Tucson and go to the Mission at San Xavier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_San_Xavier_del_Bac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which is a pilgrimage site for local Catholics. We did the circuit of the church, then a nearby hill that is also a pilgrimage site. the next day, no blockage was found during the angiogram (which was one of the possibilities I was told could happen) - that I had a false reading from the earlier tests.
Some might say I experienced a miracle, others, just that I never had the blockage to begin with.
But if they found a blockage, then you went to the Mission, and then the blockage disappeared and doctors could not tell you why ...
He loves everyone. WBC are assholes of the absolute highest order.dbackjon wrote:JoltinJoe wrote:
I don't disagree with a word you said. I wouldn't call this a miracle; I'd call it an answered prayer and a blessing, perhaps.
But if they found a blockage, then you went to the Mission, and then the blockage disappeared and doctors could not tell you why ...
BTW - so God is performing miracles/blessings for Gays now - wow, glad God is evolving!!
Somebody tell Westboro Baptist!!
God isn't evolving, people are evolving. Some people say GOD is Good Orderly Direction, can't say that about the Westboro Baptist and it's ilk.dbackjon wrote: BTW - so God is performing miracles/blessings for Gays now - wow, glad God is evolving!!
Somebody tell Westboro Baptist!!
Don't you find it odd that people seemingly begin to "see" things when they're in distress? Andy after his brother died...your grandma while she's dying...ASUG8 wrote:My wife's grandmother described the following as she was living her last days in her local hospital:
* a child playing in the room that she recognized as one of her departed siblings
* her deceased husband in the room
* her brother, who had passed away just a few hours before. She asked "John, is that you? What are you doing here?" just a few hours before she died. No one had told her about his passing, and there were a half dozen people in the room.
Maybe you're right, maybe not. Who knows.∞∞∞ wrote:Don't you find it odd that people seemingly begin to "see" things when they're in distress? Andy after his brother died...your grandma while she's dying...ASUG8 wrote:My wife's grandmother described the following as she was living her last days in her local hospital:
* a child playing in the room that she recognized as one of her departed siblings
* her deceased husband in the room
* her brother, who had passed away just a few hours before. She asked "John, is that you? What are you doing here?" just a few hours before she died. No one had told her about his passing, and there were a half dozen people in the room.
Humans use their imagination (which is an extremely powerful survival tool) as a coping mechanism.
He's right, but some people need a security blanket and some people need to sell security blankets.ASUG8 wrote:Maybe you're right, maybe not. Who knows.∞∞∞ wrote: Don't you find it odd that people seemingly begin to "see" things when they're in distress? Andy after his brother died...your grandma while she's dying...
Humans use their imagination (which is an extremely powerful survival tool) as a coping mechanism.
Sorry to hear that, andy. My mother has had similar experiences before her parents both died. Her brother (who was killed in 1969) visited her the day her father died. Said the same thing. 12 years later, her mother is dying and one day she walks into the kitchen and see's her brother standing there. That night, her mother died.andy7171 wrote:For what its worth, my brother died when I was 7 years old, he was almost 6. His grave marker says "Almost Six". My mom tells me a story I have no recollection of. Two days after he died, I called my mom into my room saying Pete was there. She couldn't see him, but I was talking to him as if he was. He told me to tell her "Everything is ok. And that we would all see him again." I wasn't asleep. I was playing in my room.
I don't remember this at all. My my mom cries everytime she has told the story, which is about 3 times in the last 20 years.
I believe her. People who die aren't being punished.
If this evolves into a thread about this sort of stuff, i'd be real interested to see if anyone has had some experiences.ASUG8 wrote:My wife's grandmother described the following as she was living her last days in her local hospital:
* a child playing in the room that she recognized as one of her departed siblings
* her deceased husband in the room
* her brother, who had passed away just a few hours before. She asked "John, is that you? What are you doing here?" just a few hours before she died. No one had told her about his passing, and there were a half dozen people in the room.
There were more odd things that I can't recall off the top of my head.
There is another interesting story that happened to some friends who lost their teenage daughter several years back that I'll have to get my wife to refresh for me.
I grew up going to church, but don't go much anymore. I don't know if stories like this are real or not, but I'd like to believe so.
Like I said. I just turned seven. He was a year and two weeks younger than me. I remember him laying down in the yard. My mom running out of the house screaming. And then being at the neighbors house for a sleep over. Not sure I understood what happened. Oh he was born with a heart condition and had to be opened up after birth.∞∞∞ wrote:Don't you find it odd that people seemingly begin to "see" things when they're in distress? Andy after his brother died...your grandma while she's dying...ASUG8 wrote:My wife's grandmother described the following as she was living her last days in her local hospital:
* a child playing in the room that she recognized as one of her departed siblings
* her deceased husband in the room
* her brother, who had passed away just a few hours before. She asked "John, is that you? What are you doing here?" just a few hours before she died. No one had told her about his passing, and there were a half dozen people in the room.
Humans use their imagination (which is an extremely powerful survival tool) as a coping mechanism.
Plethora of neurological and psychological explanations for what you and others experience during duress.andy7171 wrote:Like I said. I just turned seven. He was a year and two weeks younger than me. I remember him laying down in the yard. My mom running out of the house screaming. And then being at the neighbors house for a sleep over. Not sure I understood what happened. Oh he was born with a heart condition and had to be opened up after birth.∞∞∞ wrote: Don't you find it odd that people seemingly begin to "see" things when they're in distress? Andy after his brother died...your grandma while she's dying...
Humans use their imagination (which is an extremely powerful survival tool) as a coping mechanism.
Regardless. I don't think I was really "grieving" at the time.
But I understand what you are working towards.
My aunt had a similar experience before she died. I'll see if this thread continues to share that.
SeattleGriz wrote:
He isn't here to learn, for I have told him twice that he is confusing history with theology. Simple mistake made by many who just read the Bible and don't do any study.
For some reason, Cleets seems to think that man's historical accounts are synonymous with God's divinity.
Next he will tell us about the deep dark conspiracy that the Bible holds right in front of everyone's nose. LIES...that can be researched by anyone, but yet are used to dupe everyone.
ExpandoCleets.
