Should SUU join the Big Sky?

[Mvemjsunpx]

Central Washington should move up - they would be a good fit.

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

A better plan would be to add CWU to the BSC (natural rivalry with EWU) and send either SacSt or UNC back to the Great West.

Really? CWU only averaged 3961 fans in 2008, which is less than 1-10 UNC averaged and less than half of what Sac averaged. And that was for a championship contending DII team; they'll probably drop a bit with Reilly gone.

[NorthernCOU]

Central Washington should move up - they would be a good fit.

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

A better plan would be to add CWU to the BSC (natural rivalry with EWU) and send either SacSt or UNC back to the Great West.

Or better yet Montana can move up to the NFL

Take that strengthening the big sky talk back to the egriz board.

[kemajic]

A better plan would be to add CWU to the BSC (natural rivalry with EWU) and send either SacSt or UNC back to the Great West.

Really? CWU only averaged 3961 fans in 2008, which is less than 1-10 UNC averaged and less than half of what Sac averaged. And that was for a championship contending DII team; they'll probably drop a bit with Reilly gone.

They would likely double it for D1 membership and games. They would get that many Montana fans for the Griz game and same for the EWU game. 3961 is more than we had at Ogden for the Weber game, so if that's a criteria.... It's not the only criteria that should be looked at; compare travel costs.

Besides, as previously stated, the Great West could use some help. SUU got 1700 for four time NC Youngstown St.

[Mike Johnson]

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

Has Grand Canyon announced this? They officially announced that they were adding football, originally for fall 2009 and then for fall 2010. But, I haven't heard anything since.

Central Washington has a football team that has been good, but lost most of their key players and is rebuilding this year. This coming year will be a good test as to whether they can keep up a quality team. They averaged 3961 fans per game last year in a stadium that supposedly holds 4000, but 5098 is the attendance against Western Washington. Central Washington's athletic budget is about 1/3 that of Eastern Washington.

[dbackjon]

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

Has Grand Canyon announced this? They officially announced that they were adding football, originally for fall 2009 and then for fall 2010. But, I haven't heard anything since.

.

If you check the Grand Canyon to D-1 thread, I recount a conversation I had with the Athletic Director there. It was straight from his mouth.

[Mike Johnson]

They would likely double it for D1 membership and games. They would get that many Montana fans for the Griz game and same for the EWU game. 3961 is more than we had at Ogden for the Weber game, so if that's a criteria.... It's not the only criteria that should be looked at; compare travel costs.

Weber State's attendance in 2008:

vs. Montana-Western: 5182
vs. Dixie State: 8201
vs. Montana: 3753
vs. Northern Colorado: 7320
vs. Portland State: 8164
vs. Eastern Washington: 8841

Average: 6910

Of course, we were talking about the average at CWU and not the game with by far the lowest attendance. Also, officially the CWU stadium only holds 4000 (although they stuffed 5000 in it for the Western Washington game). There isn't much room for CWU to grow its attendance without expanding the stadium.

[GeauxSioux]

So attendance is the key for admission into the Big Sky?

North Dakota averaged 10,167 in home attendance last year, the first year in FCS. That would put North Dakota in third place in attendance behind the two Montana schools.

I know, I know, it's that geography thing,

[Mike Johnson]

I mentioned more than attendance. CWU's stadium is very small. Several on this board said that SUU, with their 8500-seat stadium wasn't good enough for the Big Sky, but CWU has a 4000-seat stadium.

I also mentioned the size of the athletics budget as reported by the institution to the US Department of Education and published on the Equity in Athletics webpage. CWU has a $2.5 million athletics budget (smaller than Dixie State's). SUU has a $6.7 million athletics budget that wasn't supposed to be good enough for the Big Sky.

CWU is presented as being inside the Big Sky footprint. I find it interesting that the average distance from either CWU or SUU to all nine of the Big Sky schools is 641 miles. Time wise, the average is 6:30 for SUU and 6:50 for CWU. These averages were developed using Google Maps. 5 of the Big Sky schools are closer to CWU in distance and 5 are closer to SUU in time (CSU-Sacramento being closer in distance to CWU (690 vs. 730 miles) and closer in time to SUU (10:59 vs. 12:15)). Overall, I would say both fit equally well in the Big Sky footprint.

This thread was about whether SUU would eventually join the Big Sky and it has become an endorsement by some for CWU to join the Big Sky. Granted CWU has played well at the Division II level the past couple of years, but they lost a lot of key players this past year. SUU hasn't had the same success, but they have played close against a large number of ranked teams in FCS the past couple of years. The argument that CWU would serve as a travel partner for EWU both displaces Portland State and is countered by SUU serving as a travel partner for either Weber State or Northern Arizona. At the moment, I don't see CWU having an advantage over SUU in getting into the Big Sky. I suspect, the Big Sky sees little advantage in offering either a position in the conference. If CWU does move up to Division I, I think SUU and CWU would end up competing in the Great West, which would take CWU in a heartbeat and would be great news for the Great West in all sports, including football.

[dbackjon]

Those that advocated CWU are really wanting a northern based Big Sky - Washington, Montana, Idaho, Northern Utah - centered around Missoula, because we all know that the Big Sky revolves around Montana, and that Football and Basketball are the only sports that matter, and screw the other 11 required sports, which Montana generally sucks at, because they are not worth considering.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Those that advocated CWU are really wanting a northern based Big Sky - Washington, Montana, Idaho, Northern Utah - centered around Missoula, because we all know that the Big Sky revolves around Montana, and that Football and Basketball are the only sports that matter, and screw the other 11 required sports, which Montana generally sucks at, because they are not worth considering.

OK it looks like your starting to get a handle on the concepts now dback. Is it possible the others in the conference tout the lesser sports because they don't have the stranglehold on Football and basketball that the Griz have? We don't have a stranglehold on Men's BB but I'm just sayin'...

FWIW, I love having NAU in the Big Sky.

[dbackjon]

Those that advocated CWU are really wanting a northern based Big Sky - Washington, Montana, Idaho, Northern Utah - centered around Missoula, because we all know that the Big Sky revolves around Montana, and that Football and Basketball are the only sports that matter, and screw the other 11 required sports, which Montana generally sucks at, because they are not worth considering.

OK it looks like your starting to get a handle on the concepts now dback. Is it possible the others in the conference tout the lesser sports because they don't have the stranglehold on Football and basketball that the Griz have? We don't have a stranglehold on Men's BB but I'm just sayin'...

FWIW, I love having NAU in the Big Sky.

And love being in the Big Sky

NAU has a solid football and basketball program - can be counted on to be competitive most every year. I wish our football team could repeat 2003 more often - winning a playoff game, Confernce co-champs (should have been champs other than screw up in Bozeman).

So really, The Griz have Football, and one minor sport, while other schools have great progams in multiple minor sports

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

OK it looks like your starting to get a handle on the concepts now dback. Is it possible the others in the conference tout the lesser sports because they don't have the stranglehold on Football and basketball that the Griz have? We don't have a stranglehold on Men's BB but I'm just sayin'...

FWIW, I love having NAU in the Big Sky.

And love being in the Big Sky

NAU has a solid football and basketball program - can be counted on to be competitive most every year. I wish our football team could repeat 2003 more often - winning a playoff game, Confernce co-champs (should have been champs other than screw up in Bozeman).

So really, The Griz have Football, and one minor sport, while other schools have great progams in multiple minor sports

Sure, of course, why didn't I see what you were saying in the first place? Your team is tremendously mediocre in the big sports and tremendous in the mediocre sports...

Just hackin' on ya dback. I don't mean any of that.

[dbackjon]

Mediocre is Idaho State at anything

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Mediocre is Idaho State at anything

You've obviously taken a head shot recently. ISU would love to achieve mediocrity. I'm pretty sure it's printed on the team goals sheet for each sport before they even add their own. It's part of the letterhead.

[dbackjon]

Mediocre is Idaho State at anything

You've obviously taken a head shot recently. ISU would love to achieve mediocrity. I'm pretty sure it's printed on the team goals sheet for each sport before they even add their own. It's part of the letterhead.

Very true - but ISU did finish 4th in Men's BB this year, Women's CC was 4th (ahead of UM). Men's Indoor Track was 2nd (UM 7th), while Women's Indoor Track was 5th (UM 8th) (All won by NAU).

Just looking at Conference titles this year in the 14 Big Sky Sports - Titles won (Outdoor Track TBD):

NAU - 6
Portland State - 2
Sac State - 2
Montana - 1.5
Weber State - .5

NAU is favored to win the Outdoor Track Titles for both Men and Women, which would give them more than have of all Big Sky titles this year. In addition, the best finish by any Big Sky team in a sport was NAU Men's X-country team, which finished 6th nationally this year.

[GOKATS]

I don't see either SUU or CWU in the Big Sky in the near future, but if one were up for grabs I'd take SUU in a heartbeat, they're at the FCS level and always present a challenge to BSC teams. Had CWU beat the griz in fizzoula last year they would be my pick though........................

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

You've obviously taken a head shot recently. ISU would love to achieve mediocrity. I'm pretty sure it's printed on the team goals sheet for each sport before they even add their own. It's part of the letterhead.

Very true - but ISU did finish 4th in Men's BB this year, Women's CC was 4th (ahead of UM). Men's Indoor Track was 2nd (UM 7th), while Women's Indoor Track was 5th (UM 8th) (All won by NAU).

Just looking at Conference titles this year in the 14 Big Sky Sports - Titles won (Outdoor Track TBD):

NAU - 6
Portland State - 2
Sac State - 2
Montana - 1.5
Weber State - .5

NAU is favored to win the Outdoor Track Titles for both Men and Women, which would give them more than have of all Big Sky titles this year. In addition, the best finish by any Big Sky team in a sport was NAU Men's X-country team, which finished 6th nationally this year.

How'd we do in the power walking? It's just as much a sport as the other really fast walking sports are. That is freakin' hilarious dback. I don't normally nominate a "Post of the year" but in this case I'm going to make an exception. Please put that one in the hopper for me.

[dbackjon]

Very true - but ISU did finish 4th in Men's BB this year, Women's CC was 4th (ahead of UM). Men's Indoor Track was 2nd (UM 7th), while Women's Indoor Track was 5th (UM 8th) (All won by NAU).

Just looking at Conference titles this year in the 14 Big Sky Sports - Titles won (Outdoor Track TBD):

NAU - 6
Portland State - 2
Sac State - 2
Montana - 1.5
Weber State - .5

NAU is favored to win the Outdoor Track Titles for both Men and Women, which would give them more than have of all Big Sky titles this year. In addition, the best finish by any Big Sky team in a sport was NAU Men's X-country team, which finished 6th nationally this year.

How'd we do in the power walking? It's just as much a sport as the other really fast walking sports are. That is freakin' hilarious dback. I don't normally nominate a "Post of the year" but in this case I'm going to make an exception. Please put that one in the hopper for me.

Chuckle it up, Open Container Boy...

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

How'd we do in the power walking? It's just as much a sport as the other really fast walking sports are. That is freakin' hilarious dback. I don't normally nominate a "Post of the year" but in this case I'm going to make an exception. Please put that one in the hopper for me.

Chuckle it up, Open Container Boy...

Geez man, no need to get personal like that.

[kemajic]

I don't see either SUU or CWU in the Big Sky in the near future, but if one were up for grabs I'd take SUU in a heartbeat, they're at the FCS level and always present a challenge to BSC teams. Had CWU beat the griz in fizzoula last year they would be my pick though........................

SUU presents quite a challenge all right. They have won a total of four FCS games in the last four years, about the same as UNC. Both should be DII; they might be able to compete with Chadron and CWU, maybe.

[AZGrizFan]

In addition, the best finish by any Big Sky team in a sport was NAU Men's X-country team, which finished 6th nationally this year.

Cross Country
Indoor Track
Outdoor Track
Underwater Track
Basketweaving Track

How many friggin' different kinds of "track" are there? WAFJ.

And, FYI, The Griz finished SECOND nationally this year in football....lest ye forget.

[dbackjon]

In addition, the best finish by any Big Sky team in a sport was NAU Men's X-country team, which finished 6th nationally this year.

And, FYI, The Griz finished SECOND nationally this year in football....lest ye forget.

Nationally excluding about 50 or so teams that would beat either Richmond or UM...

[AZGrizFan]

And, FYI, The Griz finished SECOND nationally this year in football....lest ye forget.

Nationally excluding about 50 or so teams that would beat either Richmond or UM...

And you know damned good and well that if NAU had finished runnerup in FCS you'd be chirping about THAT and not a 6th place finish in Mens underwater basketweaving.

[BlackFalkin]

And you know damned good and well that if NAU had finished runnerup in FCS you'd be chirping about THAT and not a 6th place finish in Mens underwater basketweaving.

^Thats some funny shtt man! Classic.

[SUUTbird]

I don't see either SUU or CWU in the Big Sky in the near future, but if one were up for grabs I'd take SUU in a heartbeat, they're at the FCS level and always present a challenge to BSC teams. Had CWU beat the griz in fizzoula last year they would be my pick though........................

SUU presents quite a challenge all right. They have won a total of four FCS games in the last four years, about the same as UNC. Both should be DII; they might be able to compete with Chadron and CWU, maybe.

Well i cant deny that we have stuggled in the past but we are moving in the right direction and i can see us winning many more games in the near future in the FCS. And D2? Please outside of football im pretty sure we could even beat a few of your sports team, for example out basketball team. Football yes we have been lacking but we are getting better. Hope to see you guys in the near future