F-35 JSF cleared for take off

[Ibanez]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/us/f-35-f ... ?hpt=hp_t2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Pentagon's most expensive weapons program ever, the F-35 warplane, is cleared for takeoff again.
The limited flight clearance, approved by Navy and Air Force officials Monday, allows the aircraft to fly with an engine inspection regimen and restricted flight envelope following the fleet's grounding after an engine fire last month.
Defense Department spokesman Mark Wright said in a statement the restrictions would "remain in effect until the root cause of the June 23 engine mishap is identified and corrected."

A $400 billion project. Damn.

[dbackjon]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/us/f-35-f ... ?hpt=hp_t2

The Pentagon's most expensive weapons program ever, the F-35 warplane, is cleared for takeoff again.
The limited flight clearance, approved by Navy and Air Force officials Monday, allows the aircraft to fly with an engine inspection regimen and restricted flight envelope following the fleet's grounding after an engine fire last month.
Defense Department spokesman Mark Wright said in a statement the restrictions would "remain in effect until the root cause of the June 23 engine mishap is identified and corrected."

A $400 billion project. Damn.

Try 1 trillion...

[Ibanez]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/us/f-35-f ... ?hpt=hp_t2



A $400 billion project. Damn.

Try 1 trillion...

That's the projected, total life cycle cost.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/ ... 2E20130315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most recent U.S. Defense Department estimates put the current cost of developing, testing and building the F-35 multi-role fighter jet at $396 billion, a forecast that assumes U.S. purchases of 2,443 production jets, on top of 14 test planes.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 ... ke-fighter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

COST OF THE OVERALL PROGRAM

* A new U.S. Defense Department estimate put the cost of developing, testing and building the F-35 multi-role fighter jet at $391.2 billion, down from last year's estimate of $395.7 billion. The forecast assumes U.S. purchases of 2,443 production jets, on top of 14 test planes.

* Retrofits of existing planes to address problems found in flight testing are expected to total $1.7 billion over the first 10 production batches, according to the most recent report by the congressional Government Accountability Office (GAO).

* The cost of operating and sustaining the new planes is estimated to reach $1.1 trillion, assuming that they will be used for 50 years, according to the most recent Pentagon data, although those estimates are likely to be updated this fall.

[Ibanez]

The cost to develop and build the Joint Strike Fighter fleet rose 1.88 percent over the past year because of delays in the production line and failures of the engine producer to bring down costs, said Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, F-35 Program Executive Officer.

The cost of the program rose by $7.4 billion to $398.58 billion in 2012-year dollars, according to the Pentagon’s Selected Acquisition Report that is released each year to Congress. The increase in costs means tax payers will end up paying $162 million for each fifth generation fighter jet by the end of the program at the current rate.

The F-35 program’s top officer explained that the cumulative effect of these delays increased the price per individual airplane. However, the Pentagon found that total JSF program costs including acquisition, operations and support for the F-35 dropped $15 billion to $921 billion in 2012-year dollars.

The U.S. plans to acquire 2,457 F-35 planes to include operational and test aircraft, Joint Program Office officials said.

Even though the Pentagon will spend $162 million per aircraft based on current estimates, it doesn’t cost that much today to roll an F-35 off the production line, Bogdan said. Instead, it costs $112 million and he’s hoping to lower the price per jet to a range of $80–84 million by 2019 when full rate production increases to larger numbers of aircraft.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/17/f-35- ... 7-billion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dbackjon]

Try 1 trillion...

That's the projected, total life cycle cost.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/ ... 2E20130315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most recent U.S. Defense Department estimates put the current cost of developing, testing and building the F-35 multi-role fighter jet at $396 billion, a forecast that assumes U.S. purchases of 2,443 production jets, on top of 14 test planes.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 ... ke-fighter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

COST OF THE OVERALL PROGRAM

* A new U.S. Defense Department estimate put the cost of developing, testing and building the F-35 multi-role fighter jet at $391.2 billion, down from last year's estimate of $395.7 billion. The forecast assumes U.S. purchases of 2,443 production jets, on top of 14 test planes.

* Retrofits of existing planes to address problems found in flight testing are expected to total $1.7 billion over the first 10 production batches, according to the most recent report by the congressional Government Accountability Office (GAO).

* The cost of operating and sustaining the new planes is estimated to reach $1.1 trillion, assuming that they will be used for 50 years, according to the most recent Pentagon data, although those estimates are likely to be updated this fall.

Sorry - 1.1 Trillion.

[Ibanez]

That's the projected, total life cycle cost.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/ ... 2E20130315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 ... ke-fighter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry - 1.1 Trillion.

That $1.1T figure is from last year. Data from April shows the costs are decreasing. And that is supposed to happen. As you go forward in a project, your risks and problems (should) become less and less, your development gets quicker and cheaper by design, humans becoming better and integration, etc... and the program costs end up being less than what they are projected to be. It's still a huge figure, no doubt about it.

[93henfan]

That's the projected, total life cycle cost.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/ ... 2E20130315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 ... ke-fighter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry - 1.1 Trillion.

But don't you feel safer?

And just think, we'll be sharing this platform with our allies (and via espionage) with the Chinese. So everyone wins!

Oh wait, you're a US taxpayer, aren't you? My bad.

[dbackjon]

Sorry - 1.1 Trillion.

But don't you feel safer?

And just think, we'll be sharing this platform with our allies (and via espionage) with the Chinese. So everyone wins!

Oh wait, you're a US taxpayer, aren't you? My bad.

Yes, so much safer. Although maybe this is a clever idea to get the Chinese to use technology that will render their Air Force useless...

Meanwhile, the US still has the old working planes in the various National Guards

[DSUrocks07]

But don't you feel safer?

And just think, we'll be sharing this platform with our allies (and via espionage) with the Chinese. So everyone wins!

Oh wait, you're a US taxpayer, aren't you? My bad.

Yes, so much safer. Although maybe this is a clever idea to get the Chinese to use technology that will render their Air Force useless...

Meanwhile, the US still has the old working planes in the various National Guards

Playing the long con, I like it.

[SDHornet]

Yes, so much safer. Although maybe this is a clever idea to get the Chinese to use technology that will render their Air Force useless...

Meanwhile, the US still has the old working planes in the various National Guards

Playing the long con, I like it.

[Ivytalk]

With all those sunk costs, I guess the Guvmint has to see the project through.

[houndawg]

Now we gotta find somebody to use them on.

Preferably somebody that can't take out a $50,000,000 aircraft for pennies with a shoulder-fired missile.

[93henfan]

Now we gotta find somebody to use them on.

Preferably somebody that can't take out a $50,000,000 aircraft for pennies with a shoulder-fired missile.

But it's stealth!

[AZGrizFan]

Yes, so much safer. Although maybe this is a clever idea to get the Chinese to use technology that will render their Air Force useless...

Meanwhile, the US still has the old working planes in the various National Guards

Playing the long con, I like it.

That is one EXPENSIVE set up....

[AZGrizFan]

Now we gotta find somebody to use them on.

Preferably somebody that can't take out a $50,000,000 aircraft for pennies with a shoulder-fired missile.

Why worry, by that time that $50,000,000 aircraft will have taken out literally HUNDREDS of dollars worth of mud huts somewhere...

[Ibanez]

Now we gotta find somebody to use them on.

Preferably somebody that can't take out a $50,000,000 aircraft for pennies with a shoulder-fired missile.

Why worry, by that time that $50,000,000 aircraft will have taken out literally HUNDREDS of dollars worth of mud huts somewhere...

Dude, I think we can hit a few stone buildings as well.

[ASUG8]

Kind of a long read in the article, but the highlighted bit makes me wonder why we're still putting pilots in the seat.

The F-22 has a performance that is far superior to that of any other aircraft in service, which is why several foreign air forces would like some. The combination of speed, advanced electronics, and stealth technology has created such a decisive advantage that F-22s are often matched up against as many as six F-15s to ensure their pilots face a challenge during training. So why is the F-35, with somewhat lower performance, getting all the export orders?

The first reason is price. The F-22 costs up to $200 million each (without even counting the huge R&D costs). The F-35 costs up to half as much (although that edge is eroding). This is one reason the U.S. is pushing exports of the F-35. This is why many more F-16s were exported, compared to the F-15. In any event, the F-35 will outclass a Rafale, F-15E, or Eurofighter, but not the F-22. The U.S. Air Force intended the F-22 to be part of a high-end/low-end mix with the F-35, much like the F-15 and F-16 were the combination in the 1990s, only the F-22/F-35 combination will be much harder to detect and defend against.

The U.S. Air Force saw export sales as a way to keep the F-22 production line active, giving it more time to persuade Congress to allow more to be built for the U.S. That did not work. Despite the high cost of the F-22, Russia is developing the similar T-50, and China the similar J-20. But neither of these aircraft is as capable, or as expensive, as the F-22. Neither of these aircraft is in service. The F-22 began development in the late 1980s, first flew in 1997, and entered service in 2005. The F-22 is expected to remain in service for at least 30 years. And for much of that time the F-22 will be the best, if also the least numerous, jet fighter on the planet. During that time many American fighter pilots believe the stealth advantage will be lost due to new technology. China, Russia, and the Europeans will continue developing new combat aircraft designs and the appearance of unmanned fighters would change the situation most dramatically of all.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/article ... 0-2013.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mrklean]

I've been saying this shyt for thre years now. We could have upgraded the F- 15, F- 16 and F-18 for half of what the cluster fvck has cost. But hey< its only tax payer money and we have Obamacare....lol

[CID1990]

I've been saying this shyt for thre years now. We could have upgraded the F- 15, F- 16 and F-18 for half of what the cluster fvck has cost. But hey< its only tax payer money and we have Obamacare....lol

Yes, we can upgrade those platforms for a fraction fo the cost.

But no amount of upgrading can make them into 4th gen aircraft. The Russians and the Chinese, for better or for worse, are throwing their weight around at others' expense... and although it is not likely that we will come to an existential confrontation in our lifetimes, we do need to be able to establish air superiority over them when we need it.

No amount of upgrading 40 year old platforms will do that.

The F-35 is a problem, yes. There are other options- one would be to restart the F-22 program, as expensive as it is.

[Ibanez]

I've been saying this shyt for thre years now. We could have upgraded the F- 15, F- 16 and F-18 for half of what the cluster fvck has cost. But hey< its only tax payer money and we have Obamacare....lol

Putting new parts on a Model T won't make it competitive. Same goes for planes, trains and automobiles.

[CID1990]

Kind of a long read in the article, but the highlighted bit makes me wonder why we're still putting pilots in the seat.

The F-22 has a performance that is far superior to that of any other aircraft in service, which is why several foreign air forces would like some. The combination of speed, advanced electronics, and stealth technology has created such a decisive advantage that F-22s are often matched up against as many as six F-15s to ensure their pilots face a challenge during training. So why is the F-35, with somewhat lower performance, getting all the export orders?

The first reason is price. The F-22 costs up to $200 million each (without even counting the huge R&D costs). The F-35 costs up to half as much (although that edge is eroding). This is one reason the U.S. is pushing exports of the F-35. This is why many more F-16s were exported, compared to the F-15. In any event, the F-35 will outclass a Rafale, F-15E, or Eurofighter, but not the F-22. The U.S. Air Force intended the F-22 to be part of a high-end/low-end mix with the F-35, much like the F-15 and F-16 were the combination in the 1990s, only the F-22/F-35 combination will be much harder to detect and defend against.

The U.S. Air Force saw export sales as a way to keep the F-22 production line active, giving it more time to persuade Congress to allow more to be built for the U.S. That did not work. Despite the high cost of the F-22, Russia is developing the similar T-50, and China the similar J-20. But neither of these aircraft is as capable, or as expensive, as the F-22. Neither of these aircraft is in service. The F-22 began development in the late 1980s, first flew in 1997, and entered service in 2005. The F-22 is expected to remain in service for at least 30 years. And for much of that time the F-22 will be the best, if also the least numerous, jet fighter on the planet. During that time many American fighter pilots believe the stealth advantage will be lost due to new technology. China, Russia, and the Europeans will continue developing new combat aircraft designs and the appearance of unmanned fighters would change the situation most dramatically of all.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/article ... 0-2013.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a bad habit of a lot of defense journalists and even the military think tanks/strategists.

It is reminiscent of the "flying cars" everyone was supposed to have in their garage by 2010.

Drone tech has come a LONG way in the last several years, but their situational awareness is horrible still. It will be many years before anyone will be able to develop one with sensors good enough to give the ground controller the same sensitivity as a pilotin the cockpit. There is big difference between flying in a straight line shooting missiles at the ground, and actual ACM.

[Chizzang]

With all those sunk costs, I guess the Guvmint has to see the project through.

NOPE..!!!
Sunk Costs Fallacy
(and you can't have her she's already mine)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpnxd31y0Fo[/youtube]