Elizabeth Warren's student loan bill stalls

[Chizzang]

We covered this already... Your opinion is tainted
YOU: as a The Citadel grad / former Military / former Police officer / present Gov't employee

That's four strikes you're out right there Mr.
The Gov't has paid your salary for far too long (you're tainted goods)


Hugs?

You are making a goofy habit of missing the point lately, Chitz

gender studies professors are not federal employees- but the existence of these highly specialized and focused college departments IS a result of government largesse in education finance

you might as well be saying I cannot criticize our wars because I was in the military or our laws because I was a cop

No you're missing my point... it's simpler than that
You are simply ruined / broken / defective



All other points not valid...
Having been on the dole for what has to be 35 years now - you are void - period



try to play along here

[CID1990]

You are making a goofy habit of missing the point lately, Chitz

gender studies professors are not federal employees- but the existence of these highly specialized and focused college departments IS a result of government largesse in education finance

you might as well be saying I cannot criticize our wars because I was in the military or our laws because I was a cop

No you're missing my point... it's simpler than that
You are simply ruined / broken / defective



All other points not valid...
Having been on the dole for what has to be 35 years now - you are void - period



try to play along here

no, I get what you are doing

but I think you must be confusing me with someone who has said that government should not have a role in things

[kalm]

"In a round about way" is not direct legislation requiring either a tax hike or printing more money.


Why are you and others like SK content to ask what Republicans would have against this bill, rather than asking what this bill would do to fix the problem?

I agree with this sentiment. The problem with student loans isn't the interest that's charged on them (and 89 is right, comparing student loans to a home mortgage is silly, is the student going to give his degree back if he defaults and have it sold at a sherriff's sale?), the problem is that the loans need to be so big to begin with. Colleges are just packing away the money because they know that loans are so easy to get and so bountiful. All we do when we, with good intentions of course, try to make college more affordable by giving more money to students, is to simply transfer money directly to colleges who take pretty much all that extra money by raising tuitions. Because they can raise the tuitions to any amount and still have people pay them because people feel, rightfully so in many cases, that they have to have a college degree, that's why we have the problem we do today with student loans and debt. Trying to pass a bill to allow refinancing of the loans is just lipstick on a pig (I've honestly have never used that phrasing until just now - next thing you know I'll be saying that dog just don't hunt or something like that!).

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

[CitadelGrad]

I agree with this sentiment. The problem with student loans isn't the interest that's charged on them (and 89 is right, comparing student loans to a home mortgage is silly, is the student going to give his degree back if he defaults and have it sold at a sherriff's sale?), the problem is that the loans need to be so big to begin with. Colleges are just packing away the money because they know that loans are so easy to get and so bountiful. All we do when we, with good intentions of course, try to make college more affordable by giving more money to students, is to simply transfer money directly to colleges who take pretty much all that extra money by raising tuitions. Because they can raise the tuitions to any amount and still have people pay them because people feel, rightfully so in many cases, that they have to have a college degree, that's why we have the problem we do today with student loans and debt. Trying to pass a bill to allow refinancing of the loans is just lipstick on a pig (I've honestly have never used that phrasing until just now - next thing you know I'll be saying that dog just don't hunt or something like that!).

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

Stimulus? Really?

[Col Hogan]

I agree with this sentiment. The problem with student loans isn't the interest that's charged on them (and 89 is right, comparing student loans to a home mortgage is silly, is the student going to give his degree back if he defaults and have it sold at a sherriff's sale?), the problem is that the loans need to be so big to begin with. Colleges are just packing away the money because they know that loans are so easy to get and so bountiful. All we do when we, with good intentions of course, try to make college more affordable by giving more money to students, is to simply transfer money directly to colleges who take pretty much all that extra money by raising tuitions. Because they can raise the tuitions to any amount and still have people pay them because people feel, rightfully so in many cases, that they have to have a college degree, that's why we have the problem we do today with student loans and debt. Trying to pass a bill to allow refinancing of the loans is just lipstick on a pig (I've honestly have never used that phrasing until just now - next thing you know I'll be saying that dog just don't hunt or something like that!).

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

It might...it might not...but what the hell, with no evidence that it might help, let's just forget they asked for the loans, and forgive that nasty old debt...

Hey, I paid back all my student loans...and I was stone broke (can I use that, did Hildabeast TM it?)...can I get a refund on some of my interest...

and I'm still paying on my daughter's loans...can I get some of that sweet debt relief...

and my grandsons will be in college before you now it...can they get some too???

[travelinman67]

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

It might...it might not...but what the hell, with no evidence that it might help, let's just forget they asked for the loans, and forgive that nasty old debt...

Hey, I paid back all my student loans...and I was stone broke (can I use that, did Hildabeast TM it?)...can I get a refund on some of my interest...

and I'm still paying on my daughter's loans...can I get some of that sweet debt relief...

and my grandsons will be in college before you now it...can they get some too???

The interest rates are absurd. Last time I shopped rates, all origins were within half-point...

...in effect, defacto price fixing. The lenders are predatory, under a govt. protection.

Unless there is an accompanying oversight, ie., preventing schools with 1B+ endowment charging 25k/semester, lenders should statutorily operate under prime plus limits.

[kalm]

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

It might...it might not...but what the hell, with no evidence that it might help, let's just forget they asked for the loans, and forgive that nasty old debt...

Hey, I paid back all my student loans...and I was stone broke (can I use that, did Hildabeast TM it?)...can I get a refund on some of my interest...

and I'm still paying on my daughter's loans...can I get some of that sweet debt relief...

and my grandsons will be in college before you now it...can they get some too???

I said relief, not forgiveness.

But hey, let's have you continue paying more than you should into a rigged system. After all, GM and JP Morgan are far more deserving of their bailouts. At least that's what their lobbyists say...

[kalm]

I agree with this, but we should be tackling both issues. A little debt relief on $1.7 trillion worth of student loans might help a few folks out and actually provide a little stimulus.

Stimulus? Really?

I didn't say it was massive but extra money in the hands of the real economy is a positive.

[CitadelGrad]

Stimulus? Really?

I didn't say it was massive but extra money in the hands of the real economy is a positive.

Are you sure about that? Can you calculate the velocity and multiplier of that extra money?

What you are talking about is essentially a transfer payment. Transfer payments typically have no stimulative effect.

[kalm]

I didn't say it was massive but extra money in the hands of the real economy is a positive.

Are you sure about that? Can you calculate the velocity and multiplier of that extra money?

What you are talking about is essentially a transfer payment. Transfer payments typically have no stimulative effect.

So you'd rather that money be in the hands of the government or private lenders than consumers?

[Col Hogan]

It might...it might not...but what the hell, with no evidence that it might help, let's just forget they asked for the loans, and forgive that nasty old debt...

Hey, I paid back all my student loans...and I was stone broke (can I use that, did Hildabeast TM it?)...can I get a refund on some of my interest...

and I'm still paying on my daughter's loans...can I get some of that sweet debt relief...

and my grandsons will be in college before you now it...can they get some too???

I said relief, not forgiveness.

But hey, let's have you continue paying more than you should into a rigged system. After all, GM and JP Morgan are far more deserving of their bailouts. At least that's what their lobbyists say...

You missed the point completely...

Why these loans??? Why these people, and not those in the past???

And if you are not going to fix the system, how do you explain going forward why those people are not deserving of the same treatment???

And, please, don't say "it's a good first step..." Because it isn't...it's just a wealth transfer as already said above...

And who says it's a rigged system...the student wants money...they ask for it, and qualify for it...they know the interest...no one puts a gun to their head to take it...they get the money...they purchase their higher education...they now repay what they promised to repay...what is rigged???

[Ibanez]

I said relief, not forgiveness.

But hey, let's have you continue paying more than you should into a rigged system. After all, GM and JP Morgan are far more deserving of their bailouts. At least that's what their lobbyists say...

You missed the point completely...

Why these loans??? Why these people, and not those in the past???

And if you are not going to fix the system, how do you explain going forward why those people are not deserving of the same treatment???

And, please, don't say "it's a good first step..." Because it isn't...it's just a wealth transfer as already said above...

And who says it's a rigged system...the student wants money...they ask for it, and qualify for it...they know the interest...no one puts a gun to their head to take it...they get the money...they purchase their higher education...they now repay what they promised to repay...what is rigged???

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? What if we produced a generation of highly educated/skilled men and women that weren't burdened with debt? Oh the horror! Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

[kalm]

You missed the point completely...

Why these loans??? Why these people, and not those in the past???

And if you are not going to fix the system, how do you explain going forward why those people are not deserving of the same treatment???

And, please, don't say "it's a good first step..." Because it isn't...it's just a wealth transfer as already said above...

And who says it's a rigged system...the student wants money...they ask for it, and qualify for it...they know the interest...no one puts a gun to their head to take it...they get the money...they purchase their higher education...they now repay what they promised to repay...what is rigged???

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

Kalmunist!

This is where I agree somewhat with you, Ganny, and CID regarding out of control costs. The loans themselves may not be rigged, but the system as a whole is. So I'll retract my earlier statement that the two are different issues.

This would be a wealth transfer alright...from government and private lenders back into the hands of consumers.

[Ibanez]

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

Kalmunist!

This is where I agree somewhat with you, Ganny, and CID regarding out of control costs. The loans themselves may not be rigged, but the system as a whole is. So I'll retract my earlier statement that the two are different issues.

This would be a wealth transfer alright...from government and private lenders back into the hands of consumers.

Of course it's rigged. The US Gov't is involved. It's like a 401(k) for them. They give on average $60-$100K for a graduate degree. Charge 4-6% interest, over 30 years, etc... It's a great deal...for them.

[Ibanez]

Btw, I also support conscription, like Israel. (btw, only about 50% of conscripts actually serve.) I was speaking with an Israeli last week. He's recently finished his conscription and at 22 he's graduated from college, been a drone pilot and is embarking on what so far is a career in robotics.

[kalm]

Kalmunist!

This is where I agree somewhat with you, Ganny, and CID regarding out of control costs. The loans themselves may not be rigged, but the system as a whole is. So I'll retract my earlier statement that the two are different issues.

This would be a wealth transfer alright...from government and private lenders back into the hands of consumers.

Of course it's rigged. The US Gov't is involved. It's like a 401(k) for them. They give on average $60-$100K for a graduate degree. Charge 4-6% interest, over 30 years, etc... It's a great deal...for them.

That's why it's fun to watch certain board conks defend it.

One of Romney's larger donors headed up a for profit school. I wonder if they'd like to see higher tuition costs?

[kalm]

Btw, I also support conscription, like Israel. (btw, only about 50% of conscripts actually serve.) I was speaking with an Israeli last week. He's recently finished his conscription and at 22 he's graduated from college, been a drone pilot and is embarking on what so far is a career in robotics.

Totally agree with this.

[Baldy]

Of course it's rigged. The US Gov't is involved. It's like a 401(k) for them. They give on average $60-$100K for a graduate degree. Charge 4-6% interest, over 30 years, etc... It's a great deal...for them.

That's why it's fun to watch certain board conks defend it.

One of Romney's larger donors headed up a for profit school. I wonder if they'd like to see higher tuition costs?

One of Obama's larger donors owns one of the largest for profit network of schools out there...yet no mention from you...again.

[kalm]

That's why it's fun to watch certain board conks defend it.

One of Romney's larger donors headed up a for profit school. I wonder if they'd like to see higher tuition costs?

One of Obama's larger donors owns one of the largest for profit network of schools out there...yet no mention from you...again.

I honestly didn't know that. It hasnt been very well publicised. blame Common Dreams...

[Col Hogan]

You missed the point completely...

Why these loans??? Why these people, and not those in the past???

And if you are not going to fix the system, how do you explain going forward why those people are not deserving of the same treatment???

And, please, don't say "it's a good first step..." Because it isn't...it's just a wealth transfer as already said above...

And who says it's a rigged system...the student wants money...they ask for it, and qualify for it...they know the interest...no one puts a gun to their head to take it...they get the money...they purchase their higher education...they now repay what they promised to repay...what is rigged???

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? What if we produced a generation of highly educated/skilled men and women that weren't burdened with debt? Oh the horror! Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

You can't be a little pregnant...and you can't be a little socialist...

Here me out..

First, no, society would not benefit by sending everyone to college...we need highly trained people in skills that don't require college degrees...

But for a moment, I'll grant you that dream...does not the government now have the power to tell people what degree they will get? I don't want to tax fund 1000 people for pre-med and medical school only to find that 800 of them went into cosmetic surgery because that's where the biggest bucks are...and another 150 went into cardiology for the same reason...leaving the critically short General Practice area in a worse way...

Neither do I want tax dollars paying for 1000 medieval literature studies students...

So if the government is going to fund college, what kind of controls are you going to establish???

[GannonFan]

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

Kalmunist!

This is where I agree somewhat with you, Ganny, and CID regarding out of control costs. The loans themselves may not be rigged, but the system as a whole is. So I'll retract my earlier statement that the two are different issues.

This would be a wealth transfer alright...from government and private lenders back into the hands of consumers.

How would it necessarily get back to the consumers? Do you honestly believe that the only outcome of allowing and pushing refinancing on student loans would be that students would end up having more money at the end of the day? Sure, at the start they would, but past behaviors point very clearly that once everyone, especially colleges (and this is all colleges, stop with the "for profit" designation - all colleges are in on this, not just the University of Phoenix - tuition rates have risen dramatically across the board, not just at scapegoat institutions), realize that students will be able to carry more debt because they will either have, or will get after graduation, lower rates, then shockingly, tuition will go up yet again. It's a captive market, and whether you give more outright grants up front or if you manipulate loan rates lower after the fact, almost all of that money will go to Big Education. We'll have more buildings, more classrooms, more dorms with fancy ammenities, and more Starbucks littered around campuses, but what we won't have is students with lower debt, which is supposedly the whole point of this exercise.

Throwing money around and calling it stimulus doesn't actually make it stimulative. In this case, it surely wouldn't be as it hasn't been for a good 10-15 years now. At some point we have to realize that throwing money at this problem (making college less expensive) is not working.

[kalm]

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? What if we produced a generation of highly educated/skilled men and women that weren't burdened with debt? Oh the horror! Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

You can't be a little pregnant...and you can't be a little socialist.

Oh good grief.

[Ibanez]

I think it boils down to, with most other loans you are able to refinance and lower the payments. You can't with these. There is no collateral, and that's the problem. Schools jack up the prices b/c society says you MUST have these type of degrees and the gov't loans the money. It's a perfect scam. I'm not just saying this for myself, but wouldn't our society benefit by sending everyone to college, with taxpayer money? What if we produced a generation of highly educated/skilled men and women that weren't burdened with debt? Oh the horror! Since 2001 we've spent $6 Trillion on the war on Terror. What's the return for all that money spent? A stable Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. Just a thought.



I'll wait right here for all of the Socialism comments.

You can't be a little pregnant...and you can't be a little socialist...

Here me out..

First, no, society would not benefit by sending everyone to college...we need highly trained people in skills that don't require college degrees...

But for a moment, I'll grant you that dream...does not the government now have the power to tell people what degree they will get? I don't want to tax fund 1000 people for pre-med and medical school only to find that 800 of them went into cosmetic surgery because that's where the biggest bucks are...and another 150 went into cardiology for the same reason...leaving the critically short General Practice area in a worse way...

Neither do I want tax dollars paying for 1000 medieval literature studies students...

So if the government is going to fund college, what kind of controls are you going to establish???

When did I say everyone must go to college? We need plumbers, electricians, etc... and those skilled jobs do pay pretty well (considering on how to manage your business.) Secondly, It was a thought. You're assuming I have some, well thought out policy that covers everything. It's an idea. I know Americans are egotistical, but maybe..just maybe..we can look at a country that does this and use them as a guide. Not as a solution, but as a guide. Americans like to say, " I don't care how you did it over there/up north/down south", and that is just arrogant nonsense. Everything in this country is for a profit. Some things shouldn't be. We shouldn't be lining our pockets at the expense (and under the pretense) of education and healthcare (for example).


Also, while you cannot be a little pregnant (that's science), you can have ideals from various philosophical theories that do not contradict. We already have it today. We have equal protection of the law (how Republican of us) yet we don't allow certain people to marry. Equal by separate is alive and well. It just looks different.

[Ibanez]

We are a little socialist. Here's the website:

http://www.ed.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Public education (taxpayer funded) K-12.

[Baldy]

One of Obama's larger donors owns one of the largest for profit network of schools out there...yet no mention from you...again.

I honestly didn't know that. It hasnt been very well publicised. blame Common Dreams...

I blame Donk Underground.