4000 US Troops Back In Iraq

[VictorG]

This was not a surprise which enforces much of what I'm hearing/reading elsewhere....

This is from April....

Pentagon quietly sends more intelligence officers to Iraq

http://rt.com/usa/155460-us-intel-officers-iraq/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SDHornet]

Is anyone really surprised this happened? Just more reason to become energy independent. Yay cap and trade!!!

[YoUDeeMan]

I feel bad for the US troops that served in Iraq & especially those that died when you watch what's going on over there right now. It was all for nothing.

Vietnam, Part Deux.

Face it, we got into Iraq, and Obama actually wanted to keep us there, despite his campaign promises. But the Iraqi government said, no, so most of our folks had to go...except for those funny support units.

Then, Obama make the decision to help fund and supply the Syrian resistance, "freedom fighters" ( ), while continuing to help the Kurds...botjh of whom are playing a role in destabilizing Iraq). What a fvcking joke.

All this while Obama helps prop up some of the most oppressive, freedom crushing governments on the planet.

CHANGE! <-------- That is too comical.

[CID1990]

I feel bad for the US troops that served in Iraq & especially those that died when you watch what's going on over there right now. It was all for nothing.

Vietnam, Part Deux.

Face it, we got into Iraq, and Obama actually wanted to keep us there, despite his campaign promises. But the Iraqi government said, no, so most of our folks had to go...except for those funny support units.

Then, Obama make the decision to help fund and supply the Syrian resistance, "freedom fighters" ( ), while continuing to help the Kurds...botjh of whom are playing a role in destabilizing Iraq). What a fvcking joke.

All this while Obama helps prop up some of the most oppressive, freedom crushing governments on the planet.

CHANGE! <-------- That is too comical.

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

[Chizzang]

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

Right but - this is why a nation (such as America) must have an actual "Foreign Policy"
not an energy grab / slash / Resource grab policy run by Multi-national corporations

We have a shambles for "useable functional policy" in regards to the long play...



Unless you consider Rare Earth Mining Rights and Oil Extraction "The Long Play"

[CID1990]

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

Right but - this is why a nation (such as America) must have an actual "Foreign Policy"
not an energy grab / slash / Resource grab policy run by Multi-national corporations

We have a shambles for "useable functional policy" in regards to the long play...



Unless you consider Rare Earth Mining Rights and Oil Extraction "The Long Play"

oh

when you said, "Right BUT" I thought you were about to disagree with what I said about the status of forces agreement or the Montagnard-Kurd parallel

[Chizzang]

Right but - this is why a nation (such as America) must have an actual "Foreign Policy"
not an energy grab / slash / Resource grab policy run by Multi-national corporations

We have a shambles for "useable functional policy" in regards to the long play...



Unless you consider Rare Earth Mining Rights and Oil Extraction "The Long Play"

oh

when you said, "Right BUT" I thought you were about to disagree with what I said about the status of forces agreement or the Montagnard-Kurd parallel

I'm pretty sure we - at least in significant part - agree on this one

[kalm]

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

Right but - this is why a nation (such as America) must have an actual "Foreign Policy"
not an energy grab / slash / Resource grab policy run by Multi-national corporations

We have a shambles for "useable functional policy" in regards to the long play...



Unless you consider Rare Earth Mining Rights and Oil Extraction "The Long Play"

I think CID likes to mention that we don't have allies, we have interests(or something like that). The same could be said for policies.

[CID1990]

Right but - this is why a nation (such as America) must have an actual "Foreign Policy"
not an energy grab / slash / Resource grab policy run by Multi-national corporations

We have a shambles for "useable functional policy" in regards to the long play...



Unless you consider Rare Earth Mining Rights and Oil Extraction "The Long Play"

I think CID likes to mention that we don't have allies, we have interests(or something like that). The same could be said for policies.

If your policy (foreign or otherwise) does not precisely mirror your interests then you are doing it wrong

I'm sure Otto von Bismarck said something along these lines but Im not looking

[Chizzang]

I think CID likes to mention that we don't have allies, we have interests(or something like that). The same could be said for policies.

If your policy (foreign or otherwise) does not precisely mirror your interests then you are doing it wrong

I'm sure Otto von Bismarck said something along these lines but Im not looking

Right... so if your "interests" don't involve fighting the Taliban
(at $2 Trillion dollars a decade in Chinese loans)
Then you probably should NOT fund them / Arm them / and Train them in the prior decade



we have NO long play Foreign Policy

[CID1990]

If your policy (foreign or otherwise) does not precisely mirror your interests then you are doing it wrong

I'm sure Otto von Bismarck said something along these lines but Im not looking

Right... so if your "interests" don't involve fighting the Taliban
(at $2 Trillion dollars a decade in Chinese loans)
Then you probably should NOT fund them / Arm them / and Train them in the prior decade



we have NO long play Foreign Policy

you act like this is something new

No European (or derivative) power has EVER had a long game

That is solely the bailiwick of Asians (namely, the Chinese)

and that is why they will dominate the world forever, starting very soon

[CitadelGrad]

Right... so if your "interests" don't involve fighting the Taliban
(at $2 Trillion dollars a decade in Chinese loans)
Then you probably should NOT fund them / Arm them / and Train them in the prior decade



we have NO long play Foreign Policy

you act like this is something new

No European (or derivative) power has EVER had a long game

That is solely the bailiwick of Asians (namely, the Chinese)

and that is why they will dominate the world forever, starting very soon

The British Empire had a long game.

Fuck China. Paper tiger.

[CID1990]

you act like this is something new

No European (or derivative) power has EVER had a long game

That is solely the bailiwick of Asians (namely, the Chinese)

and that is why they will dominate the world forever, starting very soon

The British Empire had a long game.

**** China. Paper tiger.

No, they didn't-

if they did they never would have pushed Versailles. WWII was the end of the British Empire and it never needed to happen

Pat Buchanan (who I take with a grain of salt most of the time) wrote a very good book on the subject

But while we are talking about interests and properly defending them:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/worl ... 116273.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Iran is moving into Baghdad to help their Shia allies. Like Yoda said, "Begun, the Shia-Sunni Wars, have."

It has been on a slow burn for a few years now but sh!ts about to get REAL!

[Chizzang]

Iran is moving into Baghdad to help their Shia allies. Like Yoda said, "Begun, the Shia-Sunni Wars, have."

It has been on a slow burn for a few years now but sh!ts about to get REAL!

Which is why Iran really really needs to have their Nuclear Program up and running properly
This could be a two for one deal

[CID1990]

Iran is moving into Baghdad to help their Shia allies. Like Yoda said, "Begun, the Shia-Sunni Wars, have."

It has been on a slow burn for a few years now but sh!ts about to get REAL!

Which is why Iran really really needs to have their Nuclear Program up and running properly
This could be a two for one deal

believe me.... I am TOTALLY like this:

[YoUDeeMan]

Vietnam, Part Deux.

Face it, we got into Iraq, and Obama actually wanted to keep us there, despite his campaign promises. But the Iraqi government said, no, so most of our folks had to go...except for those funny support units.

Then, Obama make the decision to help fund and supply the Syrian resistance, "freedom fighters" ( ), while continuing to help the Kurds...botjh of whom are playing a role in destabilizing Iraq). What a fvcking joke.

All this while Obama helps prop up some of the most oppressive, freedom crushing governments on the planet.

CHANGE! <-------- That is too comical.

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

CID, is that really you?

Are we talking about the same Kurds?

"IRBIL, Iraq — Iraq was on the brink of falling apart Thursday as al-Qaeda renegades asserted their authority over Sunni areas in the north, Kurds seized control of the city of Kirkuk and the Shiite-led government appealed for volunteers to help defend its shrinking domain.But there was no sign that the militant push was being reversed. With the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and Syria now sweeping south toward Baghdad, scattering U.S.-trained security forces in its wake, the achievements of America’s eight-year war in Iraq were rapidly being undone. Iraq now seems to be inexorably if unintentionally breaking apart, into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish enclaves that amount to the de facto partition of the country.

As the scale of the threat to the collapsing Iraqi state became clear, Obama administration officials met to discuss options for a response, including possible airstrikes. An Iraqi official in the office of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the United States had committed to carrying out airstrikes against the militants, but U.S. officials said no decision had been reached.

President Obama indicated there would be some form of intervention, though he did not specify what. “It’s fair to say . . . there will be some short-term things that need to be done militarily,” he said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this isn't anything new for the Kurds...they have wanted to establish their own homeland for quite some time, and part of their historic lands are in Iraq. Iraq was carved out by the Western powers and the Kurds have been simmering for quite some time under the iron fist of (ironically) American and Russian supplied dictator puppets.

Man, I hate to quote Wikipedia, but this will cover it in general:

Kurds led by Mustafa Barzani were engaged in heavy fighting against successive Iraqi regimes from 1960 to 1975. In March 1970, Iraq announced a peace plan providing for Kurdish autonomy. The plan was to be implemented in four years.[181] However, at the same time, the Iraqi regime started an Arabization program in the oil-rich regions of Kirkuk and Khanaqin.[182] The peace agreement did not last long, and in 1974, the Iraqi government began a new offensive against the Kurds. Moreover in March 1975, Iraq and Iran signed the Algiers Accord, according to which Iran cut supplies to Iraqi Kurds. Iraq started another wave of Arabization by moving Arabs to the oil fields in Kurdistan, particularly those around Kirkuk.[183] Between 1975 and 1978, 200,000 Kurds were deported to other parts of Iraq.[184]

During the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, the regime implemented anti-Kurdish policies and a de facto civil war broke out. Iraq was widely condemned by the international community, but was never seriously punished for oppressive measures such as the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians, the wholesale destruction of thousands of villages and the deportation of thousands of Kurds to southern and central Iraq.

The genocidal campaign, conducted between 1986 and 1989 and culminating in 1988, carried out by the Iraqi government against the Kurdish population was called Anfal ("Spoils of War"). The Anfal campaign led to destruction of over two thousand villages and killing of 182,000 Kurdish civilians.[185] The campaign included the use of ground offensives, aerial bombing, systematic destruction of settlements, mass deportation, firing squads, and chemical attacks, including the most infamous attack on the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988 that killed 5000 civilians instantly.

After the collapse of the Kurdish uprising in March 1991, Iraqi troops recaptured most of the Kurdish areas and 1.5 million Kurds abandoned their homes and fled to the Turkish and Iranian borders. It is estimated that close to 20,000 Kurds succumbed to death due to exhaustion, lack of food, exposure to cold and disease. On 5 April 1991, UN Security Council passed resolution 688 which condemned the repression of Iraqi Kurdish civilians and demanded that Iraq end its repressive measures and allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations.[186] This was the first international document (since the League of Nations arbitration of Mosul in 1926) to mention Kurds by name. In mid-April, the Coalition established safe havens inside Iraqi borders and prohibited Iraqi planes from flying north of 36th parallel.[187] In October 1991, Kurdish guerrillas captured Erbil and Sulaimaniyah after a series of clashes with Iraqi troops. In late October, Iraqi government retaliated by imposing a food and fuel embargo on the Kurds and stopping to pay civil servants in the Kurdish region. The embargo, however, backfired and Kurds held parliamentary elections in May 1992 and established Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).[188]

The Kurdish population welcomed the American troops in 2003 by holding celebrations and dancing in the streets.[189][190][191][192] The area controlled by peshmerga was expanded, and Kurds now have effective control in Kirkuk and parts of Mosul.

As far as Iraq kicking us out...yes, we got hung up on the immunity for our "security forces" ( ) idea, but let's face it...the Iraqis basically told us to agree to their terms, which they knew we wouldn't, or get out. So yes, they kicked us out since we would not play by their rules.

That deadline for withdrawal was the one originally drawn by Bush, so out we went. But Obama, who wanted our troops to stay, but would not agree to the immunity clause, took credit for getting us out of Iraq.

And here we are...getting involved in another quagmire.

CHANGE!

[CID1990]

A couple points of order-

The Iraqi government said no because we shuffled our feet over the status of forces agreement, it expired, and we lost the immunity agreement. So it was a combination of factors but the Iraqi government wasnt exactly saying "get out"

Second- the Kurds are not nor have they ever been destablising to Iraq. In fact, outside of Israel and Jordan, they are the most functional, normal "state-like" entity in the region, and they are staunch allies. You are right about the Vietnam reference in one respect as it pertains to the Kurds- they faithfully assisted us over the years, and if we abandon them they will go the way of the Montagnards of Vietnam. Seems to me that we lament their (the Montagnards') fate today. I don't think we want to add another group of people to the long list of groups that have learned the hard way that being friends with America is dangerous to your health

CID, is that really you?

Are we talking about the same Kurds?

"IRBIL, Iraq — Iraq was on the brink of falling apart Thursday as al-Qaeda renegades asserted their authority over Sunni areas in the north, Kurds seized control of the city of Kirkuk and the Shiite-led government appealed for volunteers to help defend its shrinking domain.But there was no sign that the militant push was being reversed. With the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and Syria now sweeping south toward Baghdad, scattering U.S.-trained security forces in its wake, the achievements of America’s eight-year war in Iraq were rapidly being undone. Iraq now seems to be inexorably if unintentionally breaking apart, into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish enclaves that amount to the de facto partition of the country.

As the scale of the threat to the collapsing Iraqi state became clear, Obama administration officials met to discuss options for a response, including possible airstrikes. An Iraqi official in the office of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the United States had committed to carrying out airstrikes against the militants, but U.S. officials said no decision had been reached.

President Obama indicated there would be some form of intervention, though he did not specify what. “It’s fair to say . . . there will be some short-term things that need to be done militarily,” he said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this isn't anything new for the Kurds...they have wanted to establish their own homeland for quite some time, and part of their historic lands are in Iraq. Iraq was carved out by the Western powers and the Kurds have been simmering for quite some time under the iron fist of (ironically) American and Russian supplied dictator puppets.

Man, I hate to quote Wikipedia, but this will cover it in general:

Kurds led by Mustafa Barzani were engaged in heavy fighting against successive Iraqi regimes from 1960 to 1975. In March 1970, Iraq announced a peace plan providing for Kurdish autonomy. The plan was to be implemented in four years.[181] However, at the same time, the Iraqi regime started an Arabization program in the oil-rich regions of Kirkuk and Khanaqin.[182] The peace agreement did not last long, and in 1974, the Iraqi government began a new offensive against the Kurds. Moreover in March 1975, Iraq and Iran signed the Algiers Accord, according to which Iran cut supplies to Iraqi Kurds. Iraq started another wave of Arabization by moving Arabs to the oil fields in Kurdistan, particularly those around Kirkuk.[183] Between 1975 and 1978, 200,000 Kurds were deported to other parts of Iraq.[184]

During the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, the regime implemented anti-Kurdish policies and a de facto civil war broke out. Iraq was widely condemned by the international community, but was never seriously punished for oppressive measures such as the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians, the wholesale destruction of thousands of villages and the deportation of thousands of Kurds to southern and central Iraq.

The genocidal campaign, conducted between 1986 and 1989 and culminating in 1988, carried out by the Iraqi government against the Kurdish population was called Anfal ("Spoils of War"). The Anfal campaign led to destruction of over two thousand villages and killing of 182,000 Kurdish civilians.[185] The campaign included the use of ground offensives, aerial bombing, systematic destruction of settlements, mass deportation, firing squads, and chemical attacks, including the most infamous attack on the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988 that killed 5000 civilians instantly.

After the collapse of the Kurdish uprising in March 1991, Iraqi troops recaptured most of the Kurdish areas and 1.5 million Kurds abandoned their homes and fled to the Turkish and Iranian borders. It is estimated that close to 20,000 Kurds succumbed to death due to exhaustion, lack of food, exposure to cold and disease. On 5 April 1991, UN Security Council passed resolution 688 which condemned the repression of Iraqi Kurdish civilians and demanded that Iraq end its repressive measures and allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations.[186] This was the first international document (since the League of Nations arbitration of Mosul in 1926) to mention Kurds by name. In mid-April, the Coalition established safe havens inside Iraqi borders and prohibited Iraqi planes from flying north of 36th parallel.[187] In October 1991, Kurdish guerrillas captured Erbil and Sulaimaniyah after a series of clashes with Iraqi troops. In late October, Iraqi government retaliated by imposing a food and fuel embargo on the Kurds and stopping to pay civil servants in the Kurdish region. The embargo, however, backfired and Kurds held parliamentary elections in May 1992 and established Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).[188]

The Kurdish population welcomed the American troops in 2003 by holding celebrations and dancing in the streets.[189][190][191][192] The area controlled by peshmerga was expanded, and Kurds now have effective control in Kirkuk and parts of Mosul.

As far as Iraq kicking us out...yes, we got hung up on the immunity for our "security forces" ( ) idea, but let's face it...the Iraqis basically told us to agree to their terms, which they knew we wouldn't, or get out. So yes, they kicked us out since we would not play by their rules.

That deadline for withdrawal was the one originally drawn by Bush, so out we went. But Obama, who wanted our troops to stay, but would not agree to the immunity clause, took credit for getting us out of Iraq.

And here we are...getting involved in another quagmire.

CHANGE!

yes we are talking about the same Kurds

the same Kurds and peshmerga that I spent months with in 2004-5

they are not destabilizing- it was the arab iraqis who
have essentially been at war with the kurds -who simply want to be left alone and for their traditional territory to be returned- that includes Kirkuk

iraqi kurdistan has been an
oasis in iraq ever since the no fly zone- and they have one of the BEST border control and intel systems in the world. they catch arabs trying to sneak in ( and they catch them all) they disappear their a$$es

ISIS has skipped past kurdistan because they know the kurds would skullfvck them

and yes am biased because i have a lot of friends in irbil and sulaymaniyah and they are good people and fiercely pro American

[Seahawks08]

CID, is that really you?

Are we talking about the same Kurds?

"IRBIL, Iraq — Iraq was on the brink of falling apart Thursday as al-Qaeda renegades asserted their authority over Sunni areas in the north, Kurds seized control of the city of Kirkuk and the Shiite-led government appealed for volunteers to help defend its shrinking domain.But there was no sign that the militant push was being reversed. With the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and Syria now sweeping south toward Baghdad, scattering U.S.-trained security forces in its wake, the achievements of America’s eight-year war in Iraq were rapidly being undone. Iraq now seems to be inexorably if unintentionally breaking apart, into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish enclaves that amount to the de facto partition of the country.

As the scale of the threat to the collapsing Iraqi state became clear, Obama administration officials met to discuss options for a response, including possible airstrikes. An Iraqi official in the office of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the United States had committed to carrying out airstrikes against the militants, but U.S. officials said no decision had been reached.

President Obama indicated there would be some form of intervention, though he did not specify what. “It’s fair to say . . . there will be some short-term things that need to be done militarily,” he said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this isn't anything new for the Kurds...they have wanted to establish their own homeland for quite some time, and part of their historic lands are in Iraq. Iraq was carved out by the Western powers and the Kurds have been simmering for quite some time under the iron fist of (ironically) American and Russian supplied dictator puppets.

Man, I hate to quote Wikipedia, but this will cover it in general:

Kurds led by Mustafa Barzani were engaged in heavy fighting against successive Iraqi regimes from 1960 to 1975. In March 1970, Iraq announced a peace plan providing for Kurdish autonomy. The plan was to be implemented in four years.[181] However, at the same time, the Iraqi regime started an Arabization program in the oil-rich regions of Kirkuk and Khanaqin.[182] The peace agreement did not last long, and in 1974, the Iraqi government began a new offensive against the Kurds. Moreover in March 1975, Iraq and Iran signed the Algiers Accord, according to which Iran cut supplies to Iraqi Kurds. Iraq started another wave of Arabization by moving Arabs to the oil fields in Kurdistan, particularly those around Kirkuk.[183] Between 1975 and 1978, 200,000 Kurds were deported to other parts of Iraq.[184]

During the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, the regime implemented anti-Kurdish policies and a de facto civil war broke out. Iraq was widely condemned by the international community, but was never seriously punished for oppressive measures such as the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians, the wholesale destruction of thousands of villages and the deportation of thousands of Kurds to southern and central Iraq.

The genocidal campaign, conducted between 1986 and 1989 and culminating in 1988, carried out by the Iraqi government against the Kurdish population was called Anfal ("Spoils of War"). The Anfal campaign led to destruction of over two thousand villages and killing of 182,000 Kurdish civilians.[185] The campaign included the use of ground offensives, aerial bombing, systematic destruction of settlements, mass deportation, firing squads, and chemical attacks, including the most infamous attack on the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988 that killed 5000 civilians instantly.

After the collapse of the Kurdish uprising in March 1991, Iraqi troops recaptured most of the Kurdish areas and 1.5 million Kurds abandoned their homes and fled to the Turkish and Iranian borders. It is estimated that close to 20,000 Kurds succumbed to death due to exhaustion, lack of food, exposure to cold and disease. On 5 April 1991, UN Security Council passed resolution 688 which condemned the repression of Iraqi Kurdish civilians and demanded that Iraq end its repressive measures and allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations.[186] This was the first international document (since the League of Nations arbitration of Mosul in 1926) to mention Kurds by name. In mid-April, the Coalition established safe havens inside Iraqi borders and prohibited Iraqi planes from flying north of 36th parallel.[187] In October 1991, Kurdish guerrillas captured Erbil and Sulaimaniyah after a series of clashes with Iraqi troops. In late October, Iraqi government retaliated by imposing a food and fuel embargo on the Kurds and stopping to pay civil servants in the Kurdish region. The embargo, however, backfired and Kurds held parliamentary elections in May 1992 and established Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).[188]

The Kurdish population welcomed the American troops in 2003 by holding celebrations and dancing in the streets.[189][190][191][192] The area controlled by peshmerga was expanded, and Kurds now have effective control in Kirkuk and parts of Mosul.

As far as Iraq kicking us out...yes, we got hung up on the immunity for our "security forces" ( ) idea, but let's face it...the Iraqis basically told us to agree to their terms, which they knew we wouldn't, or get out. So yes, they kicked us out since we would not play by their rules.

That deadline for withdrawal was the one originally drawn by Bush, so out we went. But Obama, who wanted our troops to stay, but would not agree to the immunity clause, took credit for getting us out of Iraq.

And here we are...getting involved in another quagmire.

CHANGE!

yes we are talking about the same Kurds

the same Kurds and peshmerga that I spent months with in 2004-5

they are not destabilizing- it was the arab iraqis who
have essentially been at war with the kurds -who simply want to be left alone and for their traditional territory to be returned- that includes Kirkuk

iraqi kurdistan has been an
oasis in iraq ever since the no fly zone- and they have one of the BEST border control and intel systems in the world. they catch arabs trying to sneak in ( and they catch them all) they disappear their a$$es

ISIS has skipped past kurdistan because they know the kurds would skullfvck them

and yes am biased because i have a lot of friends in irbil and sulaymaniyah and they are good people and fiercely pro American

CID the voice of reason!

Cluck not knowing what he's talking about par for the course.

[Ibanez]

I feel bad for the US troops that served in Iraq & especially those that died when you watch what's going on over there right now. It was all for nothing.

Vietnam, Part Deux.

Face it, we got into Iraq, and Obama actually wanted to keep us there, despite his campaign promises. But the Iraqi government said, no, so most of our folks had to go...except for those funny support units.

Then, Obama make the decision to help fund and supply the Syrian resistance, "freedom fighters" ( ), while continuing to help the Kurds...botjh of whom are playing a role in destabilizing Iraq). What a fvcking joke.

All this while Obama helps prop up some of the most oppressive, freedom crushing governments on the planet.

CHANGE! <-------- That is too comical.

I don't know why you are being obtuse. Obama kept his promise of change. He's CHANGED out certain military units for another.


We gotta read the fine print...

[YoUDeeMan]

yes we are talking about the same Kurds

the same Kurds and peshmerga that I spent months with in 2004-5

they are not destabilizing- it was the arab iraqis who
have essentially been at war with the kurds -who simply want to be left alone and for their traditional territory to be returned- that includes Kirkuk

iraqi kurdistan has been an
oasis in iraq ever since the no fly zone- and they have one of the BEST border control and intel systems in the world. they catch arabs trying to sneak in ( and they catch them all) they disappear their a$$es

ISIS has skipped past kurdistan because they know the kurds would skullfvck them

and yes am biased because i have a lot of friends in irbil and sulaymaniyah and they are good people and fiercely pro American

CID the voice of reason!

Cluck not knowing what he's talking about par for the course.

If our Indians decided to take back their own homeland (their traditional homeland, not just the small reservations we "granted" them), and took up arms for it (as the Kurds have done repeatedly for DECADES), we'd call them terrorists and squash them. And, of course, they'd be trying to destabilize the United States. Ditto the Kurds. Ditto the IRA. Ditto the Muslins who want ALL previously Muslin territory returned to their control (what a concept ).

No getting around this one...the Kurds have not been peaceful, silent partners just willing to live in the territories granted them. They want their land back...and the US has been providing a TON of support, specifically to slap the Iraqis in their collective faces and to keep another attack dog (and thorn in the bad guy's side), like Israel, on our leash.

Sorry CID...your bias is clearly showing. Unless you propose to free all people and return their native lands, while ignoring the current world order, then you are failing badly on this one.

And Seahawks08 is what he is...an idiot of epic proportions.

[Chizzang]

yes we are talking about the same Kurds

the same Kurds and peshmerga that I spent months with in 2004-5

they are not destabilizing- it was the arab iraqis who
have essentially been at war with the kurds -who simply want to be left alone and for their traditional territory to be returned- that includes Kirkuk

iraqi kurdistan has been an
oasis in iraq ever since the no fly zone- and they have one of the BEST border control and intel systems in the world. they catch arabs trying to sneak in ( and they catch them all) they disappear their a$$es

ISIS has skipped past kurdistan because they know the kurds would skullfvck them

and yes am biased because i have a lot of friends in irbil and sulaymaniyah and they are good people and fiercely pro American

Damn interesting CID
Thanks for the FREE intel

[CID1990]

yes we are talking about the same Kurds

the same Kurds and peshmerga that I spent months with in 2004-5

they are not destabilizing- it was the arab iraqis who
have essentially been at war with the kurds -who simply want to be left alone and for their traditional territory to be returned- that includes Kirkuk

iraqi kurdistan has been an
oasis in iraq ever since the no fly zone- and they have one of the BEST border control and intel systems in the world. they catch arabs trying to sneak in ( and they catch them all) they disappear their a$$es

ISIS has skipped past kurdistan because they know the kurds would skullfvck them

and yes am biased because i have a lot of friends in irbil and sulaymaniyah and they are good people and fiercely pro American

Damn interesting CID
Thanks for the FREE intel

easily available in open source

otherwise you wouldn't be hearing it from me

except for the part where I have Kurd friends from my time over there

[CID1990]

Sorry CID...your bias is clearly showing. Unless you propose to free all people and return their native lands, while ignoring the current world order, then you are failing badly on this one.

No, I don't propose that.

I have no problems looking at myself in the mirror while supporting the Kurdish right to self determination or even statehood while ignoring other ethnic groups' varying gripes- because I support that which is in the best interests of the United States. All else is fluff.

heck I'm Scottish and I dont care about the coming referendum

perfectly comfy in my own skin on matters like this- and when it comes to the real reasons we are over there in the first place.... I cannot think of a better group to have control of the Kirkuk oil fields

[YoUDeeMan]

Sorry CID...your bias is clearly showing. Unless you propose to free all people and return their native lands, while ignoring the current world order, then you are failing badly on this one.

No, I don't propose that.

I have no problems looking at myself in the mirror while supporting the Kurdish right to self determination or even statehood while ignoring other ethnic groups' varying gripes- because I support that which is in the best interests of the United States. All else is fluff.

heck I'm Scottish and I dont care about the coming referendum

perfectly comfy in my own skin on matters like this- and when it comes to the real reasons we are over there in the first place.... I cannot think of a better group to have control of the Kirkuk oil fields

That's why you are respected...straight shooter.

Hey, at this time, I'd choose the Kurds over the other Muslin turds in that area every time as long as everyone is calling a spade a spade. Instead, we continue to tell silly stories about supporting, "freedom fighters" ( ) on one hand while remaining mum about supporting some of the most ruthless, backassward, whack-job governments in the world.

As you know though, it is only in our (short term) self-interest to support the Kurds if we continue to use oil (instead of a real, not half-azzed, policy of pouring billions into renewable energy sources) and service the multinational energy companies.

Get off the oil teet and I say let the f*cks kill each other and then kill whomever remains standing that wants a piece of us.

BTW, I'm also Scottish (and Irish, and English, and Welsh...a mutt really) and I'd like to see Scotland break away form England...if only to see the entrenched powers have a heart attack. Oh, and watch Obama eat his words about the Crimean independence vote.

[BlueHen86]

We need to get out of Iraq ASAP. We should never have gone in, and we won't gain anything by staying.

We need to get out of Afghanistan too. We went in to get Bin Laden, he's dead. No point in staying, the natives will wait us out and kill our troops in the meantime.