Should SUU join the Big Sky?

[SDHornet]

NAU is not leaving the Big Sky for a no-auto-bid basketball conference.

I think the Great West would change its name to Big West if it were to take up football. And I think the Big West does get an automatic qualifier for the basketball tournament.

[kemajic]

Better:

Great West
CPSLO
Davis
SacSt
NAU
SUU
San Diego
Fullerton
Northridge or Bakersfield
Long Beach or Riverside

Big Sky
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
Idaho St
Utah St
Weber
EWU
PSU
UNC

NAU is not leaving the Big Sky for a no-auto-bid basketball conference.

And Utah State will not go FCS, nor will IDAHO, unless you are planning on elevating all those schools to FBS.

No probability of reality attached; just logic that recognizes that the expense side of the equation is looming larger with all ADs and geographically tighter conferences not only reduce travel costs, but favor better attendance and rivalries.

Since the FCS/1AA playoffs started, NAU has exactly 0 autobids in the BSC; it's not clear why that would be such a big deal. Besides, that Great West would be stronger and might be awarded one, since they're expanding to 20 playoff teams.

Never is a very large word, sort of like can't.

[dbackjon]

The only scenario that I can envision NAU leaving the Big Sky is if enough Big West teams added football, and the Big West invited NAU and Sac State.

[BlackFalkin]

The big sky should've NEVER snatched up UNC, the big west would be able to stay afloat much longer.

Great West

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Southern Utah
Cs Fullerton(if possible)
UC Riverside(if possible)
CS Long Beach(if possible)

If they cant get at least 2 more football schools by 2011, they can kiss great west football goodbye.

Big Sky

Eastern
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Portland
Weber
Idaho st
Montana
Montana st
Sacramento

and its gonna stay like that.

the only thing that might happen is WHEN the Great West goes defunct, the Big Sky might *give* the great west 2 teams to stay alive. And those teams are Sac st. & UNC.If i was the head guy of the Sky, i wouldnt do a damn thing. I would watch the great west lose it's credibility faster than an autistic kid in court.

[kemajic]

The only scenario that I can envision NAU leaving the Big Sky is if enough Big West teams added football, and the Big West invited NAU and Sac State.

The whole scenario evolved about speculation that Fullerton and possibly other CA schools were considering revitalizing football programs at the FCS level (see two other threads). This discussion is about FB.

[dbackjon]

The only scenario that I can envision NAU leaving the Big Sky is if enough Big West teams added football, and the Big West invited NAU and Sac State.

The whole scenario evolved about speculation that Fullerton and possibly other CA schools were considering revitalizing football programs at the FCS level (see two other threads). This discussion is about FB.

Understood. But Fullerton alone is not enough - LBSU, CSUN, UofP, Bakersfield, and Riverside, etc would need to as well


Flagstaff is actually as close to Irvine/Fullerton/Northridge (within 30 miles, driving time about the same) as Sacramento is.

All current Big West members, with the exception of Pacific, are closer to NAU than the nearest Big Sky school, Weber

[BlackFalkin]

DBACK, NAU has been a member of the big sky for 40 years, they arent going anywhere.

[dbackjon]

DBACK, NAU has been a member of the big sky for 40 years, they arent going anywhere.

I know that - but certain Montana posters don't seem to understand that.

[kemajic]

Flagstaff is actually as close to Irvine/Fullerton/Northridge (within 30 miles, driving time about the same) as Sacramento is.

All current Big West members, with the exception of Pacific, are closer to NAU than the nearest Big Sky school, Weber

I couldn't have said it any better.

[dbackjon]

Flagstaff is actually as close to Irvine/Fullerton/Northridge (within 30 miles, driving time about the same) as Sacramento is.

All current Big West members, with the exception of Pacific, are closer to NAU than the nearest Big Sky school, Weber

I couldn't have said it any better.

From a geography standpoint, Big West makes sense for NAU. Not sure Big West would be keen on NAU, though.

Culturally, NAU fits in the Big Sky.

[kemajic]

DBACK, NAU has been a member of the big sky for 40 years, they arent going anywhere.

I know that - but certain Montana posters don't seem to understand that.

Understand perfectly that NAU has been a BSC member since '70. Understand also that none of the other members enjoy the trip down there or its costs. New drivers (like travel costs) can impact the status quo, especially when on the finacial edge. Time changes things.

[collegesportsinfo]

The BSC is taking enoromous flak for its last addition of a Great West dormat, UNC. There is no need for another.

I was in support of adding both NDSU and SDSU at the time that UNC was added. But the colorado market and ease of travel seemed to make the most sense for the Big sky at the time. Alas, I just don't think the Big sky would want to expand by 2 teams and the Dakotas are a bit far away to only bring in 1. Meanwhile, UND and USD are left out from virtually ANY Big sky scenario.

[collegesportsinfo]

I've always been curious about the SUU situation, but don't think the Big Sky would come calling unless they needed to.

The only scenario that made any sense (and still a longshot) would be:
* Fullerton adds football and the Big West sponsors the sport (Fullerton, UC Davis, Cal Poly with UND, USD and SUU as associate members)
* With Big West football sponsorship, Sac St. leaves the Big Sky for the Big West for all sports (football=Sac St, Fullerton, UC Davis, Cal Poly with UND, USD and SUU as associate members)
* Big Sky looks to replace Sac St. Options are to expand by (2) and bring NDSU and SDSU as travel partners OR go with a single school to replace the loss of a single school.
* Big Sky invites SUU as a natural geographic rival for NAU and Weber St. rather than a pair of Dakota schools.

Better:

Great West
CPSLO
Davis
SacSt
NAU
SUU
San Diego
Fullerton
Northridge or Bakersfield
Long Beach or Riverside

Big Sky
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
Idaho St
Utah St
Weber
EWU
PSU
UNC

A few points to bring up here:
* NAU would need to find a new conference for their other sports as the Big Sky won't permit them to play football in another conference. The Big West would likely pass now that they have finally become a travel-cost-friendly (bus) league.
* San Diego would be a great candidate is they upgrade their scholarships.
* Only Fullerton and LBSU have mentioned football, with Long Beach students failing to vote in favor of the athletics increase (for ALL sports). So football in LBSU is far, far from happening. But it's still a better chance than Northridge, Bakersfield or Riverside who have no interest at this time in football.
* Utah St. seems to be in favor of finding whatever way they can to remain FBS. they just need to make it through the tough economy.

So of all the GWFC options, the only ones I could see in order of real chances are:
1) a San Diego upgrade
2) Fullerton brings back football causing the formation of Big West football
3) If Big West football is formed, perhaps Sac St. would consider joining for all-sports

[collegesportsinfo]

NAU is not leaving the Big Sky for a no-auto-bid basketball conference.

I think the Great West would change its name to Big West if it were to take up football. And I think the Big West does get an automatic qualifier for the basketball tournament.

Que? By "change name" do you mean that the office of the Big West Conference would decide to sponsor football with it's all-sports members, with UND, USD and SUU joining as affiliates...hence the Great West dropping football sponsorship?

And yes, the Big West has an auto-bid for basketball. But NAU would be a tough sell to gain membership. But if you meant NAU would join the Great West for all-sports, that won't happen. NO team will ever join the Great West for all-sports if they are already in a bid-receiving conference.

The only school to do that in recent years was Chicago St. who left the Summit with hopes of joining a better conference. It didn't happen. Fast forward and the Summit is now a more mid-west league with only 3 members falling outside the general footprint (Centenary, Oral Roberts, SUU).

[collegesportsinfo]

I couldn't have said it any better.

From a geography standpoint, Big West makes sense for NAU. Not sure Big West would be keen on NAU, though.

Culturally, NAU fits in the Big Sky.

As someone who was just in Flagstaff this past week, I agree

[kemajic]

From a geography standpoint, Big West makes sense for NAU. Not sure Big West would be keen on NAU, though.

Culturally, NAU fits in the Big Sky.

As someone who was just in Flagstaff this past week, I agree

Culture is interesting, but there is money in reduced travel expenses.

[collegesportsinfo]

As someone who was just in Flagstaff this past week, I agree

Culture is interesting, but there is money in reduced travel expenses.

Agreed. But with Sac St. in the league, it's hard to point fingers at NAU. Neither has a great travel partner with Weber St. the closest to

[GeauxSioux]

Yeah i just noticed that. When will North Dakotas get their name issue resolved? And what is the story behind that? I know it has something to deal with the tribes of Sioux but whats the full issue.

A few years back the NCAA deemed that nicknames using Native American names and imagery were "hostile and abusive". A few schools got waivers, due to "a" tribe within their state saying it was okay. With FSU I'm sure it comes down to how much money the Seminoles are getting from the state in one way or another.

UND fought the NCAA and took them to court. In October 2007 the two parties settled. See settlement here....http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=5824. UND has until Nov. 30, 2010 to get tribal approval from the Standing Rock AND Spirit Lake tribes to keep the name or change it and move on. The tribal council from Standing Rock has been vocal in their opposition to the name. Spirit Lake, less so.

A couple of weeks ago the issue was placed on the ballot as a referendum for an election at Spirit Lake. The nickname received of 2/3 the votes in approval of the Fighting Sioux name. This is not binding and UND would still need an official statement from the tribe for their approval, but it is a step in the right direction for keeping the name.

Ron his Horse is Thunder is the leader at Standing Rock and is adamant in his rejection of the name. I'm certain if the name issue were to be put on the ballot at Standing Rock, you would see similar response to the Spirit Lake vote. Those who oppose the name are in the minority, unfortunately they are the ones who control the power, just like the PC in DC.

Part of the reason for the push back from the tribal councils comes from the construction of the Ralph. When Ralph Engelstad donated $100M+ for the new arena he made sure that the logo was everywhere. See photos here.....http://www.pbase.com/mmingo/grandforks_jan2007

There is an entire section of forum at Siouxsports.com dedicated to the name issue for more information and dicussion.....http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?showforum=2

[dbackjon]

Thanks for the info, and welcome back, GeauxSioux

[kemajic]

Culture is interesting, but there is money in reduced travel expenses.

Agreed. But with Sac St. in the league, it's hard to point fingers at NAU. Neither has a great travel partner with Weber St. the closest to

They both would be better fits in the Great West.

[Mike Johnson]

All current Big West members, with the exception of Pacific, are closer to NAU than the nearest Big Sky school, Weber

NAU to Weber State is 548 miles.
NAU to Idaho State is 675 miles.

NAU to UC Davis is 772 miles.
NAU to Pacific is 716 miles.
NAU to Cal Poly is 621 miles.
NAU to UC Santa Barbara is 556 miles

NAU to CS-Northridge is 484 miles
CS-Sacramento to CS-Northridge is 371

Of course, it is only 283 miles from NAU to Southern Utah.
Or perhaps you prefer Grand Canyon, which announced over a year ago that it starting football and is rumored to be considering a move up to Division I and Grand Canyon is 139 miles from NAU.

Great West for most sports is in trouble because of South Dakota going to the Summit in 2010. But, in football, it is doubtful either South Dakota or North Dakota will be leaving any time soon.

The Big West appears to be uninterested in any team outside of California right now.

[dbackjon]

Forgot about UC-Davis.

My criteria is not actual miles, but time taken to travel by car/bus.

And yes, the Big West currently has no interest in a school like NAU

[Mike Johnson]

Yeah, and having a grand canyon in between NAU and the Utah schools doesn't help either.

BTW, my distances come from google maps and while I didn't record the hours, they are also presented. Still having a majority of schools in Big West closer than the closest in your own conference is the issue you were making.

I-FCS in the west is much better off than Division II in the west, regardless, in terms of football. One strong and one struggling conference vs. one struggling conference. Central Washington fans are talking about CWU moving up to I-FCS and joining the Big Sky. I think if they do, they will not be picked up by the Big Sky, but rather by the Great West and that could help the Great West a lot. If Grand Canyon adds football and moves up, it would create the situation where Washington, California, Utah, and Arizona all have teams in each I-FCS conference.

[dbackjon]

Central Washington should move up - they would be a good fit.

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

[kemajic]

Central Washington should move up - they would be a good fit.

Grand Canyon won't be adding football anytime soon - they want to concentrate first on getting the new arena built, and their existing sports better before adding anything.

A better plan would be to add CWU to the BSC (natural rivalry with EWU) and send either SacSt or UNC back to the Great West.