Next big showdown with BLM

[travelinman67]

It's not about enviromentalists, envirowhackows, plants, water, etc.

It's about sensitive archaeological sites.

Maybe you think ATV use is more important than sites that are thousands of years old. Some people disagree with you. Suck it up and ride a different trail.

Notice none of the posters making a stink of this even live in Utah, or do anything outdoors that doesn't involve a gun and/or motorized vehicle.

You know NOTHING about where I recreate or what I do, Twerp. Speak for yourself, not others who actually have a life.

[houndawg]

It's not about enviromentalists, envirowhackows, plants, water, etc.

It's about sensitive archaeological sites.

Maybe you think ATV use is more important than sites that are thousands of years old. Some people disagree with you. Suck it up and ride a different trail.

Archaelogical sites exist EVERYWHERE, Jellydonut. Hell, Sacramento City Hall is built on an Indian burial site.Travel within 1/2 mi. of any year-round waterway in the west and you're likely to find an archaelogical site, either Native American, Chinese, Spanish or Early Settlers.

ATV use is not always recreational, sometimes it's a necessity to cover the distance in a reasonable period of time. Take a look at a map, Jelly...the West is expansive...I've been in areas.where the closest roads are 50+ mi. away.

We could bicker about this endlessly, but this Utah incident was about the Federal Govts' arrogant excessive exercise of authority. Rather than marking the site locations and moving the trails AWAY from the sites, BLM fenced off the entire valley KNOWING IT WOULD INCITE THEL LOCALS WHO HAD BEEN looting THERE FOR DECADES.

Those archaeological sites that the locals have been looting and robbing for 150 years belong to us too. I'm happy that the BLM is doing their job and trying to protect our sites from the thieving locals.

[houndawg]

Notice none of the posters making a stink of this even live in Utah, or do anything outdoors that doesn't involve a gun and/or motorized vehicle.

You know NOTHING about where I recreate or what I do, Twerp. Speak for yourself, not others who actually have a life.

Surely you can communicate on a higher plane than this, toejamman.

Twerp is not a pronoun.

[BlueHen86]

It's not about enviromentalists, envirowhackows, plants, water, etc.

It's about sensitive archaeological sites.

Maybe you think ATV use is more important than sites that are thousands of years old. Some people disagree with you. Suck it up and ride a different trail.

Archaelogical sites exist EVERYWHERE, Jellydonut. Hell, Sacramento City Hall is built on an Indian burial site.Travel within 1/2 mi. of any year-round waterway in the west and you're likely to find an archaelogical site, either Native American, Chinese, Spanish or Early Settlers.

ATV use is not always recreational, sometimes it's a necessity to cover the distance in a reasonable period of time. Take a look at a map, Jelly...the West is expansive...I've been in areas.where the closest roads are 50+ mi. away.

We could bicker about this endlessly, but this Utah incident was about the Federal Govts' arrogant excessive exercise of authority. Rather than marking the site locations and moving the trails AWAY from the sites, BLM fenced off the entire valley KNOWING IT WOULD INCITE THEL LOCALS WHO HAD BEEN RIDING THERE FOR DECADES.

So the locals have been trespassing for years? But it the Gov't that's the bad guys.

[BlueHen86]

You know NOTHING about where I recreate or what I do, Twerp. Speak for yourself, not others who actually have a life.

Surely you can communicate on a higher plane than this, toejamman.

Twerp is not a pronoun.

He loves to resort to name calling, as if he is an expert on us, but somehow we know nothing of him.

[houndawg]

Surely you can communicate on a higher plane than this, toejamman.

Twerp is not a pronoun.

He loves to resort to name calling, as if he is an expert on us, but somehow we know nothing of him.

He's a bit high-strung.

[Grizalltheway]

Surely you can communicate on a higher plane than this, toejamman.

Twerp is not a pronoun.

He loves to resort to name calling, as if he is an expert on us, but somehow we know nothing of him.

Seems to be a pattern amongst the conk windbags here.

[houndawg]

He loves to resort to name calling, as if he is an expert on us, but somehow we know nothing of him.

Seems to be a pattern amongst the conk windbags here.

Redundant.

[dbackjon]

Jelly is 100% right - this is a canyon full of treasures

No, Jon.

You AND Jelly are treasures.

Special, sweet treasures.

[Ibanez]

Having just spent 6 days floating Desolation Canyon, about 100 miles north of there, all I can say is thank God the land isn't in the hands of dumbass, greedy conks. There'd be oil rigs all the way up to the edge of the canyon.

**** conks.

Silly donk, If you drove or flew to get there then that fuel came from an oil rig. If it was't for conks your dumb liberal donk azz would have had to walk or ride a bike all the way to Eastern Utah to get there..

Fucking donks

Are we really stooping to this level? Jesus. Guess what? Both parties suck, have made bad mistakes and will continue to make them. The Republicans are not any better.

[Ibanez]

Notice none of the posters making a stink of this even live in Utah, or do anything outdoors that doesn't involve a gun and/or motorized vehicle.

You know NOTHING about where I recreate or what I do, Twerp. Speak for yourself, not others who actually have a life.

Settle down, you might blow out your new heart valves.

[CID1990]

No, Jon.

You AND Jelly are treasures.

Special, sweet treasures.

Note how I did not swing at the "canyons" softball.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

It's not about enviromentalists, envirowhackows, plants, water, etc.

It's about sensitive archaeological sites.

Maybe you think ATV use is more important than sites that are thousands of years old. Some people disagree with you. Suck it up and ride a different trail.

Notice none of the posters making a stink of this even live in Utah, or do anything outdoors that doesn't involve a gun and/or motorized vehicle.

/me raises hand!

I am outdoors a lot in Utah. I am riding my bike home from work today in fact. I don't own an ATV but would if I could afford one. I do have 2 road bikes and 2 mountain bikes and ride all over Utah. Moab and St. George have some of the best mountain biking in the country if you like technical trails and can stand the heat. The BLM is talking about closing lots of trails and is just the beginning. I ride responsibly and stay on the trail and take care of it. There are all kinds of petroglpyhs(SP?) in what they call the little creek mesa down by St George and they are cool to look at but I'd much rather go ride some of the fantastic sandstone trails they have. I just don't know what good public lands are if we can all use them and do it responsibly. The BLM isn't listening to what people are telling them and are unwilling to work with people. The fact they are in total control is the crux of the issue to me.

[travelinman67]

Off to New Mexico...

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB ... S&irpc=932

[kalm]

Notice none of the posters making a stink of this even live in Utah, or do anything outdoors that doesn't involve a gun and/or motorized vehicle.

/me raises hand!

I am outdoors a lot in Utah. I am riding my bike home from work today in fact. I don't own an ATV but would if I could afford one. I do have 2 road bikes and 2 mountain bikes and ride all over Utah. Moab and St. George have some of the best mountain biking in the country if you like technical trails and can stand the heat. The BLM is talking about closing lots of trails and is just the beginning. I ride responsibly and stay on the trail and take care of it. There are all kinds of petroglpyhs(SP?) in what they call the little creek mesa down by St George and they are cool to look at but I'd much rather go ride some of the fantastic sandstone trails they have. I just don't know what good public lands are if we can all use them and do it responsibly. The BLM isn't listening to what people are telling them and are unwilling to work with people. The fact they are in total control is the crux of the issue to me.

Agreed. I'm sure the BLM makes some dumb mistakes in closing off areas and managing land, but they also do a whole bunch of good work. In this region they have aggressively acquired lands over the past 30 years and if you're an outdoorsman it's been a great thing. I can think of 5 separate tracts that I can hike and fish at anytime within an hour of me. One of these was a joint partnership between the BLM and DU where they bought 10,000 acres of scab rock and re-constructed wetlands, sage grouse habit, and stocked a hike in lake with trout. It's an awesome chunk of land to hunt, fish, and hike.

On the other hand, one of my favorite BLM parcels has been used more and more as a fire range and is now covered with spent shell casings, broken glass, and litter. And that's part of their challenge, for every responsible user, there are a few assholes out there who have no clue of land stewardship.

I just don't care for blanket statements that the BLM is some jack-booted uber authoritarian organization out to screw us all (not that you were doing that GFSU). They have many challenges.

[Baldy]

Off to New Mexico...

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB ... S&irpc=932

To quote the article:

Commissioners in Otero County voted 2-0 on Monday night to authorize Sheriff Benny House to open a gate allowing nearly 200 head of cattle into the 23-acre area despite Forest Service restrictions. A third commissioner was out of town for the vote.

"We are reacting to the infringement of the U.S. Forest Service on the water rights of our land-allotment owners," Otero County Commissioner Tommie Herrell told Reuters. "People have been grazing there since 1956."

But a U.S. Forest Service spokesman said the fence has also been there for decades, protecting a delicate ecosystem surrounding a natural spring as well as an endangered species of mouse from being trampled by cattle.

The dispute is the latest squabble between federal authorities and conservative states' rights advocates in the West, who want to take back millions of acres of public land from central government agencies.

First of all, a 2-0 vote.

Second, an endangered mouse? Its a fucking rat...a varmint. It's supposed to die.
What's next, protecting the cockroach?

Third, if the quick little rat can't get out of the way and is squashed by big lumbering cow, it doesn't deserve to live anyway.

[kalm]

Off to New Mexico...

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB ... S&irpc=932

To quote the article:

Commissioners in Otero County voted 2-0 on Monday night to authorize Sheriff Benny House to open a gate allowing nearly 200 head of cattle into the 23-acre area despite Forest Service restrictions. A third commissioner was out of town for the vote.

"We are reacting to the infringement of the U.S. Forest Service on the water rights of our land-allotment owners," Otero County Commissioner Tommie Herrell told Reuters. "People have been grazing there since 1956."

But a U.S. Forest Service spokesman said the fence has also been there for decades, protecting a delicate ecosystem surrounding a natural spring as well as an endangered species of mouse from being trampled by cattle.

The dispute is the latest squabble between federal authorities and conservative states' rights advocates in the West, who want to take back millions of acres of public land from central government agencies.

First of all, a 2-0 vote.

Second, an endangered mouse? Its a fucking rat...a varmint. It's supposed to die.
What's next, protecting the cockroach?

Third, if the quick little rat can't get out of the way and is squashed by big lumbering cow, it doesn't deserve to live anyway.

Yeah! Fuck the bees and bats too...cuz that's how nature works!

[Baldy]

To quote the article:



First of all, a 2-0 vote.

Second, an endangered mouse? Its a fucking rat...a varmint. It's supposed to die.
What's next, protecting the cockroach?

Third, if the quick little rat can't get out of the way and is squashed by big lumbering cow, it doesn't deserve to live anyway.

Yeah! Fuck the bees and bats too...cuz that's how nature works!

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

[Chizzang]

Yeah! Fuck the bees and bats too...cuz that's how nature works!

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

[kalm]

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

They also play a huge role in pollination, similar to bees. We might be fucked without either. But hey...

[Chizzang]

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

They also play a huge role in pollination, similar to bees. We might be fucked without either. But hey...

Interestingly enough...
Those who most often ask: What is that stupid things "purpose?" while pointing at a bat or a frog...
Rarely ask: What is our purpose..? Seriously think about that in the exact same context in which you ponder a Bats purpose...

What is our purpose..? and are humans fulfilling our purpose..?

[Ibanez]

They also play a huge role in pollination, similar to bees. We might be fucked without either. But hey...

Interestingly enough...
Those who most often ask: What is that stupid things "purpose?" while pointing at a bat or a frog...
Rarely ask: What is our purpose..? Seriously think about that in the exact same context in which you ponder a Bats purpose...

What is our purpose..? and are humans fulfilling our purpose..?

WE PROTECT THE TUFTED TITMOUSE! WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND!? THE TITMOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler: show

It's a bird.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

Bats also seem to slow down those pesky wind turbines too.

[Grizalltheway]

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

Hardly enough to make a dent in the population of the swamp Badly lives in.

[Baldy]

Bees actually have a purpose, bats I'm not too sure about.
Those little black plague motherfuckers serve no purpose at all...to anyone or anything.

other than they eat about 500 thousand mosquitoes a night... every night
Bats have a highly evolved "purpose"

Technology has made them obsolete.