Ruby Ridge-style standoff? Bundy says he is prepared to Die

[kalm]

I would venture to guess there's a hell of a lot more going on than a few cows and some turtles here....

Bingo! You earned your pay today, Hippie.

The Bundys have been grazing on this land since the 1870's. The non-sensical $1.35 per animal fee was established in 1993 to make the point that BLM could do it, not that it was necessary or even cost effective (costs the govt more to collect than it brings in). This was just a political pissing match between the ranchers and the Big Govt liberals. The Desert Tortoise is not endangered...anyone who has lived or worked from Palm Springs up to Vegas knows the shits breed like jackrabbits. The Center for Biological Diversity works in concett with the EPA and BLM to target ANY AMERICAN lawfully utilizing our nation's natural resources for "beneficial" purpose.

Both CBD and BLM should be investigated for civil rights (property rights) violations.

That the govt has used approx 200 -armed federal agents including snipers is WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE. At np time did the Bundys threaten the use of deadly force to resist: More apt, the feds recognized the outrageous degree of their action and are responding out of fear and cowardice in expectation of a NORMAL persons response to their unlawful assault.

Links would be helpful.

[travelinman67]

Bingo! You earned your pay today, Hippie.

The Bundys have been grazing on this land since the 1870's. The non-sensical $1.35 per animal fee was established in 1993 to make the point that BLM could do it, not that it was necessary or even cost effective (costs the govt more to collect than it brings in). This was just a political pissing match between the ranchers and the Big Govt liberals. The Desert Tortoise is not endangered...anyone who has lived or worked from Palm Springs up to Vegas knows the shits breed like jackrabbits. The Center for Biological Diversity works in concett with the EPA and BLM to target ANY AMERICAN lawfully utilizing our nation's natural resources for "beneficial" purpose.

Both CBD and BLM should be investigated for civil rights (property rights) violations.

That the govt has used approx 200 -armed federal agents including snipers is WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE. At np time did the Bundys threaten the use of deadly force to resist: More apt, the feds recognized the outrageous degree of their action and are responding out of fear and cowardice in expectation of a NORMAL persons response to their unlawful assault.

Links would be helpful.

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

[D1B]

Links would be helpful.

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

I'll translate this:

"I have no links, other than Spandoesque conk jack towels I read daily"

[houndawg]

Links would be helpful.

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

Just another so-called rugged individual who wants a handout. I wonder if he overgrazes his own land the same way he does ours?

[kalm]

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

Just another so-called rugged individual who wants a handout. I wonder if he overgrazes his own land the same way he does ours?

This. Just like with the Forest Service, the BLM goes to great expense to manage the people's land, creating roads, conducting management studies, protecting key species. I fish several desert creeks on federal land where the BLM has restored riparian habitat after years of cattle destruction. They build fences with cattle crossings to minimize the damage, reintroduce beavers to help with habitat restoration, maintain roads and parking areas for hunters, hikers, and fisherman, all the while working with ranchers and leasing the land for pennies on the dollar.

This guy is a dumbshit of epic proportions who hates his country.

God bless America and it's national heritage.

[houndawg]

Just another so-called rugged individual who wants a handout. I wonder if he overgrazes his own land the same way he does ours?

This. Just like with the Forest Service, the BLM goes to great expense to manage the people's land, creating roads, conducting management studies, protecting key species. I fish several desert creeks on federal land where the BLM has restored riparian habitat after years of cattle destruction. They build fences with cattle crossings to minimize the damage, reintroduce beavers to help with habitat restoration, maintain roads and parking areas for hunters, hikers, and fisherman, all the while working with ranchers and leasing the land for pennies on the dollar.

This guy is a dumbshit of epic proportions who hates his country.

God bless America and it's national heritage.

Mormons hate 'merica.

[Chizzang]

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

This really isn't a satisfactory reply - but thanks anyway...
I guess I'll wait for the whole thing to implode then read the Jon Krakauer Book on it in a couple of years

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Google it. This has been all over the internet for the past two weeks.

Course, MSM, Huffpo, Media Matters, Daily Commie, Dumbocrat Underground, and the other disinfo pubs serving our nation's mentally handicapped won't have any coverage.

Try Drudge.

Just another so-called rugged individual who wants a handout. I wonder if he overgrazes his own land the same way he does ours?

He isn't asking for a handout......hes TAKING it.

Big difference

[houndawg]

Just another so-called rugged individual who wants a handout. I wonder if he overgrazes his own land the same way he does ours?

He isn't asking for a handout......hes TAKING it.

Big difference

And when he gets what he deserves he'll whine like a bitch and tell us all what a victim he is. Make his sorry ass pay the cost of clearing his cattle from our land.

[Chizzang]

He isn't asking for a handout......hes TAKING it.

Big difference

Kinda like the sudetenland...

[houndawg]

He isn't asking for a handout......hes TAKING it.

Big difference

Kinda like the sudetenland...

This dipshit surrendered whatever claim he might have had when he quit paying his fees in '93. Clark County then bought them and retired them. Stupid jackwad has nobody but himself to blame for his predicament. Notice how his neighbor ranchers are not rushing to defend him? His only support is from the militia wackjobs mostly from out of state. That's because he had the only federal grazing permit in the county and was able to feed his cattle for next to nothing. Makes it real hard for the other guys come auction time. And then he snivels about jack booted thugs after he threatens a range war and tries to intimidate spectators.

[houndawg]

Wrong according to who?

To me it's wrong according to anyone who really thinks about it and has a lick of sense. What is the point of having a law that seeks to prevent extinction for the sake of preventing extinction when extinction for every species is inevitable?

Species are going to go extinct. They would go extinct if we weren't here.

This thing of making it this big HUGE priority to prevent ANY species from going extinct regardless of the circumstances is ridiculous. It really is.

If you can show that it's important to our own survival to prevent something from going extinct then that should matter. But, seriously, do you think having this desert tortoise go extinct is going to be a threat to our survival?

If it's possible to keep the desert tortoise they're talking about around for a while longer without disrupting things too much that's fine. But the problem with the Endangered Species Act is that it makes keeping ANY species around the TOP priority regardless of anything else. It shouldn't be like that.

Do you know what would happen if that desert tortoise went extinct? I think I do: Nothing. Nobody would even notice except for people who are pathologically focused on that tortoise. It would make NO difference at all in the lives of 99.999999999999999….and a bunch of other 9s to the right of the decimal point percent of the people. The planet wouldn't crumble. The ecosystems wouldn't collapse. The heavens wouldn't fall from the skies.

Life would go on fine without that species of tortoise.

John, you can't help being a tedious bore, but the least you could do is get a clue. This isn't about the tortise.

[JohnStOnge]

John, you can't help being a tedious bore, but the least you could do is get a clue. This isn't about the tortise.

The tortoise is a factor. Absolutely no doubt about it.

[houndawg]

John, you can't help being a tedious bore, but the least you could do is get a clue. This isn't about the tortise.

The tortoise is a factor. Absolutely no doubt about it.

It wouldn't be if this chump was a good steward of our land.

[travelinman67]

Hdawg, klam.Hippie and Douche1bag...
...you are all clueless.

What legal right does the govt have to confiscate the Bundy's 140 year property rights?

The alleged "tortoise" issue wasn't introduced until 1995, two years after the feds initiated the first legal "cease and desist" action against the Bundys. Yet, even then, the court dismissed the tortoise argument unitil CBD reintroduced a more general threat decision in 2000...NOT INVOLVING THE BUNDY'S ranch.

The only statement made with any truth was Hippie's observation that this federal assault is about other issues other than grazing fees or the desert tortoise.

And BTW, this incident has been the marquee headline on Drudge today. Drudge viewership outnumbers all other online news aggregators COMBINED.

[CitadelGrad]

The Bundy family has been grazing its cattle on that land since the 1870s. If their cattle were going to destroy the turtle habitat, wouldn't that destruction have occurred by now?

[houndawg]

Hdawg, klam.Hippie and Douche1bag...
...you are all clueless.

What legal right does the govt have to confiscate the Bundy's 140 year property rights?

The alleged "tortoise" issue wasn't introduced until 1995, two years after the feds initiated the first legal "cease and desist" action against the Bundys. Yet, even then, the court dismissed the tortoise argument unitil CBD reintroduced a more general threat decision in 2000...NOT INVOLVING THE BUNDY'S ranch.

The only statement made with any truth was Hippie's observation that this federal assault is about other issues other than grazing fees or the desert tortoise.

And BTW, this incident has been the marquee headline on Drudge today. Drudge viewership outnumbers all other online news aggregators COMBINED.

He lost whatever flimsy case he had when he quit paying his fees. Now he's just a squatter and a blowhard. Like Tbag he thinks the rules everybody else has to play by don't apply to him and the govt. owes him a living.

[kalm]

Hdawg, klam.Hippie and Douche1bag...
...you are all clueless.

What legal right does the govt have to confiscate the Bundy's 140 year property rights?

The alleged "tortoise" issue wasn't introduced until 1995, two years after the feds initiated the first legal "cease and desist" action against the Bundys. Yet, even then, the court dismissed the tortoise argument unitil CBD reintroduced a more general threat decision in 2000...NOT INVOLVING THE BUNDY'S ranch.

The only statement made with any truth was Hippie's observation that this federal assault is about other issues other than grazing fees or the desert tortoise.

And BTW, this incident has been the marquee headline on Drudge today. Drudge viewership outnumbers all other online news aggregators COMBINED.

He should lay claim to the property in court. Hey, perhaps we should give all federal land back to the tribes since they worked it before the BLM was formed.

But Michael Jackson was the King of Pop so he must have been the musical version of Drudge?

Bundy made a decision to stop paying and now owes $300,000 which he doesn't want to pay.

Read canyoncat's post and quit hating America.

[VictorG]

He lost whatever flimsy case he had when he quit paying his fees. Now he's just a squatter and a blowhard. Like Tbag he thinks the rules everybody else has to play by don't apply to him and the govt. owes him a living.

This Anything else being brought up is just to stir the pot for public opinion from the "haters". Go get the SOB and end this!!!

[houndawg]

He lost whatever flimsy case he had when he quit paying his fees. Now he's just a squatter and a blowhard. Like Tbag he thinks the rules everybody else has to play by don't apply to him and the govt. owes him a living.

This Anything else being brought up is just to stir the pot for public opinion from the "haters". Go get the SOB and end this!!!

The reason he is the only cattleman left in his area is because nobody can compete against a guy who doesn't have to pay for feed. His entire case is "My granpappy did it so I can do it". He's had decades to evolve his business practices and hasn't. He says he doesn't recognize the feds but he pays federal income tax. He's spent too much time in the desert sun...

[Chizzang]

So... It's not about the turtles then right?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I hope he kills 200+ federal officers...........its their choice to start this and I hope he finishes it.

[JohnStOnge]

The Federal Government controls way too much land.

[travelinman67]

Early today, the grandson Ammon and about 20 other ranchers rode out onto the land (about 964 sq miles) and took back some of the cattle the feds were trying to confiscate. A handful of federal agents confronted them, but backed off when the ranchers stood their ground.

Smart move by the feds.

Adding fuel to the fire, several "militia" groups have begun showing up to support the Bundys.

Note to Hdawg...since math doesn't appear your strong suit, the $1.35/animal fee is an insignificant cost of operation. It is the principle in the initial action, and the subsequent land grab of the 1200 sq miles (total land being confiscated) grazing access under the guise of "endangered species" protection.

Take the time to read up on the Desert Tortoise Protection Center created by the feds after this fiasco began. Nothing more than another Govt money vacuum which collects taxes, fees and fines but contributes little towards its stated mission. When developments in the region shut down after 2007, the Center renewed efforts to collect grazing fees in an effort to sustain their $1m annual budget. There have been extensive "negotiations" between the Bundys and BLM...Bundys claiming they only owe $300k, BLM claiming $1m, BUT, demanding $3m for the Bundys to CONTINUE GRAZING on this same land (apparently ESA extortion, er, I mean "mitigation").

The information is out there...just open your eyes.

BTW...I've never before supported use of force to resist my govts. activity, but must agree with Alphagriz on this:The agents do not have constitutionally founded basis to use deadly force in a govt. initiated attempt to temporarily or permanently confiscate personal property to enforce an ESA order.

I would assert the armed federal agents involved in this operation are acting outside the scope of their sworn authority.

IMHO

[D1B]

Early today, the grandson Ammon and about 20 other ranchers rode out onto the land (about 964 sq miles) and took back some of the cattle the feds were trying to confiscate. A handful of federal agents confronted them, but backed off when the ranchers stood their ground.

Smart move by the feds.

Adding fuel to the fire, several "militia" groups have begun showing up to support the Bundys.

Note to Hdawg...since math doesn't appear your strong suit, the $1.35/animal fee is an insignificant cost of operation. It is the principle in the initial action, and the subsequent land grab of the 1200 sq miles (total land being confiscated) grazing access under the guise of "endangered species" protection.

Take the time to read up on the Desert Tortoise Protection Center created by the feds after this fiasco began. Nothing more than another Govt money vacuum which collects taxes, fees and fines but contributes little towards its stated mission. When developments in the region shut down after 2007, the Center renewed efforts to collect grazing fees in an effort to sustain their $1m annual budget. There have been extensive "negotiations" between the Bundys and BLM...Bundys claiming they only owe $300k, BLM claiming $1m, BUT, demanding $3m for the Bundys to CONTINUE GRAZING on this same land (apparently ESA extortion, er, I mean "mitigation").

The information is out there...just open your eyes.

BTW...I've never before supported use of force to resist my govts. activity, but must agree with Alphagriz on this:The agents do not have constitutionally founded basis to use deadly force in a govt. initiated attempt to temporarily or permanently confiscate personal property to enforce an ESA order.

I would assert the armed federal agents involved in this operation are acting outside the scope of their sworn authority.

IMHO

Yawn. Heard you may visit. Would love to see you.