It there a "Tesla is Motor Trend Car of the Year" thread?

[AZGrizFan]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... y/7320361/

What is it about Tesla and its ability to make major media outlets look like fools?

The latest example came a week ago today when CBS' 60 Minutes aired a report on Tesla and its amazing electric car. It was basically the kind of coverage that any automaker would kill to have (and must have left flummoxed General Motors executives wondering why they never got it for the plug-in Chevrolet Volt).

Just one problem: As the Associated Press reported, a CBS editor made what is being called an "audio error" in dubbing the sound of a loud traditional car engine over footage of the much quieter Tesla electric car. The Model is whisper quiet, no matter how hard you push it.

Auto website Jalopnik broke the story of the fake sound and CBS was in retreat all week.

I saw that last week...60 Minutes says they made an "editing error"...

[89Hen]

I saw that last week...60 Minutes says they made an "editing error"...

I actually remember noting the noise while I watched the segment. There was a story a couple years ago about electric cars having to possibly add some artificial noise for safety reasons. I know I've been snuck up a couple times in parking lots by hybrids and electrics. However, I also read that something like 70% of highway noise is actually tire noise and not engine noise and the tire companies are always working on making quieter tires.

[houndawg]

Just as a point of reference, while I think they're happy with where they are and the progress they're making, Tesla lost money last year:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/autom ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For the year, Tesla reported losses of $74 million on total revenue of $2 billion, compared with a $396.2 million loss on $413.3 million in sales in 2012, when Tesla began delivering its vehicles to customers.

Obviously they did a lot better than 2012 and appear to be heading in the right direction. But I don't think they're turning up their noses at potential sales anywhere.

2 billion in revenue. The interest is there.

[AZGrizFan]

I saw that last week...60 Minutes says they made an "editing error"...

I actually remember noting the noise while I watched the segment. There was a story a couple years ago about electric cars having to possibly add some artificial noise for safety reasons. I know I've been snuck up a couple times in parking lots by hybrids and electrics. However, I also read that something like 70% of highway noise is actually tire noise and not engine noise and the tire companies are always working on making quieter tires.

Having recently purchased a convertible, I can say with 100% certainty, at LEAST 70% of highway noise is from the tires....I couldn't BELIEVE how noisy it is when a truck passes me on the road with the top down.

[Chizzang]

"Book" losses don't mean shit. Seriously. One time expenses, R&D costs in a start-up company, accelerated depreciation, one-time legal expenses related to the "good-ol'-boy" network attempting to freeze them out of the car market, etc., etc.....there's LOTS of ways to make it look like you "lost" money as a company.

Does Tesla have issues? Certainly. Any startup company (especially one in the highly competetive automotive industry) would and does. The range of their vehicles (which is constantly improving, BTW) is probably the least of their concerns...

According to a variety of different sources Tesla is either "very profitable" as of Q1 2013 or still moving profits around to show flat income...

You f**king accountants are masters at this sh!t... "accounting shenanigans"

[89Hen]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsbRHcKP-bM[/youtube]

[AZGrizFan]

"Book" losses don't mean shit. Seriously. One time expenses, R&D costs in a start-up company, accelerated depreciation, one-time legal expenses related to the "good-ol'-boy" network attempting to freeze them out of the car market, etc., etc.....there's LOTS of ways to make it look like you "lost" money as a company.

Does Tesla have issues? Certainly. Any startup company (especially one in the highly competetive automotive industry) would and does. The range of their vehicles (which is constantly improving, BTW) is probably the least of their concerns...

According to a variety of different sources Tesla is either "very profitable" as of Q1 2013 or still moving profits around to show flat income...

You f**king accountants are masters at this sh!t... "accounting shenanigans"

It's not a coincidence that they're just BARELY losing money for 4 consecutive quarters now.

[Chizzang]

According to a variety of different sources Tesla is either "very profitable" as of Q1 2013 or still moving profits around to show flat income...

You f**king accountants are masters at this sh!t... "accounting shenanigans"

It's not a coincidence that they're just BARELY losing money for 4 consecutive quarters now.

I blame these types of accounting shenanigans on YOU..!!! (and your type)

[JohnStOnge]

The range of their vehicles (which is constantly improving, BTW) is probably the least of their concerns…

I would be willing to bet that they are very focused on the range and view that along with the charging time as the primary impediments to sales. Take a look at their own information at http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. They say their range is 300 miles at 55 mph. Obviously if you go on the highway and go faster it's going to be shorter than that. Also, they don't mention temperature but we know from other research that ambient temperature makes a difference.

They describe three charging options once you get to the end of that range or close to it. One gives you 22 miles per hour of charge. The next gives you 29 miles per hour of charge. The "Supercharger" option, they say, gives you 170 miles of range on "as little as 30 minutes" of charge.

And they don't have the network of Supercharging stations out there right now in any case. They say "Tesla plans to install Superchargers on major interstates throughout the country" over the next year. But we all know it's not going to be anything like the coverage there is for the long established fueling network for internal combustion engines even on interstates. And there is a lot of road that isn't interstate.

I don't know why you guys think I'm being negative. The post that started the thread said it's starting to look plausible and I made another post about how technology advances and gets cheaper while using the first electronic calculators that came out as an example. There are plenty of other examples. I have no doubt that it's going to get better.

But right at this moment the range and what it takes to recharge is still an issue. C'mon guys. You know that.

[JohnStOnge]

Look again at the Motor Trend Car of the Year article I linked to start the thread. Look at the paragraph on charging stations:

Moreover, charging will be partially sun-powered -- the stations' roofs are covered with Musk's Solar City photovoltaic cells, but don't worry, you can recharge at night -- and it's permanently free to Model S owners with the 85 kW-hr battery, and 60 kW-hr cars with supercharging capability. As Musk says, as long as you bring enough sandwiches and drinks, you could drive across the country without your wallet. Tesla predicts 100 stations nationwide by 2015.

100 stations by 2015? As of 2012 there were 47,714 miles of interstate in the United States. And there are a lot of other roads and highways. There are plenty of gas stations. I did a quick Google search and saw estimates of around 121,000. And when it's time to get gas it takes less than five minutes to "recharge" completely. If you have a high mileage vehicle like an Altima that "charges" you to a range of about 550 miles. So you're talking 30 minutes to get 170 more miles vs. less than five minutes to get over 500 more miles.

Yes the fuel costs you somewhat more but the MSRP on a Tesla is $69,900 - $93,400. No doubt you can get an internal combustion engine car that is comparable in terms of comfort, room, performance etc. for a whole lot less than that. Way more than enough less to make up for the difference in fuel cost for the overwhelming majority of drivers.

I wish them well and think that eventually electric cars will become much more prevalent. But good GRIEF guys there are still some serious limitations with electric vehicles including the Teslas.

[JohnStOnge]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:

he same thing happened when I drove a Tesla Model S. With the 85 kWh battery, the Tesla is good for around 250 miles. During the afternoon with temperatures above freezing, the discharge rate indicated I wasn’t far off from that kind of efficiency. Driving at night as temperatures fell into the 20s (0C to -5C), I found the range fell noticeably faster than the distance gauge suggested at the start of the trip.

Tesla uses waste heat generated by the electric motor. It’s efficient once there’s waste heat available but that takes time.

One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Users of electric vehicles need to understand that the driving distance specified per charge is given under normal temperature; frigid cold will sharply reduce the available mileage. Using electricity for cabin heating is not the only cause for the shorter driving distance between charging; the battery performance is reduced when cold.

[kalm]

There's a Chinese proverb that says he who attempts to justify does not convince.

[houndawg]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:

he same thing happened when I drove a Tesla Model S. With the 85 kWh battery, the Tesla is good for around 250 miles. During the afternoon with temperatures above freezing, the discharge rate indicated I wasn’t far off from that kind of efficiency. Driving at night as temperatures fell into the 20s (0C to -5C), I found the range fell noticeably faster than the distance gauge suggested at the start of the trip.

Tesla uses waste heat generated by the electric motor. It’s efficient once there’s waste heat available but that takes time.

One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Users of electric vehicles need to understand that the driving distance specified per charge is given under normal temperature; frigid cold will sharply reduce the available mileage. Using electricity for cabin heating is not the only cause for the shorter driving distance between charging; the battery performance is reduced when cold.

$2,000,000,000 in revenue. They're here to stay and the technology will improve, just like solar panels have become efficient enough that PG&E is spending millions lobbying against net metering.... all the energy we could ever use is right there for the taking.

[Chizzang]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:





One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$2,000,000,000 in revenue. They're here to stay and the technology will improve, just like solar panels have become efficient enough that PG&E is spending millions lobbying against net metering.... all the energy we could ever use is right there for the taking.

PG&E is fighting the good fight.... God Save the corporation from the Sun the wind and the Hippies

[HI54UNI]

$2,000,000,000 in revenue. They're here to stay and the technology will improve, just like solar panels have become efficient enough that PG&E is spending millions lobbying against net metering.... all the energy we could ever use is right there for the taking.

PG&E is fighting the good fight.... God Save the corporation from the Sun the wind and the Hippies

The power companies that fight will lose. They need to learn to adapt. Demand charges for residential and time of use rates for everyone are coming. Low income people that can't afford to install solar will get screwed because they won't have anyway to offset.

Also read an article today that suggested that solar will become so prevalent in certain areas that it will screw up the power market in those regions - like wind has done in the midwest. This means suddenly solar won't be profitable and the late comers won't be able to profit.

To me the Tesla auto is nothing compared to the potential from the battery factory they are building. Batteries are the key to making wind and solar truly work. WIthout storage you are screwed without the grid.

[houndawg]

PG&E is fighting the good fight.... God Save the corporation from the Sun the wind and the Hippies

The power companies that fight will lose. They need to learn to adapt. Demand charges for residential and time of use rates for everyone are coming. Low income people that can't afford to install solar will get screwed because they won't have anyway to offset.

Also read an article today that suggested that solar will become so prevalent in certain areas that it will screw up the power market in those regions - like wind has done in the midwest. This means suddenly solar won't be profitable and the late comers won't be able to profit.

To me the Tesla auto is nothing compared to the potential from the battery factory they are building. Batteries are the key to making wind and solar truly work. WIthout storage you are screwed without the grid.

Fuel cells were looking interesting.

[AZGrizFan]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:

he same thing happened when I drove a Tesla Model S. With the 85 kWh battery, the Tesla is good for around 250 miles. During the afternoon with temperatures above freezing, the discharge rate indicated I wasn’t far off from that kind of efficiency. Driving at night as temperatures fell into the 20s (0C to -5C), I found the range fell noticeably faster than the distance gauge suggested at the start of the trip.

Tesla uses waste heat generated by the electric motor. It’s efficient once there’s waste heat available but that takes time.

One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Users of electric vehicles need to understand that the driving distance specified per charge is given under normal temperature; frigid cold will sharply reduce the available mileage. Using electricity for cabin heating is not the only cause for the shorter driving distance between charging; the battery performance is reduced when cold.

Let me ask you one simple question, John: How often, during the course of a year, do you get into your vehicle and drive more than 250 miles without stopping?

I rest my case. The LONGEST trip I've taken in the last year was 507 miles one way to pick up my vintage GTO a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, I hadn't taken a trip longer than 90 miles in over a year. And again, I could have rented a pickup to go get my GTO. You keep harping on the "range" like everyone is out there driving 300 miles a day in zero degree weather. The fact is, the Tesla is a viable alternative for 95% of the cars currently on the road today. Or any day.

[Chizzang]

Let me ask you one simple question, John: How often, during the course of a year, do you get into your vehicle and drive more than 250 miles without stopping?

I rest my case. The LONGEST trip I've taken in the last year was 507 miles one way to pick up my vintage GTO a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, I hadn't taken a trip longer than 90 miles in over a year. And again, I could have rented a pickup to go get my GTO. You keep harping on the "range" like everyone is out there driving 300 miles a day in zero degree weather. The fact is, the Tesla is a viable alternative for 95% of the cars currently on the road today. Or any day.

Now you know what it's like having a little debate with Johnny...
As a conservative you don't get the opportunity to experience him much in on first hand type basis

It's fun how delightfully daft he is about relatively obvious things
Like regular old common sense things - he is truly blinded by his own B.S.

Enjoy it...

Oh, and he'll come back shorty with some barely relevant article about Americans and road trips on which he'll attach another one of his inane observations

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:





One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me ask you one simple question, John: How often, during the course of a year, do you get into your vehicle and drive more than 250 miles without stopping?

I rest my case. The LONGEST trip I've taken in the last year was 507 miles one way to pick up my vintage GTO a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, I hadn't taken a trip longer than 90 miles in over a year. And again, I could have rented a pickup to go get my GTO. You keep harping on the "range" like everyone is out there driving 300 miles a day in zero degree weather. The fact is, the Tesla is a viable alternative for 95% of the cars currently on the road today. Or any day.

I've been reading along with this as it's unfolded and your point has been clear and concise all along and it's befuddling to see him keep prattling about this issue, even though he does say it's promising. I don't know why he'd want to keep on with that issue since it's fairly insignificant to the majority of the people that would be purchasing the car. I guess he likes having his tits ripped off.

Congrats on the Goat as well my man! Is it a Judge?

[Ibanez]

I find it weird doing this when I started the thread to sound an optimistic note about electric cars but I guess it's come to it. Here's something on how electric car range declines when temperature is not ideal:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1732 ... ld-weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the Tesla in particular:





One more general article on batteries in general with a relevant quote on electric vehicles at the end:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... mperatures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me ask you one simple question, John: How often, during the course of a year, do you get into your vehicle and drive more than 250 miles without stopping?

I rest my case. The LONGEST trip I've taken in the last year was 507 miles one way to pick up my vintage GTO a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, I hadn't taken a trip longer than 90 miles in over a year. And again, I could have rented a pickup to go get my GTO. You keep harping on the "range" like everyone is out there driving 300 miles a day in zero degree weather. The fact is, the Tesla is a viable alternative for 95% of the cars currently on the road today. Or any day.

John doesn't drive unless he can use a full tank at one time.

[AZGrizFan]

I've been reading along with this as it's unfolded and your point has been clear and concise all along and it's befuddling to see him keep prattling about this issue, even though he does say it's promising. I don't know why he'd want to keep on with that issue since it's fairly insignificant to the majority of the people that would be purchasing the car. I guess he likes having his tits ripped off.

Congrats on the Goat as well my man! Is it a Judge?

I've had a rare moment of clarity in this thread.

And no, it's not a Judge. I didn't have an extra 30k to throw at it.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I've been reading along with this as it's unfolded and your point has been clear and concise all along and it's befuddling to see him keep prattling about this issue, even though he does say it's promising. I don't know why he'd want to keep on with that issue since it's fairly insignificant to the majority of the people that would be purchasing the car. I guess he likes having his tits ripped off.

Congrats on the Goat as well my man! Is it a Judge?

I've had a rare moment of clarity in this thread.

And no, it's not a Judge. I didn't have an extra 30k to throw at it.

Still cool as shit dude cuz the front ends on those cars are top notch looking muscle cars. It's just the first question you gotta ask about a GTO.

[houndawg]

Let me ask you one simple question, John: How often, during the course of a year, do you get into your vehicle and drive more than 250 miles without stopping?

I rest my case. The LONGEST trip I've taken in the last year was 507 miles one way to pick up my vintage GTO a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, I hadn't taken a trip longer than 90 miles in over a year. And again, I could have rented a pickup to go get my GTO. You keep harping on the "range" like everyone is out there driving 300 miles a day in zero degree weather. The fact is, the Tesla is a viable alternative for 95% of the cars currently on the road today. Or any day.

I've been reading along with this as it's unfolded and your point has been clear and concise all along and it's befuddling to see him keep prattling about this issue, even though he does say it's promising. I don't know why he'd want to keep on with that issue since it's fairly insignificant to the majority of the people that would be purchasing the car. I guess he likes having his tits ripped off.

Congrats on the Goat as well my man! Is it a Judge?

But its important to him and he wants to talk about it. Unfortunately he has family members that act deaf when he's around so he comes here where we can't pretend we can't hear him.....

[AZGrizFan]

I've had a rare moment of clarity in this thread.

And no, it's not a Judge. I didn't have an extra 30k to throw at it.

Still cool as shit dude cuz the front ends on those cars are top notch looking muscle cars. It's just the first question you gotta ask about a GTO.

It's actually not even REALLY a GTO. It's a GTO "tribute"...a converted Lemans with a GTO hood, GTO endura front bumper and GTO badging. I drove a '69 Lemans in HS, but had much difficulty finding one, since most surviving Lemans' have been converted to GTO's! Ah well, it's fun, I get lots of comments, and there's already been 3 naked women in the car at the same time.

[houndawg]

I've been reading along with this as it's unfolded and your point has been clear and concise all along and it's befuddling to see him keep prattling about this issue, even though he does say it's promising. I don't know why he'd want to keep on with that issue since it's fairly insignificant to the majority of the people that would be purchasing the car. I guess he likes having his tits ripped off.

Congrats on the Goat as well my man! Is it a Judge?

I've had a rare moment of clarity in this thread.

And no, it's not a Judge. I didn't have an extra 30k to throw at it.

Buddy in high school had the 426 with 3 deuces.... screamin' bitch that was