CT raises minimum wage to $10.10/hr

[OL FU]

Maybe worse.
Wages for xx% rise - WIN
Prices for everyone rise - LOSE
Marginal businesses shut down - LOSE
Some businesses relocate - LOSE
Unemployment increases - LOSE
Housing oversupply - LOSE
Housing/rent prices fall - LOSE

Again, unemployment doesn't tend to increase, and prices are driven more by demand. I haven't looked to see how demand increases.

Like a lot of "social" Sciences, there aren't many definites in economics but one that no one disputes is the law of supply and demand which would, in this case, say that if wages go up, employment goes down. Now, the law also says all other factors being equal which we know is rarely the case. So there is no doubt that artificially raising wages will impact employment the extent of which will be dependant on all of those other factors. It would be interesting to compare the economy at the time of past minimum wage increases to the one we have today. Considering that the jobs we are creating are significantly part time low wage jobs, it is a little bit concerning this time around.

[ASUG8]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

If you have some profitability target then you just lost a couple of points in gross margin with this. I don't know if McDonald's in Seattle has the same pricing as more rural areas and McD's is large enough to absorb some of the increases. I'm thinking this will most adversely impact the Mom and Pops businesses that are already having to deal with the healthcare mandate at the same time.

[OL FU]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

I have no idea whether the three bucks is a big deal or not. I consider my self lucky to work for a company where this would have no impact on how much we pay people. But all impacted business are not MacDonalds which I would imagine the most profitable of the fast food businesses. Don't know if it still matters but MacD's is probably the least impacted business that this involved.

Now, I am not opposed. I believe we need a minimum wage. But at best it is a bandaid on the issues we have today.

[Chizzang]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

I have no idea whether the three bucks is a big deal or not. I consider my self lucky to work for a company where this would have no impact on how much we pay people. But all impacted business are not MacDonalds which I would imagine the most profitable of the fast food businesses. Don't know if it still matters but MacD's is probably the least impacted business that this involved.

Now, I am not opposed. I believe we need a minimum wage. But at best it is a bandaid on the issues we have today.

When a FORBES magazine says it doesn't matter
And the editor in Chief is Steve Forbes Conservative Political figure himself

The point is
1) Hiring is a LAST RESORT in any business (period)
2) If the difference between $8 and $12 dollars matters - you're NOT REALLY in a position to HIRE
3) McDonalds already proves it doesn't matter for large models
4) Smaller models if they can't afford to pay it = they're already in trouble and just don;t know it

[kalm]

I have no idea whether the three bucks is a big deal or not. I consider my self lucky to work for a company where this would have no impact on how much we pay people. But all impacted business are not MacDonalds which I would imagine the most profitable of the fast food businesses. Don't know if it still matters but MacD's is probably the least impacted business that this involved.

Now, I am not opposed. I believe we need a minimum wage. But at best it is a bandaid on the issues we have today.

When a FORBES magazine says it doesn't matter
And the editor in Chief is Steve Forbes Conservative Political figure himself

The point is
1) Hiring is a LAST RESORT in any business (period)
2) If the difference between $8 and $12 dollars matters - you're NOT REALLY in a position to HIRE
3) McDonalds already proves it doesn't matter for large models
4) Smaller models if they can't afford to pay it = they're already in trouble and just don;t know it

If any of this were true (other #1) you'd have very few small/ma and pa businesses left in America.

[BlueHen86]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

I'm no expert at this stuff. McDonald's probably raises the cost of their burgers a nickel and covers the difference. But I do think this could be a problem for a business that is not as profitable. It may not be the end of the world, but I don't think that it gets brushed off either.

[Chizzang]

When a FORBES magazine says it doesn't matter
And the editor in Chief is Steve Forbes Conservative Political figure himself

The point is
1) Hiring is a LAST RESORT in any business (period)
2) If the difference between $8 and $12 dollars matters - you're NOT REALLY in a position to HIRE
3) McDonalds already proves it doesn't matter for large models
4) Smaller models if they can't afford to pay it = they're already in trouble and just don;t know it

If any of this were true (other #1) you'd have very few small/ma and pa businesses left in America.

isn't that actually the case...?
Here in Seattle at some of the smaller places the economics might be different to a degree
and I'm willing to accept that in the flyover regions the rules change a little

[kalm]

If any of this were true (other #1) you'd have very few small/ma and pa businesses left in America.

isn't that actually the case...?
Here in Seattle at some of the smaller places the economics might be different to a degree
and I'm willing to accept that in the flyover regions the rules change a little

Not yet, but we are seemingly headed there.

I have a friend that owns a coffee shop in Renton and makes a modest living. He runs the shop from open to close 5 days/week and makes supply runs on the 6th while his sig. other keeps the books. He opened this shop to get out of the corporate world and wouldn't trade his success or autonomy for anything. But someday, he'd like to afford an employee so he can occasionally have a two day weekend, or maybe even go somewhere for a brief holiday. A $4 increase pushes that back for him. Meanwhile, Starbucks can absorb that hit while making far inferior coffee.

[kalm]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

If you have some profitability target then you just lost a couple of points in gross margin with this. I don't know if McDonald's in Seattle has the same pricing as more rural areas and McD's is large enough to absorb some of the increases. I'm thinking this will most adversely impact the Mom and Pops businesses that are already having to deal with the healthcare mandate at the same time.

This. But Mom and Pop businesses probably don't have over 50 employees and shouldn't have to worry about the healthcare mandate.

[kalm]

Again, unemployment doesn't tend to increase, and prices are driven more by demand. I haven't looked to see how demand increases.

Like a lot of "social" Sciences, there aren't many definites in economics but one that no one disputes is the law of supply and demand which would, in this case, say that if wages go up, employment goes down. Now, the law also says all other factors being equal which we know is rarely the case. So there is no doubt that artificially raising wages will impact employment the extent of which will be dependant on all of those other factors. It would be interesting to compare the economy at the time of past minimum wage increases to the one we have today. Considering that the jobs we are creating are significantly part time low wage jobs, it is a little bit concerning this time around.

Absolutely agree to the variety of factors notion but there are numerous studies including this one that suggest employment numbers just don't tend to change with minimum wage increases:

Economists have conducted hundreds of studies of the employment impact of the minimum wage. Summarizing those studies is a daunting task, but two recent meta-studies analyzing the research conducted since the early 1990s concludes that the minimum wage has little or no discernible effect on the employment prospects of low-wage workers.
The most likely reason for this outcome is that the cost shock of the minimum wage is small relative to most firms' overall costs and only modest relative to the wages paid to low-wage workers. In the traditional discussion of the minimum wage, economists have focused on how these costs affect employment outcomes, but employers have many other channels of adjustment. Employers can reduce hours, non-wage benefits, or training. Employers can also shift the composition toward
CEPR Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?  23
higher skilled workers, cut pay to more highly paid workers, take action to increase worker productivity (from reorganizing production to increasing training), increase prices to consumers, or simply accept a smaller profit margin. Workers may also respond to the higher wage by working harder on the job. But, probably the most important channel of adjustment is through reductions in labor turnover, which yield significant cost savings to employers.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 013-02.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Washington min. wage has gone up each of the last two years and is now among the nation's highest at $9.32. 75% of my employees are minimum wage earners and yet I had to hire more people last year due to increased business and a high rate of staff turnover from 2012. Wages and payroll tax liabilities (thanks to the Fica tax cuts expiring) went up dramatically, luckily gross revenue increased, but net profits were down.

Lots of intermingling factors as you suggest, but in the end, jobs are still based on demand.

[Chizzang]

isn't that actually the case...?
Here in Seattle at some of the smaller places the economics might be different to a degree
and I'm willing to accept that in the flyover regions the rules change a little

Not yet, but we are seemingly headed there.

I have a friend that owns a coffee shop in Renton and makes a modest living. He runs the shop from open to close 5 days/week and makes supply runs on the 6th while his sig. other keeps the books. He opened this shop to get out of the corporate world and wouldn't trade his success or autonomy for anything. But someday, he'd like to afford an employee so he can occasionally have a two day weekend, or maybe even go somewhere for a brief holiday. A $4 increase pushes that back for him. Meanwhile, Starbucks can absorb that hit while making far inferior coffee.

Dude..!!
I'm in Renton fairly regularly
and I desperately need a real coffee shop there to go to

Don't hold out on me (what's it called)

[BDKJMU]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

Does that include bennies/taxes/insurance, etc?

That $3 may be more like $4-5 after the above is added in.

[Ibanez]

Meh... I stand by my assessment / You guys are pretty dramatic about those 3 dollars
Read the FORBES article where they do the math if McDonalds emplyeees were paid $15 an hour how much would a Big Mac cost... answer: The Same

The average McDonald's in King County Washington executes $2,070,750. in transactions dollars a year
(not including sales tax)

The average daily cost paid out in salary to employees over any given 24 hour period is $1980
That's something like 18 employees plus the managers & assistants

That three bucks is NOT a problem at all
You're doing something like $12.5K in transactions
subtracting $2K in Salary paid out
and Food costs at McDonalds NEVER exceed 33%

Tell me how this is BAD for McDonalds..?

BTW:
I know a guy who owns 4 franchises here and he could care less about minimum wage hikes

Does that include bennies/taxes/insurance, etc?

That $3 may be more like $4-5 after the above is added in.

That's still nothing.

[kalm]

Not yet, but we are seemingly headed there.

I have a friend that owns a coffee shop in Renton and makes a modest living. He runs the shop from open to close 5 days/week and makes supply runs on the 6th while his sig. other keeps the books. He opened this shop to get out of the corporate world and wouldn't trade his success or autonomy for anything. But someday, he'd like to afford an employee so he can occasionally have a two day weekend, or maybe even go somewhere for a brief holiday. A $4 increase pushes that back for him. Meanwhile, Starbucks can absorb that hit while making far inferior coffee.

Dude..!!
I'm in Renton fairly regularly
and I desperately need a real coffee shop there to go to

Don't hold out on me (what's it called)

Espresso Daviso

[Chizzang]

Dude..!!
I'm in Renton fairly regularly
and I desperately need a real coffee shop there to go to

Don't hold out on me (what's it called)

Espresso Daviso

Been there...

[kalm]

Espresso Daviso

Been there...

[CitadelGrad]

Bridgeport, CT: still the "Armpit of New England."

Some 15-yr old Puerto Rican girl threatened to knife me in Bridgeport in 1986. All I did was ask her if she knew of a nearby auto shop.

[CitadelGrad]

Like a lot of "social" Sciences, there aren't many definites in economics but one that no one disputes is the law of supply and demand which would, in this case, say that if wages go up, employment goes down. Now, the law also says all other factors being equal which we know is rarely the case. So there is no doubt that artificially raising wages will impact employment the extent of which will be dependant on all of those other factors. It would be interesting to compare the economy at the time of past minimum wage increases to the one we have today. Considering that the jobs we are creating are significantly part time low wage jobs, it is a little bit concerning this time around.

Absolutely agree to the variety of factors notion but there are numerous studies including this one that suggest employment numbers just don't tend to change with minimum wage increases:

Economists have conducted hundreds of studies of the employment impact of the minimum wage. Summarizing those studies is a daunting task, but two recent meta-studies analyzing the research conducted since the early 1990s concludes that the minimum wage has little or no discernible effect on the employment prospects of low-wage workers.
The most likely reason for this outcome is that the cost shock of the minimum wage is small relative to most firms' overall costs and only modest relative to the wages paid to low-wage workers. In the traditional discussion of the minimum wage, economists have focused on how these costs affect employment outcomes, but employers have many other channels of adjustment. Employers can reduce hours, non-wage benefits, or training. Employers can also shift the composition toward
CEPR Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?  23
higher skilled workers, cut pay to more highly paid workers, take action to increase worker productivity (from reorganizing production to increasing training), increase prices to consumers, or simply accept a smaller profit margin. Workers may also respond to the higher wage by working harder on the job. But, probably the most important channel of adjustment is through reductions in labor turnover, which yield significant cost savings to employers.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 013-02.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Washington min. wage has gone up each of the last two years and is now among the nation's highest at $9.32. 75% of my employees are minimum wage earners and yet I had to hire more people last year due to increased business and a high rate of staff turnover from 2012. Wages and payroll tax liabilities (thanks to the Fica tax cuts expiring) went up dramatically, luckily gross revenue increased, but net profits were down.

Lots of intermingling factors as you suggest, but in the end, jobs are still based on demand.

Why aren't you paying your employees a living wage? Aren't you committed to social justice?

[kalm]

Absolutely agree to the variety of factors notion but there are numerous studies including this one that suggest employment numbers just don't tend to change with minimum wage increases:



http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 013-02.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Washington min. wage has gone up each of the last two years and is now among the nation's highest at $9.32. 75% of my employees are minimum wage earners and yet I had to hire more people last year due to increased business and a high rate of staff turnover from 2012. Wages and payroll tax liabilities (thanks to the Fica tax cuts expiring) went up dramatically, luckily gross revenue increased, but net profits were down.

Lots of intermingling factors as you suggest, but in the end, jobs are still based on demand.

Why aren't you paying your employees a living wage? Aren't you committed to social justice?

They are part-time seasonal college kids or retirees looking for a little extra cash. So no, I'm not concerned about them. It's my full time people I'd like to pay more and min. wage increases prohibit that.

Also...I can walk and chew gum.

[BDKJMU]

Does that include bennies/taxes/insurance, etc?

That $3 may be more like $4-5 after the above is added in.

That's still nothing.

It is if you times it by say 10-20 employees an hr times 16 hrs a day times x 7 days a week x 52 weeks....

[BDKJMU]

Teenagers working their 1st job(s), living at home with mommy & daddy, don't need to be starting off at a low/no skill job making $10 an hr...

[DSUrocks07]

Teenagers working their 1st job(s), living at home with mommy & daddy, don't need to be starting off at a low/no skill job making $10 an hr...

This.

Prepare for having 16-24 unemployment go through the roof in CT

Well 16-26 now because now they can stay on their parents insurance until then.

[kalm]

Teenagers working their 1st job(s), living at home with mommy & daddy, don't need to be starting off at a low/no skill job making $10 an hr...

This.

Prepare for having 16-24 unemployment go through the roof in CT

Well 16-26 now because now they can stay on their parents insurance until then.

I agree with BDK as well, but unless CT has a bunch of non-entry level, non-service sector jobs paying minimum wage, unemployment won't go down.

[OL FU]

Like a lot of "social" Sciences, there aren't many definites in economics but one that no one disputes is the law of supply and demand which would, in this case, say that if wages go up, employment goes down. Now, the law also says all other factors being equal which we know is rarely the case. So there is no doubt that artificially raising wages will impact employment the extent of which will be dependant on all of those other factors. It would be interesting to compare the economy at the time of past minimum wage increases to the one we have today. Considering that the jobs we are creating are significantly part time low wage jobs, it is a little bit concerning this time around.

Absolutely agree to the variety of factors notion but there are numerous studies including this one that suggest employment numbers just don't tend to change with minimum wage increases:

Economists have conducted hundreds of studies of the employment impact of the minimum wage. Summarizing those studies is a daunting task, but two recent meta-studies analyzing the research conducted since the early 1990s concludes that the minimum wage has little or no discernible effect on the employment prospects of low-wage workers.
The most likely reason for this outcome is that the cost shock of the minimum wage is small relative to most firms' overall costs and only modest relative to the wages paid to low-wage workers. In the traditional discussion of the minimum wage, economists have focused on how these costs affect employment outcomes, but employers have many other channels of adjustment. Employers can reduce hours, non-wage benefits, or training. Employers can also shift the composition toward
CEPR Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?  23
higher skilled workers, cut pay to more highly paid workers, take action to increase worker productivity (from reorganizing production to increasing training), increase prices to consumers, or simply accept a smaller profit margin. Workers may also respond to the higher wage by working harder on the job. But, probably the most important channel of adjustment is through reductions in labor turnover, which yield significant cost savings to employers.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 013-02.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Washington min. wage has gone up each of the last two years and is now among the nation's highest at $9.32. 75% of my employees are minimum wage earners and yet I had to hire more people last year due to increased business and a high rate of staff turnover from 2012. Wages and payroll tax liabilities (thanks to the Fica tax cuts expiring) went up dramatically, luckily gross revenue increased, but net profits were down.

Lots of intermingling factors as you suggest, but in the end, jobs are still based on demand.

No problem with any of that and agree and understand that the impact generally has been negligible. and it might be this time, but I am still concerned that this economy might be different.

[OL FU]

I have no idea whether the three bucks is a big deal or not. I consider my self lucky to work for a company where this would have no impact on how much we pay people. But all impacted business are not MacDonalds which I would imagine the most profitable of the fast food businesses. Don't know if it still matters but MacD's is probably the least impacted business that this involved.

Now, I am not opposed. I believe we need a minimum wage. But at best it is a bandaid on the issues we have today.

When a FORBES magazine says it doesn't matter
And the editor in Chief is Steve Forbes Conservative Political figure himself

The point is
1) Hiring is a LAST RESORT in any business (period)
2) If the difference between $8 and $12 dollars matters - you're NOT REALLY in a position to HIRE
3) McDonalds already proves it doesn't matter for large models
4) Smaller models if they can't afford to pay it = they're already in trouble and just don;t know it

I understand
number 1 is a certainty.
Number isn't a blanket statement you can make across the board, sorry
Number three, as I said Macdonald's isn't really a large model. Certainly the corporation is but the individual franchise is not. However, what Macdonald's is, is the one of the most profitable business in that model. so yes, it can afford it better. Now raising the minimum wage might actually force Burger King, etc to become as good as MacDonalds in other areas, but that really isn't the point
4. I think a lot of smaller models know they are in trouble. So shit let's just pass a law and tell them to close

I get lost in the other arguments, but I will still stick to my main argument (while I am not really opposed to an increase), the benefits that everyone is touting for raising the minimum wage really doesn't accomplish what people say it does for the reasons I mentioned above. It is an argument that politicians make because it is an easy one to articulate, not because it actually brings that much benefit.