City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

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City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by BDKJMU »

"City vs. Country: How Where We Live Deepens the Nation's Political Divide

....There have always been differences between rural and urban America, but they have grown vast and deep, and now are an underappreciated factor in dividing the U.S. political system, say politicians and academicians.

Polling, consumer data and demographic profiles paint a picture of two Americas—not just with differing proclivities but different life experiences. People in cities are more likely to be tethered to a smartphone, buy a foreign-made car and read a fashion magazine. Those in small towns are more likely to go to church, own a gun, support the military and value community ties.

In many ways, the split between red Republican regions and blue Democratic ones—and their opposing views about the role of government—is an extension of the cultural divide between rural Americans and those living in cities and suburbs.....
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...."The difference in this country is not red versus blue," said Neil Levesque, director of the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College. "It's urban versus rural."......

.....The U.S. divide wasn't always this stark. For decades, rural America was part of the Democratic base, and as recently as 1993, just over half of rural Americans were represented by a House Democrat, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis. Conservative Democrats often represented rural districts, including Ms. Hartzler's predecessor, Ike Skelton, who held the seat for 34 years before she ousted him in 2010.

That parity eventually gave way to GOP dominance. In 2013, 77% of rural Americans were represented by a House Republican. But in urban areas—which by the government's definition includes both cities and suburbs—slightly less than half of residents were represented by congressional Republicans, despite the GOP's 30-seat majority in the House.

The urban-rural divide has also grown in presidential contests. In 1992, Democrat Bill Clinton beat Republican George Bush in the 50 densest counties—the most urban in the country—by 25 percentage points. By 2012, Democrat Barack Obama's advantage in those urban counties had shot up to 38 points, according to a Journal analysis of Census and election data.

Today, almost all big cities, even those in red states such as Missouri, Indiana and Texas, favor Democrats for president.

The shift in rural areas has been even more dramatic. In 1992, Mr. Bush won the 50 least-dense counties—the most rural in the country—by 18 points. In 2012, Mr. Romney's advantage there had roughly tripled, to 53 points.

David Wasserman, who analyzes politics at the Cook Political Report, measures the change by examining how Democratic presidential candidates performed in counties with a Whole Foods WFM +1.40% —the upscale grocery store that stocks organic goods—and in counties with a Cracker Barrel, the homestyle restaurant featuring chicken n' dumplings.

In 1992, Bill Clinton won 60% of the Whole Foods counties and 40% of the Cracker Barrel counties, a 20-point difference. That gap that has widened every year since, and in 2012, Mr. Obama won 77% of Whole Foods counties and 29% of Cracker Barrel Counties, a 48-point difference.

"Politics hangs on culture and lifestyle more than policy," Mr. Wasserman said.

These divisions emerged in the 1960s with the Civil Rights movement and the rise of such social issues as abortion and school prayer, which distanced culturally conservative rural voters from the Democratic Party.

Religion remains a dividing line. Urban dwellers are more than three times as likely as rural residents to say religion is "not that important to me," according to a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll. Nearly 60% of rural residents say homosexual behavior is a sin compared with 40% of city residents, a Pew Research Center poll found last year.

Economic forces have advanced the split. Companies carefully choose where to locate new stores and who to target with advertising, assisted by a trove of marketing data. The result is rural Americans have a different set of consumer choices than urban residents.

For example, rural residents are 47% more likely to shop at a Dollar General DG +0.78% store than is an average American, according to surveys by the research firm Experian Marketing Services.

City dwellers are 41% more likely to buy something at an Apple store, 74% at a J. Crew and 69% at Williams-Sonoma, according to Experian.....

...Rural economies have faltered as automated farming and corporate ventures subsumed many family farms. Cutbacks in manufacturing have cost jobs, and fewer jobs mean fewer opportunities for young people, driving away those with more skills and education.

Without new arrivals, these aging regions have grown more insulated from cultural change—whether the use of smartphones or the acceptance of same-sex marriage.

"We're the gun-toting, God-loving folks they claim us to be," said Jackson Tough, age 45, the executive director of the El Dorado Springs Chamber of Commerce. He owns more than 20 guns for hunting and target shooting.....
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by BDKJMU »

Some of you may say duh, but as the article points out, it wasn't always this way (nearly to the degree it is now). This divide has seen a pretty dramatic increase in the last couple of decades. Interesting, anyway.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by BlueHen86 »

None of this is important. Everybody knows that only thing that matters is the ability to read a teleprompter.
It's not urban versus rural, it's about sound bites.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by VictorG »

BDKJMU wrote:Some of you may say duh, but as the article points out, it wasn't always this way (nearly to the degree it is now). This divide has seen a pretty dramatic increase in the last couple of decades. Interesting, anyway.
Actually years ago I think the rural was more democratic because there were more and more farmers depending upon the farm subsidies. Most of those small farmers are now gone....
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Ivytalk »

VictorG wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Some of you may say duh, but as the article points out, it wasn't always this way (nearly to the degree it is now). This divide has seen a pretty dramatic increase in the last couple of decades. Interesting, anyway.
Actually years ago I think the rural was more democratic because there were more and more farmers depending upon the farm subsidies. Most of those small farmers are now gone....
3-2-1 to klam blaming corporate agriculture.... :coffee:
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Duh
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Baldy »

Ivytalk wrote:
VictorG wrote:
Actually years ago I think the rural was more democratic because there were more and more farmers depending upon the farm subsidies. Most of those small farmers are now gone....
3-2-1 to klam blaming corporate agriculture.... :coffee:
ADM is the debil. :tothehand:
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
VictorG wrote:
Actually years ago I think the rural was more democratic because there were more and more farmers depending upon the farm subsidies. Most of those small farmers are now gone....
3-2-1 to klam blaming corporate agriculture.... :coffee:
Not at all Ivyturd. Look at Monsanto's campaign contributions so far this year and a good chunk of them go to Dems. That's how corporatism works, in many instances it doesn't really matter who's in power, as long as you have their ear. :dunce:

Living on the edge of the hinterlands and having family that live and work smack dab in the middle of rural conk-controlled E. WA, I tend to agree that it's cultural. People who live in these small towns and in the country are xenophobic and trying to hold on to their cultural isolation as best they can. They resent change and embrace homogeneity. However it's getting more difficult in the information age and with expats returning home from the big city with positive tales of cultural diversity and grandeur. My Seattle SiL once bought a black barbie (intentionally) for her rural living niece and that kid eventually grew up to go to college and even occasionally co-mingle with negroes. :o :lol:

As I've probably mentioned before, I DO get a kick out of seeing massive campaign signs in wheat fields supporting candidates of the party of limited government…as they live on a county road in the middle of nowhere with New Deal electricity from Grand Coulee Dam, subsidized crop insurance, CRP acreage, government granted and/or built railways and highways to truck their goods to the now navigable Snake and Columbia Rivers - thanks again to other New Deal reclamation projects.

Conks. :lol:
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: 3-2-1 to klam blaming corporate agriculture.... :coffee:
ADM is the debil. :tothehand:
Don't hate on successful businesses operating in the free market. :tothehand:
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The Archer Daniels Midland Corporation (ADM) has been the most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history. ADM and its chairman Dwayne Andreas have lavishly fertilized both political parties with millions of dollars in handouts and in return have reaped billion-dollar windfalls from taxpayers and consumers. Thanks to federal protection of the domestic sugar industry, ethanol subsidies, subsidized grain exports, and various other programs, ADM has cost the American economy billions of dollars since 1980 and has indirectly cost Americans tens of billions of dollars in higher prices and higher taxes over that same period. At least 43 percent of ADM's annual profits are from products heavily subsidized or protected by the American government. Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM's corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its ethanol operation costs taxpayers $30

One of the most politically charged debates in Washington revolves around business subsidies known as "corporate welfare." A number of policy organizations have published studies examining the corporate welfare phenomenon: what qualifies as corporate welfare, how much it costs taxpayers, and how much it damages the economy. This study examines the dynamics of corporate welfare somewhat differently by investigating ADM as a classic case study of how those subsidies are obtained, how the welfare state encourages such "rent seeking," and how such practices fundamentally corrupt the political life of a nation. Congress's expressed desire to foster a free marketplace cannot be taken seriously until ADM's corporate hand is removed from the federal till.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote:Some of you may say duh, but as the article points out, it wasn't always this way (nearly to the degree it is now). This divide has seen a pretty dramatic increase in the last couple of decades. Interesting, anyway.
Young folk leaving the rural areas is the duh part that explains dramatic increase, imo..
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by kalm »

Oh... And here ya go Ivy...viva la free market, rural, farmers!
Ironically, despite their reliance on big government handouts, pork and dairy producers desperately fight any proposed rules governing their conduct, whether they relate to animal welfare, environmental protections, food safety or other issues that affect our society.

The meat and dairy industries may like to proclaim a libertarian mantra when it comes to regulation, but when they suffer from lack of demand, their clamor for socialism is stark. The industries consistently come to Congress with outstretched arms and cupped palms, seeking to defy the normal laws of economics that other businesses must navigate.

And make no mistake about it, this is a tasty deal for farm interests. When the auto industry got its federal bailout, serious strings were attached, like improving fuel efficiency and eliminating corporate jet budgets. But when the government subsidizes pork and dairy producers, for some reason, they don’t have to pay taxpayers back, or give anything in return.

They just get a completely free lunch—pizza, most likely.
http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/18/o ... l-handouts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:Oh... And here ya go Ivy...viva la free market, rural, farmers!
Ironically, despite their reliance on big government handouts, pork and dairy producers desperately fight any proposed rules governing their conduct, whether they relate to animal welfare, environmental protections, food safety or other issues that affect our society.

The meat and dairy industries may like to proclaim a libertarian mantra when it comes to regulation, but when they suffer from lack of demand, their clamor for socialism is stark. The industries consistently come to Congress with outstretched arms and cupped palms, seeking to defy the normal laws of economics that other businesses must navigate.

And make no mistake about it, this is a tasty deal for farm interests. When the auto industry got its federal bailout, serious strings were attached, like improving fuel efficiency and eliminating corporate jet budgets. But when the government subsidizes pork and dairy producers, for some reason, they don’t have to pay taxpayers back, or give anything in return.

They just get a completely free lunch—pizza, most likely.
http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/18/o ... l-handouts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:Oh... And here ya go Ivy...viva la free market, rural, farmers!



http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/18/o ... l-handouts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Man, beardless klam, you woke up with a rod up your ass. Did D1B hijack your password? :ohno:
1). I had a great workout this morning.

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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by JohnStOnge »

One thing that kind of means, to me, that kind of a false impression is might be being created is the Census Bureau definition of "urban." I looked it up and it looks to me like they classify a town of 2,500 or more people as "urban."

Here's the definition:

http://www.census.gov/population/censusdata/urdef.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So if they're going by the Census Bureau definition of "urban" they're including a lot of people in the "urban" category that most people wouldn't think of as living in urban area. At least that's how I'm thinking based on reading the first part of that definition. I didn't read the whole thing so maybe there is something farther down that changes things.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by CAA Flagship »

"Cracker Barrel counties" :rofl:
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

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[David Wasserman, who analyzes politics at the Cook Political Report, measures the change by examining how Democratic presidential candidates performed in counties with a Whole Foods WFM +1.40% —the upscale grocery store that stocks organic goods—and in counties with a Cracker Barrel, the homestyle restaurant featuring chicken n' dumplings.

In 1992, Bill Clinton won 60% of the Whole Foods counties and 40% of the Cracker Barrel counties, a 20-point difference. That gap that has widened every year since, and in 2012, Mr. Obama won 77% of Whole Foods counties and 29% of Cracker Barrel Counties, a 48-point difference.[/quote]

Wonder how he handled counties (or, in Louisiana, Parishes) that have both. Like Baton Rouge has 3 Cracker Barrel's and 2 Whole Foods stores.

Otherwise, this is the way I look at it:

Whole Foods: You're getting suckered and you should know better. You're paying higher price for, at best, the same quality and, at worst, poorer quality.

Cracker Barrel: Yes if you eat it all the time you're getting a lot of fat and such. But you're getting a whole lot for your money. In fact if there is a problem it's that you can't eat everything they give you when you buy a meal. It's too much. And some of the stuff you can get tastes really good.

Bottom line: Going to Cracker Barrel implies a better grasp of reality and a better decision making process than going to Whole Foods does.

And yes I've been to Whole Foods. In fact I remember once when I was in the DC area I wanted to buy some stuff including peanut butter and honey and there was a Whole Foods in walking distance so I went. All the peanut butter they had was really expensive and gross looking. The honey looked OK but, again, it was way over priced. And I kind of looked around at other stuff. It was pretty much a "You've got to be KIDDING me" response to the thought of people who make a point of shopping there. I suspect a lot of it is that phenomenon by which people will pay way more than what stuff is worth because they think it makes them look cool and sophisticated.

Kind of like buying Starbucks Coffee instead of just going to a Dunkn Donuts so you can walk around with the Starbucks cup in your hand and everyone will think you've got it going on.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Comparing a restaurant to a grocery store is apples to oranges.

You can cook your own food bought from Whole Foods. Can still be more expensive, depending on what you're making... especially just for one meal.

But, have someone eat Cracker Barrel for a week vs. meals cooked themselves from Whole Foods groceries... and Whole Foods will win out.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Chizzang »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Wonder how he handled counties (or, in Louisiana, Parishes) that have both. Like Baton Rouge has 3 Cracker Barrel's and 2 Whole Foods stores.

Otherwise, this is the way I look at it:

Whole Foods: You're getting suckered and you should know better. You're paying higher price for, at best, the same quality and, at worst, poorer quality.

Cracker Barrel: Yes if you eat it all the time you're getting a lot of fat and such. But you're getting a whole lot for your money. In fact if there is a problem it's that you can't eat everything they give you when you buy a meal. It's too much. And some of the stuff you can get tastes really good.

Bottom line: Going to Cracker Barrel implies a better grasp of reality and a better decision making process than going to Whole Foods does.

And yes I've been to Whole Foods. In fact I remember once when I was in the DC area I wanted to buy some stuff including peanut butter and honey and there was a Whole Foods in walking distance so I went. All the peanut butter they had was really expensive and gross looking. The honey looked OK but, again, it was way over priced. And I kind of looked around at other stuff. It was pretty much a "You've got to be KIDDING me" response to the thought of people who make a point of shopping there. I suspect a lot of it is that phenomenon by which people will pay way more than what stuff is worth because they think it makes them look cool and sophisticated.

Kind of like buying Starbucks Coffee instead of just going to a Dunkn Donuts so you can walk around with the Starbucks cup in your hand and everyone will think you've got it going on.
For what has been an interesting thread...
john you come in with what is possibly the dumbest "thing" I've ever read
In fact I feel dumber for having actually read it

Cracker Barrel vs. Whole Foods :rofl: is like comparing a Jiffy Lube to an Auto Dealership
It's just a dumb comparison
Sure you can filter out their individual demographic to an extent but debating the virtues of one vs. the other is truly like comparing Jiffy Lube to an Auto Motive Dealership

I can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods
(and Whole grain bread and Chocolate Cake and soda pop)
It's called a grocery store and they sell almost everything / The last time I ate at a cracker Barrel I felt sick for 4 hours because my body isn't used to processing 6 ounces of grease in one sitting... The "smartest" thing I ever did was NEVER go back there again

:shock: Cracker Barrel is a late onset diabetes heart condition all in one roadside stop / and you're goiong to base peoples intelligence on their willingness to eat a pile of greasy crap..?

Update:
And Nobody "thinks you've got it going on" with a Starbucks in your hand, they think you wanted coffee and there is a Starbucks on every corner... Lets not confuse convenience with cool (okay)


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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by JohnStOnge »

Cracker Barrel vs. Whole Foods :rofl: is like comparing a Jiffy Lube to an Auto Dealership
It's just a dumb comparison...

I can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods
The "comparison" involving Cracker Barrel and Whole Foods was proposed by the person cited in the article. He was proposing them as "indicators" of some sort. "indicators" having to do with the nature of people in the area as reflected in how they vote.

And it's not that you can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods. It's how much you're going to pay for them vs. how much you're going to pay for them elsewhere. You might find some items that aren't too much more expensive. You might even find some at times that are less expensive.

But, on balance and by far, you're going to spend more shopping there than you're going to spend at an ordinary supermarket and especially if you do something like shop at a Wal Mart Superstore grocery section.

I don't think there is any doubt that if one spent a little time one could work out some demographics of people who shop at Whole Foods. Shopping there does, on average, say something about people. To suggest that it does not is being obtuse.

There is probably less "predictability" about people who eat from time to time at Cracker Barrel. But there is probably still some. In fact, I think it's safe to say that it's less likely that people who shop regularly at Whole Foods will eat at Cracker Barrel when a Cracker Barrel is available than other members of the general population will.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by JohnStOnge »

Comparing a restaurant to a grocery store is apples to oranges.

You can cook your own food bought from Whole Foods. Can still be more expensive, depending on what you're making... especially just for one meal.

But, have someone eat Cracker Barrel for a week vs. meals cooked themselves from Whole Foods groceries... and Whole Foods will win out.
To me what you're talking about is buying food at a grocery store and cooking it yourself vs. eating at a restaurant. And of course buying food and cooking it yourself is cheaper.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making a decision to frequent a certain type of business and the decision process that goes into the particular vendor you select given you're going to frequent that type of business.

In one case person selects a vendor because they think there are health benefit to its products that aren't really known to exist and, yes, because they think it makes them look smart to do it even though they know it's going to cost them substantially more to use that vendor. They're willing to pay a lot more for a chicken there than they would at an ordinary grocery store, for instance, because they think it's healthier for them to do that when it's not. They're interested in appearances.

In the other case a person selects a vendor because they just like the products and, as compared to what they would get at other vendors of the same type offering a similar products, they get a lot of it for their money. And they're not trying to convince themselves or anybody else of how smart they are. They're not interested in appearances.
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by JohnStOnge »

Whole Foods Shopper

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Cracker Barrel Customer

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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Cracker Barrel vs. Whole Foods :rofl: is like comparing a Jiffy Lube to an Auto Dealership
It's just a dumb comparison...

I can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods
The "comparison" involving Cracker Barrel and Whole Foods was proposed by the person cited in the article. He was proposing them as "indicators" of some sort. "indicators" having to do with the nature of people in the area as reflected in how they vote.

And it's not that you can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods. It's how much you're going to pay for them vs. how much you're going to pay for them elsewhere. You might find some items that aren't too much more expensive. You might even find some at times that are less expensive.

But, on balance and by far, you're going to spend more shopping there than you're going to spend at an ordinary supermarket and especially if you do something like shop at a Wal Mart Superstore grocery section.

I don't think there is any doubt that if one spent a little time one could work out some demographics of people who shop at Whole Foods. Shopping there does, on average, say something about people. To suggest that it does not is being obtuse.

There is probably less "predictability" about people who eat from time to time at Cracker Barrel. But there is probably still some. In fact, I think it's safe to say that it's less likely that people who shop regularly at Whole Foods will eat at Cracker Barrel when a Cracker Barrel is available than other members of the general population will.
You mean people actually buy things like salmon and rib roast at Walmart? :shock: :puke:

John, you apparently struggle with the notion of quality and taste. I've only been to the Whole Foods in Redmond while buying some tailgating food for the Husky game a couple of years ago. It was super cool with tons of interesting grab and go and deli items. It also seemed to have a large amount of unique and harder to find stuff. And it all seemed high quality. But yes, it was expensive and not the kind of place where you'd want to buy ordinary things. For example, I bought some disinfectant wipes that were $5 or $6. But IIRC they WERE made from unicorn tears and fair trade organic cotton. Try buying THAT at Walmart.

Whole foods, anti-globalism, a great place to get high quality products, good for the environment, good for America. :mrgreen:
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
The "comparison" involving Cracker Barrel and Whole Foods was proposed by the person cited in the article. He was proposing them as "indicators" of some sort. "indicators" having to do with the nature of people in the area as reflected in how they vote.

And it's not that you can buy cupcakes and Salmon and Rib Roast and Oranges at Whole Foods. It's how much you're going to pay for them vs. how much you're going to pay for them elsewhere. You might find some items that aren't too much more expensive. You might even find some at times that are less expensive.

But, on balance and by far, you're going to spend more shopping there than you're going to spend at an ordinary supermarket and especially if you do something like shop at a Wal Mart Superstore grocery section.

I don't think there is any doubt that if one spent a little time one could work out some demographics of people who shop at Whole Foods. Shopping there does, on average, say something about people. To suggest that it does not is being obtuse.

There is probably less "predictability" about people who eat from time to time at Cracker Barrel. But there is probably still some. In fact, I think it's safe to say that it's less likely that people who shop regularly at Whole Foods will eat at Cracker Barrel when a Cracker Barrel is available than other members of the general population will.
You mean people actually buy things like salmon and rib roast at Walmart? :shock: :puke:

John, you apparently struggle with the notion of quality and taste. I've only been to the Whole Foods in Redmond while buying some tailgating food for the Husky game a couple of years ago. It was super cool with tons of interesting grab and go and deli items. It also seemed to have a large amount of unique and harder to find stuff. And it all seemed high quality. But yes, it was expensive and not the kind of place where you'd want to buy ordinary things. For example, I bought some disinfectant wipes that were $5 or $6. But IIRC they WERE made from unicorn tears and fair trade organic cotton. Try buying THAT at Walmart.

Whole foods, anti-globalism, a great place to get high quality products, good for the environment, good for America. :mrgreen:
Okay
Pardon my previous rant - I see now - it was strictly a demographics illustration
Even though John was trying to use it as an "Intelligence meter"

and those are NOT the same thing
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by Chizzang »

Cracker Barrel Customer
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Whole Foods customer
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Last edited by Chizzang on Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
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Re: City vs. Country: Political Divide Deepens

Post by ∞∞∞ »

I gladly pay more for the quality I find at Wegmans. That is all.
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