Crimea votes to be part of Russia

[YoUDeeMan]

http://news.msn.com/world/crimeans-vote ... oin-russia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Just two weeks after Russian troops seized their peninsula, Crimeans voted Sunday to leave Ukraine and join Russia, overwhelmingly approving a referendum that sought to unite the strategically important Black Sea region with the country it was part of for more than two centuries."

"Elections have consequences"...unless they clash with rich, Western people's business interests.

[BDKJMU]

Yep, after a population of an area is forcibly removed and resettled with your own people, elections have consequences...

[BDKJMU]

Ukraine asked US for arms, Obama offered MREs...

After all, its only been a few years since the US gave funds to speed up the destruction of Ukrainian arms including "...more than 400,000 small arms, 1,000 anti-aircraft missiles, and more than 15,000 tons of ammunition...."
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreen ... fers-mres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The US shouldn't get involved militarily, but I don't see anything wrong with selling Ukraine arms...Anything to piss off the Russians..

[BDKJMU]

Obama coming down hard with sanctions. Sanctions levied on 11 Ukranian & Russian individuals...

11 down, 144 million to go....

[dbackjon]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

[danefan]

Ron Paul makes a good point:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/6544163/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

[VictorG]

Obama coming down hard with sanctions. Sanctions levied on 11 Ukranian & Russian individuals...

11 down, 144 million to go....

IMO this is economic warfare. This is how most non-shooting wars will be fought from here on out.

These people are "puddings" inner circle and it will hurt them. I'm betting many are corrupt and when they start whining to "pudding" and the Russian public, the level of their corruption will become apparent. We'll see!

The EU sanctioned 22 people....


By the way, I was listing to another site which reported over 50,000 people in MOSCOW demonstrated AGAINST what Russia was doing......interesting.....

[HI54UNI]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

I'd call Merkel and Hollande and tell them it's in their backyard and they can deal with it. Then I would ask them if they want to contract for some natural gas because they will need it next winter when Putin shuts off the supply.

[BDKJMU]

Ron Paul makes a good point:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/6544163/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

Paul is ignoring the fact that the bulk of Crimea's population was forcibly removed to Siberia & resettled with Russians. Thats not self determination. No fair vote could have taken place because of that, not because of Russian troops in Crimea..

[BDKJMU]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

I wouldn't get involved militarily, but I would:
-sell Ukraine arms
-toughest economic sanctions possible, including freezing of assests, trade embargo, not sanctioning 11 people..

[TheDancinMonarch]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

I wouldn't do anything because I can't do anything. But the things that I would do, economic sanctions, freezing assets and such, I would do as quietly as possible.

Of course they talk of freezing assets for weeks before actually doing it so that only an idiot would leave their assets where they could become frozen.

[BDKJMU]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

I'd call Merkel and Hollande and tell them it's in their backyard and they can deal with it. Then I would ask them if they want to contract for some natural gas because they will need it next winter when Putin shuts off the supply.

Good point. We got plenty of natty gas. Frack baby frack!

[BDKJMU]

Russian Deputy PM Laughs at Obama’s Sanctions
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... sanctions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

Welp, definitely have to applaud Ron Paul and give the finger to Obama on this.

Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine's government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on selected Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let's hope governments will follow their lead.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/6544163/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YoUDeeMan]

Yep, after a population of an area is forcibly removed and resettled with your own people, elections have consequences...

Good thinking.

Since Europeans killed off a lot of the Native Americans, I guess we'll have to let the remaining ones decide the upcoming U.S. elections in 2014 and 2016.

And screw those African American voters...they are simply imported folks dancing on Indian graves.

But, since you were probably serious, my bet is that the remaining local Tartar sauce folks in Crimea would probably vote to separate from the Ukraine as well...seeing as how they used to be a part of Turkey, no?

Besides, Obama already said we can't have people redrawing borders in democratic countries, now, anyway, so those Tartars are screwed.

BTW, everybody please quietly ignore Scotland while we're talking about this voting separation thinghy, right?

[AZGrizFan]

Welp, definitely have to applaud Ron Paul and give the finger to Obama on this.

Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine's government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on selected Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let's hope governments will follow their lead.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/6544163/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Awwww....our baby is growing up right before our eyes....

[CID1990]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

nothing.

The key is to not get into this position to begin with. Obama is driven by events. The administration is purely reactionary, and has absolutely no comprehension of what motivates other cultures and heads of state. The misunderstood culture this month happens to be Russia.

[Chizzang]

Re: the Election - there was no choice given to remain with Ukraine.


So what would you geniuses do if you were POTUS? Invade? Nuke Moscow? Do nothing like Bush did when Russia invaded Georgia?

nothing.

The key is to not get into this position to begin with. Obama is driven by events. The administration is purely reactionary, and has absolutely no comprehension of what motivates other cultures and heads of state. The misunderstood culture this month happens to be Russia.

We haven't exactly been endowed with deep thinkers at the helm the last 10 years...
Obama's biggest problem seems to be
he does not listen to those around him that actually DO KNOW something

[YoUDeeMan]

nothing.

The key is to not get into this position to begin with. Obama is driven by events. The administration is purely reactionary, and has absolutely no comprehension of what motivates other cultures and heads of state. The misunderstood culture this month happens to be Russia.

We haven't exactly been endowed with deep thinkers at the helm the last 10 years...
Obama's biggest problem seems to be
he does not listen to those around him that actually DO KNOW something

That leaves no one. Obama has intentionally surrounded himself with people who think like him.

[CID1990]

nothing.

The key is to not get into this position to begin with. Obama is driven by events. The administration is purely reactionary, and has absolutely no comprehension of what motivates other cultures and heads of state. The misunderstood culture this month happens to be Russia.

We haven't exactly been endowed with deep thinkers at the helm the last 10 years...
Obama's biggest problem seems to be
he does not listen to those around him that actually DO KNOW something

Presidents who do listen to their informed advisors are usually marked down as the good ones, that is true.

To me, thats why the experience argument was so valid with Obama- he has never had to exist in a system that requires collaboration. The entire body of his experience over his entire adulthood has been one of independence. Couple that with the fact that he is obviously self assured of his own intellectual superiority and you have the recipe fir someone who not only will not listen to sage advice, but won't bother to surround himself with sage advisors in the first place.

[bluehenbillk]

If the residents of Maine voted that they wanted to join Canada & Ottawa decided to recognize them as a province, what would your reaction be?

[ASUMountaineer]

If the residents of Maine voted that they wanted to join Canada & Ottawa decided to recognize them as a province, what would your reaction be?

Have fun! I've never been to Maine, though I'd like to go at some point. It would have no bearing on me.

[kalm]

Evidently Exxon Mobile has a huge deal in Russia with their countries largest oil company. Part of the deal involves a joint effort in drilling in the Black Sea. So far, Exxon has said it is neutral on the crisis. I wonder how much political pressure they're applying behind the scenes...

[93henfan]

Obama coming down hard with sanctions. Sanctions levied on 11 Ukranian & Russian individuals...

11 down, 144 million to go....

Look man. Half my ammo comes from Ukraine and Russia. I'm OK with staying out of this.

Keep Russian ammo cheap, baby!

[BDKJMU]

Obama coming down hard with sanctions. Sanctions levied on 11 Ukranian & Russian individuals...

11 down, 144 million to go....

Look man. Half my ammo comes from Ukraine and Russia. I'm OK with staying out of this.

Keep Russian ammo cheap, baby!

Is Russian ammo that high quality? I'm sure if something happens I'm sure somebody else would pick up the slack for cheap foreign ammo.