Who Creates Jobs?

[JohnStOnge]

Kalm is like a cat playing with a dead mouse carcass.

Only to people who agree with him to start with.

You know that thing where we have this unsustainable deficit problem? Most of that deficit is due to spending on things that fall into the general category of government being involved in trying to ensure that individuals get what they need.

Not that that's the main difference to be against it for me. For me it's the fact that this country is supposed to be about Liberty and being forced by government to take care of other people who can't or won't take care of themselves isn't Liberty.

[CID1990]

And obviously you don't. Kids go hungry. People go hungry. Food Stamps allows CITIZENS to eat. Period.

Let's be very clear...NO ONE goes hungry in this country unless they have a mental deficiency and refuse help. And NO ONE goes without a roof over their heads unless they have a mental deficiency and refuse help. And now, NO ONE goes without a phone, unless they have a mental deficiency and refuse the handout.

Understanding those points is critical to understanding that all that is left for people to do is to figure out a way to provide bling and other crap for themselves (and their babies, usually without the father being around - a choice).

The American poor are by no means poor. They are envious. And the poorest of the poor are not smart enough to figure out what they want to do, or they are smart enough to have figured out that they don't need to do jack sh!t in order to live off someone else's work.

dback, your posts are loser material. You want someone else to pay for the privilege of your existence and take care of you and the other unintelligent, unmotivated jokers who play the victim role. You easily get distracted with narrow minded, selfish goals while complaining that someone else should care about you and your plight du jour.

Don't like what trickles down to you? Work harder and smarter and find something that people would want to pay you for. CREATE demand. People in this country have enough money and trinkets...make your trinket more appealing than something else and the money will flow your way. Otherwise, just keep looking at the azz in front of you, because the view ain't going to change.

Then again, you would like that view.

Actually the thread ended right here.

Everything since is Jon/D: BRAWK! Starving children!

And a little Klam snark and hyperbole thrown in for good measure

[AZGrizFan]

Kalm is like a cat playing with a dead mouse carcass.

Conks.

It's no wonder this country is fucked. If THAT beatdown of klammy is what you donks view as a "victory"....but don't worry, he got a participation ribbon.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW when I was a kid back in the 1960s and went to visit my maternal grandparents we stayed in a cypress house with a tin roof. There were holes in the floor in some places. Not big giant holes but places where there had been knots in the wood and such.

We crapped in a pot designed for that purpose or in an outdoor outhouse. We took our baths in a metal wash tub. We had to start off with cold water in the washtub then boil water and add that to get the water warm enough to bath in.

We drank raw milk in a big porcelain bowl in the refrigerator after being milked from the cows. They did have a refrigerator and a freezer. When it was time to eat breakfast we ate brown eggs gathered from the hens. When it was time to eat lunch and supper we ate something like a chicken my grandfather had killed and cleaned for the purpose.

And going to "spend" with my maternal grandparents generated some of the fondest memories of my life. I didn't look at it as a bad life at all. I guess a kid of today might as they'd miss all the electronic gadgets. But back then, not knowing any better, it was great being out in the country and living like that.

[AZGrizFan]

BTW when I was a kid back in the 1960s and went to visit my maternal grandparents we stayed in a cypress house with a tin roof. There were holes in the floor in some places. Not big giant holes but places where there had been knots in the wood and such.

We crapped in a pot designed for that purpose or in an outdoor outhouse. We took our baths in a metal wash tub. We had to start off with cold water in the washtub then boil water and add that to get the water warm enough to bath in.

We drank raw milk taken fright from the cows that would sit in a big porcelain bowl in the refrigerator. They did have a refrigerator and a freezer. When it was time to eat breakfast we ate brown eggs gathered from the hens. When it was time to eat lunch and supper we ate something like a chicken my grandfather had killed and cleaned for the purpose.

And going to "spend" with my maternal grandparents generated some of the fondest memories of my life.

Raw milk
brown eggs
Outhouses

The horror. The horror.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4[/youtube]

[Skjellyfetti]

It's never going to be so simple as one thing creating jobs. There are hundreds of factors. The government does create jobs. Multi-national billion dollar companies do create jobs. The middle class does create jobs.

However, the economy is changing.

Huge corporations do create jobs that rely on the consumption of the middle class. But, these increasingly employ people overseason.

There are also huge corporations that employ next to no one. Facebook bought WhatsApp (which I had never heard of before they bought it) for $16 billion dollars... the company employs 55 fucking people. A few decades ago... a company worth that (adjusted for inflation) would be employing thousands of people.

The economy is changing and there is increasingly less room for less skilled, less educated workers. A relatively high unemployment rate is going to be the norm going forward, imo.

Saw this article today that reminded me of this. It'll just be getting worse.

And, a nice argument against raising the minimum wage, and eliminating the income and payroll taxes for you Conks as well.

Big changes are coming to the labor market that people and governments aren't prepared for, Bill Gates believes.

Speaking at Washington, D.C., economic think tank The American Enterprise Institute on Thursday, Gates said that within 20 years, a lot of jobs will go away, replaced by software automation ("bots" in tech slang, though Gates used the term "software substitution").

This is what he said:

"Software substitution, whether it's for drivers or waiters or nurses … it's progressing. ... Technology over time will reduce demand for jobs, particularly at the lower end of skill set. ... 20 years from now, labor demand for lots of skill sets will be substantially lower. I don’t think people have that in their mental model."

He's not the only one predicting this gloomy scenario for workers. In January, the Economist ran a big profile naming over a dozen jobs sure to be taken over by robots in the next 20 years, including telemarketers, accountants and retail workers.

Gates believes that the tax codes are going to need to change to encourage companies to hire employees, including, perhaps, eliminating income and payroll taxes altogether. He's also not a fan of raising the minimum wage, fearing that it will discourage employers from hiring workers in the very categories of jobs that are most threatened by automation.

He explained:

"When people say we should raise the minimum wage. I worry about what that does to job creation ... potentially damping demand in the part of the labor spectrum that I’m most worried about."

http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gat ... obs-2014-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YoUDeeMan]

Let's face it...in the end, there will be fewer jobs for everyone. You can deny this, but you'd be a fool.

Servicemen will be replaced by robots. Air force jets with pilots? A thing of the past. Commerical jets with pilots? No way. Maybe one person on board to oversee things. Stewardesses? Maybe hookers.

Trash trucks? Automated. Bank tellers? Goodbye.

Seriously, many jobs will be gone.

Is that a bad thing?

Well, that depends.

The world will need fewer jobs, but people will still need food. How do you balance that without becoming a nation (and planet) of freeloaders?

Seriously, the more free time people have on their hands, and the more everyone stresses, "equality", where are we going? Everyone can't have a 12 bedroom ocean front summer home.

[JohnStOnge]

The only solution is the final solution.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15YgdrhrCM8[/youtube]

[Chizzang]

The only solution is the final solution.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15YgdrhrCM8[/youtube]

And you keep pretending you're not a fundamentalist

[Pwns]

Doesn't surprise me at all to hear Bill Gates talk about automation and refer to it as "software substitution". Of course a huge shareholder of Microsoft would want you to believe that.

People are vastly overestimating computers. They don't realize how many man-hours goes into testing relatively uncomplicated computer program and that it is still impossible to eliminate all bugs. A program that would drive a car would be vastly more complex and companies like Google are struggling to make automation do some relatively simple things.

Don't listen to what the tech people say about this stuff. Listen to the automotive folks and manufacturing folks say about it. We're a very long ways from the kind of automation that the techies are talking about. And no matter what the techies say, computers can't think and never will be able to think.

[UNI88]

Doesn't surprise me at all to hear Bill Gates talk about automation and refer to it as "software substitution". Of course a huge shareholder of Microsoft would want you to believe that.

People are vastly overestimating computers. They don't realize how many man-hours goes into testing relatively uncomplicated computer program and that it is still impossible to eliminate all bugs. A program that would drive a car would be vastly more complex and companies like Google are struggling to make automation do some relatively simple things.

Don't listen to what the tech people say about this stuff. Listen to the automotive folks and manufacturing folks say about it. We're a very long ways from the kind of automation that the techies are talking about. And no matter what the techies say, computers can't think and never will be able to think.

I agree with what you're saying but think that automation will happen. It is complicated and the idea of a buggy automated garbage truck is a pretty scary thought. It's just going to take longer than some people think.

But Gates is right that the people on the low end are the most at risk. How far are we from having a touch screen at your table at a restaurant where you can see the menu plus text and YouTube video of the day's specials? You make your choices enter on the touch screen and the kitchen starts making them. Cooks and hosts keep their jobs, opportunities for waiters/waitresses are significantly reduced. Raising the minimum wage for certain jobs just makes automation more cost effective at a higher price point putting those jobs at risk.

[JohnStOnge]

The only solution is the final solution.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15YgdrhrCM8[/youtube]

And you keep pretending you're not a fundamentalist

What on EARTH does THAT have to do with fundamentalism?

[houndawg]

Doesn't surprise me at all to hear Bill Gates talk about automation and refer to it as "software substitution". Of course a huge shareholder of Microsoft would want you to believe that.

People are vastly overestimating computers. They don't realize how many man-hours goes into testing relatively uncomplicated computer program and that it is still impossible to eliminate all bugs. A program that would drive a car would be vastly more complex and companies like Google are struggling to make automation do some relatively simple things.

Don't listen to what the tech people say about this stuff. Listen to the automotive folks and manufacturing folks say about it. We're a very long ways from the kind of automation that the techies are talking about. And no matter what the techies say, computers can't think and never will be able to think.

I agree with what you're saying but think that automation will happen. It is complicated and the idea of a buggy automated garbage truck is a pretty scary thought. It's just going to take longer than some people think.

But Gates is right that the people on the low end are the most at risk. How far are we from having a touch screen at your table at a restaurant where you can see the menu plus text and YouTube video of the day's specials? You make your choices enter on the touch screen and the kitchen starts making them. Cooks and hosts keep their jobs, opportunities for waiters/waitresses are significantly reduced. Raising the minimum wage for certain jobs just makes automation more cost effective at a higher price point putting those jobs at risk.

What about the risk to the system of having vast numbers of people with no or very little skin in the game?

[Chizzang]

And you keep pretending you're not a fundamentalist

What on EARTH does THAT have to do with fundamentalism?

John it hurts my feelings when you play dumb like this...



Peter: 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."


"and my kingdom shall rise from the ruins of it.”

[UNI88]

I agree with what you're saying but think that automation will happen. It is complicated and the idea of a buggy automated garbage truck is a pretty scary thought. It's just going to take longer than some people think.

But Gates is right that the people on the low end are the most at risk. How far are we from having a touch screen at your table at a restaurant where you can see the menu plus text and YouTube video of the day's specials? You make your choices enter on the touch screen and the kitchen starts making them. Cooks and hosts keep their jobs, opportunities for waiters/waitresses are significantly reduced. Raising the minimum wage for certain jobs just makes automation more cost effective at a higher price point putting those jobs at risk.

What about the risk to the system of having vast numbers of people with no or very little skin in the game?

That's a good question. There is definitely a risk that the people at the low end of the labor pool are going to be disenfranchised and could react violently. Should the government's response be to try and force businesses to pay them more thereby increasing the likelihood that automation will become more attractive to a larger number of businesses? Or should it be to focus on training and education?

[kalm]

What about the risk to the system of having vast numbers of people with no or very little skin in the game?

That's a good question. There is definitely a risk that the people at the low end of the labor pool are going to be disenfranchised and could react violently. Should the government's response be to try and force businesses to pay them more thereby increasing the likelihood that automation will become more attractive to a larger number of businesses? Or should it be to focus on training and education?

Very thought provoking notion, 88.

[UNI88]

That's a good question. There is definitely a risk that the people at the low end of the labor pool are going to be disenfranchised and could react violently. Should the government's response be to try and force businesses to pay them more thereby increasing the likelihood that automation will become more attractive to a larger number of businesses? Or should it be to focus on training and education?

Very thought provoking notion, 88.

IMO we as a nation spend to much time trying to hold on to the past rather than preparing for the future.

[CAA Flagship]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjUQMsGZPb4&app=desktop[/youtube]

[houndawg]

What about the risk to the system of having vast numbers of people with no or very little skin in the game?

That's a good question. There is definitely a risk that the people at the low end of the labor pool are going to be disenfranchised and could react violently. Should the government's response be to try and force businesses to pay them more thereby increasing the likelihood that automation will become more attractive to a larger number of businesses? Or should it be to focus on training and education?

The government's response should be to figure out how to reverse the trend of fewer and fewer citizens having any skin in the system.