Tonight on PBS: Frontline exposes the Vatican

[Ibanez]

You really think the maintenance needs for a golf course and a cemetery are the same? Next indeed.

Not even close. And the average golf course doesn't cost a million to maintain either.

In the Golden Triangle it does.

[kalm]

Not even close. And the average golf course doesn't cost a million to maintain either.

In the Golden Triangle it does.

Where they grow lots opium in SE Asia? Or is there another???

[D1B]

Who audits your church?

Not an outside agency like I'm sure you're referring to. But again, the budgetary committee (about 15 parishoners each year) see all the incoming funds and the expenditures. Again, there isn't so much money coming in that it can't be followed.

You don't know that. Without a quality third party, not the catholic women's quilting guild, auditing your money, and money handling procedures, you don't really know what's coming in.

[JoltinJoe]

You really think the maintenance needs for a golf course and a cemetery are the same? Next indeed.

Not even close. And the average golf course doesn't cost a million to maintain either.

I sat on the Board of a country club. Our maintenance costs were nearly $1.5 million.

[GannonFan]

Not an outside agency like I'm sure you're referring to. But again, the budgetary committee (about 15 parishoners each year) see all the incoming funds and the expenditures. Again, there isn't so much money coming in that it can't be followed.

You don't know that. Without a quality third party, not the catholic women's quilting guild, auditing your money, and money handling procedures, you don't really know what's coming in.

In a poorly run parish, you're absolutely right, they don't know. In a parish with an involved laity, you're absolutely wrong. You don't need an auditor to count the donations when that involved laity counts them prior to handing them to the parish. And just like a household, there are only so many expenses that a parish church incurs so it's not that difficult to look at the ledger and see what money comes in and what money goes out. At the diocese level, you'd be right - that's as murky of an accounting area as you can get. But at the parish level, with a laity that is involved, it's pretty clear.

[kalm]

Not even close. And the average golf course doesn't cost a million to maintain either.

I sat on the Board of a country club. Our maintenance costs were nearly $1.5 million.

So of course you'd think that must be average...

[JoltinJoe]

I sat on the Board of a country club. Our maintenance costs were nearly $1.5 million.

So of course you'd think that must be average...

I said a million is average. In fact, the budget for our local municipal course, Spook Rock, which is a top-rated public, is slightly over a million for maintenance.

[D1B]

So of course you'd think that must be average...

I said a million is average. In fact, the budget for our local municipal course, Spruce Rock, which is a top-rated public, is slightly over a million for maintenance.

Red Herring. Your church simply protected the Archbishop's slush fund from children raped by your priests.

[D1B]

You don't know that. Without a quality third party, not the catholic women's quilting guild, auditing your money, and money handling procedures, you don't really know what's coming in.

In a poorly run parish, you're absolutely right, they don't know. In a parish with an involved laity, you're absolutely wrong. You don't need an auditor to count the donations when that involved laity counts them prior to handing them to the parish. And just like a household, there are only so many expenses that a parish church incurs so it's not that difficult to look at the ledger and see what money comes in and what money goes out. At the diocese level, you'd be right - that's as murky of an accounting area as you can get. But at the parish level, with a laity that is involved, it's pretty clear.

People send and give money directly to priests all the time. A third party audit would require you have safeguards and procedures in place to insure this practice does not happen or at a minimum, strongly discouraged and the laity is regularly instructed on how to give.

Who is doing background checks on your priests and committee members?

[kalm]

So of course you'd think that must be average...

I said a million is average. In fact, the budget for our local municipal course, Spook Rock, which is a top-rated public, is slightly over a million for maintenance.

Muni's like many government enterprises are notorious for wasting money. But City of Spokane courses which are also highly regarded are only around 600,000. Spokane Country Club is around a million but it's one of the fancier private clubs on the Northwest. Harrington G&CC (Harrington, WA population around 800) probably spends under 100,000. There are 1,000's of courses just like it nationwide.

1,000,000 is not average in general terms. Your elitism is getting in the way of your "facts" Joe .

[kalm]

I said a million is average. In fact, the budget for our local municipal course, Spruce Rock, which is a top-rated public, is slightly over a million for maintenance.

Red Herring. Your church simply protected the Archbishop's slush fund from children raped by your priests.

Bullshit...if Joe plays loose with even the smallest of facts how can he be trusted on the big ones...

[D1B]

I said a million is average. In fact, the budget for our local municipal course, Spook Rock, which is a top-rated public, is slightly over a million for maintenance.

Muni's like many government enterprises are notorious for wasting money. But City of Spokane courses which are also highly regarded are only around 600,000. Spokane Country Club is around a million but it's one of the fancier private clubs on the Northwest. Harrington G&CC (Harrington, WA population around 800) probably spends under 100,000. There are 1,000's of courses just like it nationwide.

1,000,000 is not average in general terms. Your elitism is getting in the way of your "facts" Joe .

Kalm, perhaps your golf course committee should embark on a $60,000,000 fundraising campaign to ensure the future of your greens and tees?

[GannonFan]

In a poorly run parish, you're absolutely right, they don't know. In a parish with an involved laity, you're absolutely wrong. You don't need an auditor to count the donations when that involved laity counts them prior to handing them to the parish. And just like a household, there are only so many expenses that a parish church incurs so it's not that difficult to look at the ledger and see what money comes in and what money goes out. At the diocese level, you'd be right - that's as murky of an accounting area as you can get. But at the parish level, with a laity that is involved, it's pretty clear.

People send and give money directly to priests all the time. A third party audit would require you have safeguards and procedures in place to insure this practice does not happen or at a minimum, strongly discouraged and the laity is regularly instructed on how to give.

Who is doing background checks on your priests and committee members?

I've never head of people sending money directly to a priest - ever. Do some people do that? Hey, there are fools everywhere so I'm sure someone does that, but it's not likely to be widespread. People tip a priest or a deacon when they do a baptism or a wedding, but just putting money in a envelope and mailing it to a priest just on a whim? Few and far between.

For the giving, the church already gives out weekly envelopes for money to be donated through the Mass collections, and all of that money goes through the laity before it ever goes to the pastor. Again, this isn't terribly complicated.

[Grizalltheway]

Not even close. And the average golf course doesn't cost a million to maintain either.

I sat on the Board of a country club. Our maintenance costs were nearly $1.5 million.

I guess that's what happens when pinky-lifters like yourself insist on having rare South American orchids in every flower bed.

[D1B]

People send and give money directly to priests all the time. A third party audit would require you have safeguards and procedures in place to insure this practice does not happen or at a minimum, strongly discouraged and the laity is regularly instructed on how to give.

Who is doing background checks on your priests and committee members?

I've never head of people sending money directly to a priest - ever. Do some people do that? Hey, there are fools everywhere so I'm sure someone does that, but it's not likely to be widespread. People tip a priest or a deacon when they do a baptism or a wedding, but just putting money in a envelope and mailing it to a priest just on a whim? Few and far between.

For the giving, the church already gives out weekly envelopes for money to be donated through the Mass collections, and all of that money goes through the laity before it ever goes to the pastor. Again, this isn't terribly complicated.

It happens all the time, and sometimes it's big money, like memorial gifts - going directly to a priests. People, especially the elderly, are very attached personally and emotionally to their priests. It's not uncommon for them to give through the priest or bishop.

You don't know for sure what happens to the money.

Who is doing the background checks on your priests and budget committee?

[JoltinJoe]

I sat on the Board of a country club. Our maintenance costs were nearly $1.5 million.

I guess that's what happens when pinky-lifters like yourself insist on having rare South American orchids in every flower bed.

That, and the cost of New York union labor. Don't forget, the boys with vowels at the end of the name always get their piece around here.

[JoltinJoe]

Muni's like many government enterprises are notorious for wasting money. But City of Spokane courses which are also highly regarded are only around 600,000....
1,000,000 is not average in general terms. Your elitism is getting in the way of your "facts" Joe .

I'm sure that's the cost for the type of courses that graduates (you did graduate, right?) of directional universities play.

[kalm]

Muni's like many government enterprises are notorious for wasting money. But City of Spokane courses which are also highly regarded are only around 600,000....
1,000,000 is not average in general terms. Your elitism is getting in the way of your "facts" Joe .

I'm sure that's the cost for the type of courses that graduates (you did graduate, right?) of directional universities play.

Indeed...I've been told by a "friend" that you can maintain an 18 hole facility to a fairly high standard at about a quarter of that cost.

But rather than pull a number out of my ass, I checked out the GCSAA numbers. Low and behold, the national average is around $700,000.

Muni playing, jeans and t- shirt wearing, directional school alumni are taking over the game...we are legion!

[D1B]

If the Catholic Church ran a golf club, the club pros would be raping male caddies on a massive scale. They'd also be fucking the kids in the Jr. program.

A priest would go nuts with the banter about shafts, holes, grips, heads, wedges, balls, traps, dimples...

Fucking perverts.

[SDHornet]

D1B, batting 1.000 in Catholic pedo threads since...well since forever.

[JoltinJoe]

You guys are funny. You get schooled over and over, and still claim "victory."

Bunch of

[93henfan]

You guys are funny. You get schooled over and over, and still claim "victory."

Bunch of

There's really no victory. The thousands upon thousands of children raped by catholic priests will never get their lives back fully.

You'd think the members of a money grubbing organization that protects and covers for pedophiles would be more interested in fixing the corruptness than trying to win on the internet (and losing every time).

[D1B]

People send and give money directly to priests all the time. A third party audit would require you have safeguards and procedures in place to insure this practice does not happen or at a minimum, strongly discouraged and the laity is regularly instructed on how to give.

Who is doing background checks on your priests and committee members?

I've never head of people sending money directly to a priest - ever. Do some people do that?

You're not looking. You've been conditioned by church dogma and your father to revere priests, acquiesce to authority and trust priests. Priest capitalize on this to rape your children and steal from church.

Visit bishop-accountablility.org or simply Google "catholic priest theft" to reveal hundreds of links to the criminals you unconditionally trust.

Have you seen the background checks on your priest and members of the finance committee?

[D1B]

You guys are funny. You get schooled over and over, and still claim "victory."

Bunch of

Chicago Sun Times - Breaking News

A second former teacher at a Catholic high school on the South Side filed a lawsuit against the institution, claiming he was fired because he reported an alleged sexual assault involving students to the state.

Stephen Jennings alleges in a suit filed Friday in Cook County Circuit Court he was wrongfully terminated from Hales Franciscan High School at 4930 S. Cottage Grove Ave., nearly four months after female students notified him of alleged sexual assaults by male students.

The students came to Jennings weeks after former principal Erica Brownfield conducted a staff meeting in fall 2013 in which she told staff that a female student had possibly been sexually assaulted by male students, the lawsuit said.

She allegedly acknowledged her responsibility to report the incident to the state Department of Children and Family Services but said she was not going to do so, the suit says. She also instructed staff members to not speak to DCFS or report the incident, Jennings claims.

After speaking with the female students, Jennings reported the incident to DCFS. Jennings says after that, he was unfairly disciplined by Brownfield and former school president Jeffrey Gray.

The suit also claims Gray pushed Jennings, then fired him on the spot during a heated confrontation at the school on Feb. 21. Jennings called police to the incident, and signed a battery report, according to the lawsuit.

The four-count suit claims violation of the Illinois Whistleblower Act, retaliatory discharge, interference with prospective business advantage and battery. He seeks at least $150,000 in damages, backpay, reinstatement of an equally senior position and court costs.

The suit comes two months after another teacher, Rochelle Daniels, filed a suit claiming she was wrongfully terminated from Hales for reporting alleged student assaults to DCFS.

Officials at the school could not be reached for comment Friday afternoon.

The catholic church continues to be an incubator for pedophiles, perverts, sadists and rapists.

[JoltinJoe]

You guys are funny. You get schooled over and over, and still claim "victory."

Bunch of

Chicago Sun Times - Breaking News

A second former teacher at a Catholic high school on the South Side filed a lawsuit against the institution, claiming he was fired because he reported an alleged sexual assault involving students to the state.

Stephen Jennings alleges in a suit filed Friday in Cook County Circuit Court he was wrongfully terminated from Hales Franciscan High School at 4930 S. Cottage Grove Ave., nearly four months after female students notified him of alleged sexual assaults by male students.

The students came to Jennings weeks after former principal Erica Brownfield conducted a staff meeting in fall 2013 in which she told staff that a female student had possibly been sexually assaulted by male students, the lawsuit said.

She allegedly acknowledged her responsibility to report the incident to the state Department of Children and Family Services but said she was not going to do so, the suit says. She also instructed staff members to not speak to DCFS or report the incident, Jennings claims.

After speaking with the female students, Jennings reported the incident to DCFS. Jennings says after that, he was unfairly disciplined by Brownfield and former school president Jeffrey Gray.

The suit also claims Gray pushed Jennings, then fired him on the spot during a heated confrontation at the school on Feb. 21. Jennings called police to the incident, and signed a battery report, according to the lawsuit.

The four-count suit claims violation of the Illinois Whistleblower Act, retaliatory discharge, interference with prospective business advantage and battery. He seeks at least $150,000 in damages, backpay, reinstatement of an equally senior position and court costs.

The suit comes two months after another teacher, Rochelle Daniels, filed a suit claiming she was wrongfully terminated from Hales for reporting alleged student assaults to DCFS.

Officials at the school could not be reached for comment Friday afternoon.

The catholic church continues to be an incubator for pedophiles, perverts, sadists and rapists.

You have an agenda and perpetuating the myth that there is something unique about the Catholic Church in how it handled these matters furthers that agenda. Frankly, society as a whole historically did an awful job protecting kids from sex abuse, but you all want to pretend that is not true, and that the Catholic Church had a unique problem.

Then again, more lies are told about the Catholic Church than any other institution on the face of the earth, which proves to me it is the true Church.