vutomcat wrote:Big East with two more good out of conference wins. Georgetown beats Mich St at a neutral site and Nova romps over Temple at the Liacouras Center. Pretty good? Very good.
Butler at the bottom of the Big East with a 10-2 record outside of conference. Georgetown and St. John's also in the bottom half of the conference with 9-3 and 10-3 records out of conference respectively. Providence 10-3 as well and we all know how good Nova and Creighton are.
As deep as any conference out there top to bottom. Only one weak team.
I am a fan of the Big East and like Nova a lot. They are good having only lost to 2 good teams but Temple is 6-14 this year. They are not good at all. That was not a good OOC win.
Also, Butler is 10-2 outside the conference, but 2-8 against the RPI top 100. They just had an easy OOC schedule.
Georgetown has been up and down this year. They lost to 7-15 Northeastern but beat Michigan State. Better get their act going in February if they want a chance at making the tourney if they have a chance.
As deep as any conference out there top to bottom. Only one weak team.
Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12, and ACC are better IMO. But I take no shame in being the 5th best conference after all the realignment mayhem.
That's about right although by RPI they are ahead of the ACC.
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tribe_pride wrote:
vutomcat wrote:Big East with two more good out of conference wins. Georgetown beats Mich St at a neutral site and Nova romps over Temple at the Liacouras Center. Pretty good? Very good.
I am a fan of the Big East and like Nova a lot. They are good having only lost to 2 good teams but Temple is 6-14 this year. They are not good at all. That was not a good OOC win.
Also, Butler is 10-2 outside the conference, but 2-8 against the RPI top 100. They just had an easy OOC schedule.
Georgetown has been up and down this year. They lost to 7-15 Northeastern but beat Michigan State. Better get their act going in February if they want a chance at making the tourney if they have a chance.
Some interesting things in this post. I don't want to question your allegiance to Nova but you seem to want to "damn them with faint praise".
You say they are good. Good? A ham sandwich is good. North Carolina and St. John's are good. Nova is one of the best teams in the country! They are 20-2. I know their record wouldn't be as good were they playing in the old Big East but they are having a terrific year. #2 ranked team in Sagarin. #6 in AP poll. Come on now!
The Temple win isn't a good OOC win? They beat a city series rival who beat them the last two years on their rival's court by 16 points. To me, that's a good win.
Let's root the Cats home against the Hall on Friday.
clenz wrote:Temple is 6-14 (1-7)...with just 3 wins over trans with winning record.
That's not a good win
Your facts are correct...but
They throw the records out here in Philly when the Big 5 play. It is rare when a Big 5 team runs all 4 games (Penn, St. Joe's, Lasalle and Temple) and wins by an average of over 20 points over their foes. I stand by my original comment. This was a good win.
clenz wrote:Temple is 6-14 (1-7)...with just 3 wins over trans with winning record.
That's not a good win
Your facts are correct...but
They throw the records out here in Philly when the Big 5 play. It is rare when a Big 5 team runs all 4 games (Penn, St. Joe's, Lasalle and Temple) and wins by an average of over 20 points over their foes. I stand by my original comment. This was a good win.
no...it's not
The only way that is a good win is blind homerism
Ask anyone in the nation if beating a team that is 8 games under .500 in a 30 game season and they'll tell you hell no.
vutomcat wrote:
Your facts are correct...but
They throw the records out here in Philly when the Big 5 play. It is rare when a Big 5 team runs all 4 games (Penn, St. Joe's, Lasalle and Temple) and wins by an average of over 20 points over their foes. I stand by my original comment. This was a good win.
no...it's not
The only way that is a good win is blind homerism
Ask anyone in the nation if beating a team that is 8 games under .500 in a 30 game season and they'll tell you hell no.
Ask anyone from Philly and they will tell you it's a good win. Look, I gave you a wide berth when you boasted about how you are the "expert" Creighton fan. Know your place, this is my house.
Ask anyone in the nation if beating a team that is 8 games under .500 in a 30 game season and they'll tell you hell no.
Ask anyone from Philly and they will tell you it's a good win. Look, I gave you a wide berth when you boasted about how you are the "expert" Creighton fan. Know your place, this is my house.
I work in Philly & can tell you Temple isn't a good win this year. They have a sum total of 1 AAC win - worst year they've had in at least 25 years.
Ask anyone from Philly and they will tell you it's a good win. Look, I gave you a wide berth when you boasted about how you are the "expert" Creighton fan. Know your place, this is my house.
I work in Philly & can tell you Temple isn't a good win this year. They have a sum total of 1 AAC win - worst year they've had in at least 25 years.
fucking this.
Temple isn't fucking good in any stretch of the word.
Great, throw the records out during a rivalry game...doesn't make it a good win
vutomcat wrote:
Some interesting things in this post. I don't want to question your allegiance to Nova but you seem to want to "damn them with faint praise".
You say they are good. Good? A ham sandwich is good. North Carolina and St. John's are good. Nova is one of the best teams in the country! They are 20-2. I know their record wouldn't be as good were they playing in the old Big East but they are having a terrific year. #2 ranked team in Sagarin. #6 in AP poll. Come on now!
The Temple win isn't a good OOC win? They beat a city series rival who beat them the last two years on their rival's court by 16 points. To me, that's a good win.
Let's root the Cats home against the Hall on Friday.
While I did not go there myself, it takes 2 hands to count the amount of members of my family who have graduated from Villanova so I have always been a fan. They had a great win versus Kansas this year and the only bad game they seemed to have played was Creighton who shot lights out. (Is that enough support?)
Are you really quipping about my use of the word "good." Notice I also said they only lost to 2 good teams - 1 of those is Syracuse who now is unquestionably #1 in the country and 1 of 2 undefeated teams. I was just differentiating good from bad.
While I know about the Big 5 rivalries, Temple is just not good this year and a loss would have been a horrible loss for them. Quit your whining and playing semantics and enjoy a good team. The team can speak for itself this year - you don't need to put others down who aren't supporting the team as much as you would like.
Ask anyone from Philly and they will tell you it's a good win. Look, I gave you a wide berth when you boasted about how you are the "expert" Creighton fan. Know your place, this is my house.
I work in Philly & can tell you Temple isn't a good win this year. They have a sum total of 1 AAC win - worst year they've had in at least 25 years.
vutomcat wrote:
Some interesting things in this post. I don't want to question your allegiance to Nova but you seem to want to "damn them with faint praise".
You say they are good. Good? A ham sandwich is good. North Carolina and St. John's are good. Nova is one of the best teams in the country! They are 20-2. I know their record wouldn't be as good were they playing in the old Big East but they are having a terrific year. #2 ranked team in Sagarin. #6 in AP poll. Come on now!
The Temple win isn't a good OOC win? They beat a city series rival who beat them the last two years on their rival's court by 16 points. To me, that's a good win.
Let's root the Cats home against the Hall on Friday.
While I did not go there myself, it takes 2 hands to count the amount of members of my family who have graduated from Villanova so I have always been a fan. They had a great win versus Kansas this year and the only bad game they seemed to have played was Creighton who shot lights out. (Is that enough support?)
Are you really quipping about my use of the word "good." Notice I also said they only lost to 2 good teams - 1 of those is Syracuse who now is unquestionably #1 in the country and 1 of 2 undefeated teams. I was just differentiating good from bad.
While I know about the Big 5 rivalries, Temple is just not good this year and a loss would have been a horrible loss for them. Quit your whining and playing semantics and enjoy a good team. The team can speak for itself this year - you don't need to put others down who aren't supporting the team as much as you would like.[/quote
I WONDER IF JAY WRIGHT THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD WIN? Lol. You guys kill me. Always good to come here for a laugh. Oh, I forgot to mention that the win was also for the outright Big 5 title. I don't know why I even bother educating you guys...
Seriously, man, I've been watching Big 5 basketball for 40+ years and used to throw streamers on the court. Temple blows this year. nova's a very good team without trying to be a blind homer and say that beating Temple amounts to a good win.
tribe_pride wrote:
While I did not go there myself, it takes 2 hands to count the amount of members of my family who have graduated from Villanova so I have always been a fan. They had a great win versus Kansas this year and the only bad game they seemed to have played was Creighton who shot lights out. (Is that enough support?)
Are you really quipping about my use of the word "good." Notice I also said they only lost to 2 good teams - 1 of those is Syracuse who now is unquestionably #1 in the country and 1 of 2 undefeated teams. I was just differentiating good from bad.
While I know about the Big 5 rivalries, Temple is just not good this year and a loss would have been a horrible loss for them. Quit your whining and playing semantics and enjoy a good team. The team can speak for itself this year - you don't need to put others down who aren't supporting the team as much as you would like.
I WONDER IF JAY WRIGHT THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD WIN? Lol. You guys kill me. Always good to come here for a laugh. Oh, I forgot to mention that the win was also for the outright Big 5 title. I don't know why I even bother educating you guys...
First of all, learn to quote right because you are making it hard to follow. You've screwed it up both times you have quoted me. I fixed it for you in this quote.
Second, it may have been a big win because it was a rivalry game but it was not really a good win. If a team is top 5 in the country, a win over a team like Temple this year cannot because considered a strong or good win even if they are a rival. A loss would have been embarrassing. Those are thoughts from members of my family who went to Nova and other friends who also went there. Once again a big win because it's a rival only in the rivalry context not in any other way.
I WONDER IF JAY WRIGHT THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD WIN? Lol. You guys kill me. Always good to come here for a laugh. Oh, I forgot to mention that the win was also for the outright Big 5 title. I don't know why I even bother educating you guys...
First of all, learn to quote right because you are making it hard to follow. You've screwed it up both times you have quoted me. I fixed it for you in this quote.
Second, it may have been a big win because it was a rivalry game but it was not really a good win. If a team is top 5 in the country, a win over a team like Temple this year cannot because considered a strong or good win even if they are a rival. A loss would have been embarrassing. Those are thoughts from members of my family who went to Nova and other friends who also went there. Once again a big win because it's a rival only in the rivalry context not in any other way.
Cell phone issues, sorry on screwing up the quotes.
Your second point sounds like semantics to me. This is a lot of back and forth just about whether it was a good win or not. I am satisfied with your " good rival win". We'll leave it at that. I'm done.
bluehenbillk wrote:
I work in Philly & can tell you Temple isn't a good win this year. They have a sum total of 1 AAC win - worst year they've had in at least 25 years.
College Game day ran special game with Digger, Jay Bilas and Jayson Williams giving them each $100 to spend on 12 teams that they thought might win the NCAA tourney. The 12 teams they let them bid on included two teams the Cats have beaten -Kansas and Iowa as well as Mich St., Michigan, Wichita, San Diego St., Kentucky, Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Virgina and Duke. At the conclusion of the game once each of them had selected their four teams they brought out one other wild card selection (Creighton) that any of them could use as a replacement for any of their selections. None of the four chose Creighton.
College Game day ran special game with Digger, Jay Bilas and Jayson Williams giving them each $100 to spend on 12 teams that they thought might win the NCAA tourney. The 12 teams they let them bid on included two teams the Cats have beaten -Kansas and Iowa as well as Mich St., Michigan, Wichita, San Diego St., Kentucky, Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Virgina and Duke. At the conclusion of the game once each of them had selected their four teams they brought out one other wild card selection (Creighton) that any of them could use as a replacement for any of their selections. None of the four chose Creighton.
Really just snubbing Fox Sports.
And really, Creighton isn't going to win the tournament, stop being a homer.
College Game day ran special game with Digger, Jay Bilas and Jayson Williams giving them each $100 to spend on 12 teams that they thought might win the NCAA tourney. The 12 teams they let them bid on included two teams the Cats have beaten -Kansas and Iowa as well as Mich St., Michigan, Wichita, San Diego St., Kentucky, Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Virgina and Duke. At the conclusion of the game once each of them had selected their four teams they brought out one other wild card selection (Creighton) that any of them could use as a replacement for any of their selections. None of the four chose Creighton.
Really just snubbing Fox Sports.
And really, Creighton isn't going to win the tournament, stop being a homer.
Creighton reminds me of St John's 1985 team. The 1985 Nova championship team couldn't keep up with them even a little bit. We never would have won the title if St. John's had beaten Georgetown in the semi's.
vutomcat wrote:Creighton reminds me of St John's 1985 team. The 1985 Nova championship team couldn't keep up with them even a little bit. We never would have won the title if St. John's had beaten Georgetown in the semi's.
Only difference is neither nova nor Creighton are Final Four Teams this year (barring a bracket blowing up for them). Both are good teams, but they aren't going to win 4 games in a row in the tourney to get that far.
Only difference is neither nova nor Creighton are Final Four Teams this year (barring a bracket blowing up for them). Both are good teams, but they aren't going to win 4 games in a row in the tourney to get that far.
Put down the pipe. If the tournament started today, both teams would be either a 2 or 3 seed. That is definitely final four material whether you like it or not.
The new Big East by the numbers
by Ken Pomeroy on Monday, February 17, 2014
The Villanova/Creighton game yesterday was a demonstration of trade-offs. In their first matchup, Jay Wright elected to play what has become normal Villanova defense during his tenure. In a gross oversimplification, this involves taking away the paint and hoping his opponent missed three-point shots. Creighton made 21-of-35 attempts and scored a whopping 1.45 points per possession in that contest.
In yesterday’s game, the Wildcats tried to take away the three, limiting Creighton to 15 attempts. With all the space inside the arc, Creighton made a high percentage of its twos (25-of-38) and got to the free-throw line 26 times compared to 14 in the first meeting. The end result was a wash. The Bluejays scored 1.47 points per possession in Omaha.
No need to rehash the details any more than that, but the trade-offs angle also applies to the Big East, who dropped eight teams and added three for this season. The conference seems to get treated as a second-class citizen in terms of prestige this season. The perception of the Big East is that there’s some sort of a difference between the “old” version and the current version.
In a previous world, “BCS conference” became synonymous with “power conference”, but now, that’s just sloppy. Despite the lack of football-playing schools, there’s really not much difference at all between the old and new Big East, at least if you evaluate the conference from top to bottom. Here’s a look at the old vs. new using this season’s ratings.
Old configuration Current configuration
Rk AdjO AdjD Rk AdjO AdjD
9 Villanova 119.3 95.5 9 Villanova 119.3 95.5
34 St. John's 110.3 95.6 34 St. John's 110.3 95.6
50 Marquette 109.1 96.7 50 Marquette 109.1 96.7
56 Providence 110.4 98.9 56 Providence 110.4 98.9
61 Georgetown 109.9 99.0 61 Georgetown 109.9 99.0
93 Seton Hall 107.7 100.9 93 Seton Hall 107.7 100.9
162 DePaul 106.0 105.8 162 DePaul 106.0 105.8
While the conference certainly misses the presence of Louisville and Syracuse, among others, Rutgers and South Florida are both significantly worse than they were last season and their exit from the league helps its overall strength. Notre Dame’s departure actually provides a bit of a boost this season, as well.
This isn’t the only way to evaluate conference strength, but it does shed some light on the relative merits of the new and old configurations. One might not care whether Rutgers and USF are merely below average or awful in the grand scheme of things. This is the conundrum of comparing the Big Ten to the Big 12. How much do you care about TCU being one of the worst teams in a power conference?
The other complicating factor in this comparison is the size of the conference. The old version of the Big East would have five more teams and thus five more chances to produce a high-level squad. It would have had 9-11 teams in the NCAA tournament compared to the 4-6 from the current configuration.
The current Big East is extremely unlikely to send two teams to the Elite Eight, and may not even get multiple teams to the Sweet Sixteen. But in terms of overall strength from top to bottom, there’s hardly a difference between the new version and old version. If the Creighton/Villanova game didn’t generate the same interest as Louisville/UConn, that’s a mistake, because based on the collective skill on the floor, it deserved as much attention if not more.
