This Is Why Stagnant Working Class Wages Are Unsustainable..

[kalm]

And as someone who employs mostly minimum wage workers (insert evil Walmart like employer jokes here), I can tell you there are a surprising amount of people with college degrees and I few with masters degrees willing to work minimum wage as there's still not that much out there. And I'm talking about solid, responsible people some of whom have families, from ages 30 - 50's who have had careers. Not everyone working minimum wage is an underachiever.

Ok, so forgive my generalization. But still, when we're talking about Fast Food, primarily those you see protesting, who do you see? It isn't the bus boy at Chili's working his way through college.

Oh I get what you're saying. But at least they're working.

[Ibanez]

Ok, so forgive my generalization. But still, when we're talking about Fast Food, primarily those you see protesting, who do you see? It isn't the bus boy at Chili's working his way through college.

Oh I get what you're saying. But at least they're working.

I agree, at least they are employed.

[houndawg]

Klean and Klam

sitting in a tree

(philosophical giants)

F U C K I N G

You are on a roll lately!

I think he's smoking dope. All of a sudden its almost like he has a personality.

[CID1990]

You are on a roll lately!

I think he's smoking dope. All of a sudden its almost like he has a personality.

Says the progtard robot

I don't need drugs I'm high on life

and horse flogging you and Felchyfetty and the rest of the moonbeams

[houndawg]

I think he's smoking dope. All of a sudden its almost like he has a personality.

Says the progtard robot

I don't need drugs I'm high on life

and horse flogging you and Felchyfetty and the rest of the moonbeams

Who you calling a progtard, conkwit?

[CID1990]

Says the progtard robot

I don't need drugs I'm high on life

and horse flogging you and Felchyfetty and the rest of the moonbeams

Who you calling a progtard, conkwit?

conkwit

[JohnStOnge]

I must admit that I'm not seeing the argument for why stagnant "working class" wages are unsustainable in the initial post.

[kalm]

I must admit that I'm not seeing the argument for why stagnant "working class" wages are unsustainable in the initial post.

1). If they don't follow inflation demand for goods goes down. There simply aren't enough wealthy people and they can't buy enough things (houses, cars, etc) to sustain our current economy.

2). Productivity has outpaced wages for quite sometime (although that has slowed some since the recession). If increasing productivity is going disproportionately to the investor class you end up with an oligarchy... Oligopoly...whatever the hell it's called. If it goes too far, out come the pitchforks and 1%'s feelings get real hurt or they're rounded up like the Jews in Nazi Germany...

[JohnStOnge]

1). If they don't follow inflation demand for goods goes down. There simply aren't enough wealthy people and they can't buy enough things (houses, cars, etc) to sustain our current economy.

2). Productivity has outpaced wages for quite sometime (although that has slowed some since the recession). If increasing productivity is going disproportionately to the investor class you end up with an oligarchy... Oligopoly...whatever the hell it's called. If it goes too far, out come the pitchforks and 1%'s feelings get real hurt or they're rounded up like the Jews in Nazi Germany...

The first point is interesting. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

The second...I don't know. You have to look at the reason for the increasing productivity. Is it because of something to do with the workers or is it other factors such as technology? And if it's technology, who is investing in the technology?

I have never thought that the trend towards increasing productivity is due to American workers becoming better. I think it's been due to other factors such as technology and management.

[kalm]

1). If they don't follow inflation demand for goods goes down. There simply aren't enough wealthy people and they can't buy enough things (houses, cars, etc) to sustain our current economy.

2). Productivity has outpaced wages for quite sometime (although that has slowed some since the recession). If increasing productivity is going disproportionately to the investor class you end up with an oligarchy... Oligopoly...whatever the hell it's called. If it goes too far, out come the pitchforks and 1%'s feelings get real hurt or they're rounded up like the Jews in Nazi Germany...

The first point is interesting. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

The second...I don't know. You have to look at the reason for the increasing productivity. Is it because of something to do with the workers or is it other factors such as technology? And if it's technology, who is investing in the technology?

I have never thought that the trend towards increasing productivity is due to American workers becoming better. I think it's been due to other factors such as technology and management.

It's multiple factors. Two income households have increased, people work longer hours due to recessionary cut backs/do more with less, and yes...automation. Regardless, everyone feels they work hard and deserve more than what they get...factory workers and pool-side heirs alike. In fact, our entire system is based on this keeping up with the Jones's/American dream of late model SUV's, flat screen tv's, and the latest mobile device mentality.

For right or wrong that is the perception and when the scale tips too far away from the unwashed mass's ability to acquire what they've been advertised...they're gonna get a bit uppity.

[houndawg]

1). If they don't follow inflation demand for goods goes down. There simply aren't enough wealthy people and they can't buy enough things (houses, cars, etc) to sustain our current economy.

2). Productivity has outpaced wages for quite sometime (although that has slowed some since the recession). If increasing productivity is going disproportionately to the investor class you end up with an oligarchy... Oligopoly...whatever the hell it's called. If it goes too far, out come the pitchforks and 1%'s feelings get real hurt or they're rounded up like the Jews in Nazi Germany...

The first point is interesting. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

The second...I don't know. You have to look at the reason for the increasing productivity. Is it because of something to do with the workers or is it other factors such as technology? And if it's technology, who is investing in the technology?

I have never thought that the trend towards increasing productivity is due to American workers becoming better. I think it's been due to other factors such as technology and management.

More often than not our technology and management both lag behind that of other major manufacturing nations.

[AZGrizFan]

The first point is interesting. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

The second...I don't know. You have to look at the reason for the increasing productivity. Is it because of something to do with the workers or is it other factors such as technology? And if it's technology, who is investing in the technology?

I have never thought that the trend towards increasing productivity is due to American workers becoming better. I think it's been due to other factors such as technology and management.

More often than not our technology and management both lag behind that of other major manufacturing nations.

That is a completely false assumption with no basis in fact and no POSSIBLE way to back it up with any sort of documentation.

[houndawg]

More often than not our technology and management both lag behind that of other major manufacturing nations.

That is a completely false assumption with no basis in fact and no POSSIBLE way to back it up with any sort of documentation.

Your verbal ejaculations, while amusing, are, as per usual, irrelevant because the proof has been all around you for decades since WW2 in the form of industry that we have lost to our overseas competition. Stuff like steel. Management wouldn't modernize their equipment and we lost out to the Japanese and Europeans.

[UNI88]

The first point is interesting. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

The second...I don't know. You have to look at the reason for the increasing productivity. Is it because of something to do with the workers or is it other factors such as technology? And if it's technology, who is investing in the technology?

I have never thought that the trend towards increasing productivity is due to American workers becoming better. I think it's been due to other factors such as technology and management.

It's multiple factors. Two income households have increased, people work longer hours due to recessionary cut backs/do more with less, and yes...automation. Regardless, everyone feels they work hard and deserve more than what they get...factory workers and pool-side heirs alike. In fact, our entire system is based on this keeping up with the Jones's/American dream of late model SUV's, flat screen tv's, and the latest mobile device mentality.

For right or wrong that is the perception and when the scale tips too far away from the unwashed mass's ability to acquire what they've been advertised...they're gonna get a bit uppity.

I don't disagree that productivity has increased and owners and upper management have pocketed much of that gain. I don't disagree with owners pocketing their gains because they're the ones taking the risks but are senior managers of publicly traded companies really that much more valuable than those below them?

It's also a generalization. You need to look at productivity vs. wages in industries and professions to get a true picture.

If "productivity has outpaced wages for quite sometime", how does productivity for minimum wage earners compare to their wages? My guess is that minimum wage has increased more than productivity has increased.

[CID1990]

That is a completely false assumption with no basis in fact and no POSSIBLE way to back it up with any sort of documentation.

Your verbal ejaculations, while amusing, are, as per usual, irrelevant because the proof has been all around you for decades since WW2 in the form of industry that we have lost to our overseas competition. Stuff like steel. Management wouldn't modernize their equipment and we lost out to the Japanese and Europeans.

We haven't lost manufacturing Dawg, we've sent it willingly. And it has nothing to do with technology.

Careful you don't get your liberal dogmas crossed up- it's all because those evil corporatists don't want to pay living wages to Americans, remember?

[Chizzang]

Your verbal ejaculations, while amusing, are, as per usual, irrelevant because the proof has been all around you for decades since WW2 in the form of industry that we have lost to our overseas competition. Stuff like steel. Management wouldn't modernize their equipment and we lost out to the Japanese and Europeans.

We haven't lost manufacturing Dawg, we've sent it willingly. And it has nothing to do with technology.

Careful you don't get your liberal dogmas crossed up- it's all because those evil corporatists don't want to pay living wages to Americans, remember?

I keep reading that:
The Chinese factories are the most technologically advanced in the world

[Grizalltheway]

We haven't lost manufacturing Dawg, we've sent it willingly. And it has nothing to do with technology.

Careful you don't get your liberal dogmas crossed up- it's all because those evil corporatists don't want to pay living wages to Americans, remember?

I keep reading that:
The Chinese factories are the most technologically advanced in the world

Is that why breathing the air there is like smokIng two packs a day?

[DSUrocks07]

I keep reading that:
The Chinese factories are the most technologically advanced in the world

Is that why breathing the air there is like smokIng two packs a day?

Buy American...

Oh wait, that would be racist (expensive).

[CID1990]

We haven't lost manufacturing Dawg, we've sent it willingly. And it has nothing to do with technology.

Careful you don't get your liberal dogmas crossed up- it's all because those evil corporatists don't want to pay living wages to Americans, remember?

I keep reading that:
The Chinese factories are the most technologically advanced in the world

And yet they produce sh1t.

They DO have some very advanced factories- but those are used to produce our own hi tech goods like iPhones, and it was us who gave them the technology.

[AZGrizFan]

That is a completely false assumption with no basis in fact and no POSSIBLE way to back it up with any sort of documentation.

Your verbal ejaculations, while amusing, are, as per usual, irrelevant because the proof has been all around you for decades since WW2 in the form of industry that we have lost to our overseas competition. Stuff like steel. Management wouldn't modernize their equipment and we lost out to the Japanese and Europeans.

Industry has moved overseas because people work there for $1 a day. They don't have the EPA, OSHA, Workers Comp, EEOC, Greenpeace, PETA or any of that crap getting in their way and driving up costs.

[Grizalltheway]

Your verbal ejaculations, while amusing, are, as per usual, irrelevant because the proof has been all around you for decades since WW2 in the form of industry that we have lost to our overseas competition. Stuff like steel. Management wouldn't modernize their equipment and we lost out to the Japanese and Europeans.

Industry has moved overseas because people work there for $1 a day. They don't have the EPA, OSHA, Workers Comp, EEOC, Greenpeace, PETA or any of that crap getting in their way and driving up costs.

People in Germany and Japan work for a $1 a day?

[AZGrizFan]

Industry has moved overseas because people work there for $1 a day. They don't have the EPA, OSHA, Workers Comp, EEOC, Greenpeace, PETA or any of that crap getting in their way and driving up costs.

People in Germany and Japan work for a $1 a day?

How much industry have we lost to Germany? And does Japan have OSHA, EPA, etc., etc., etc.?

[Grizalltheway]

People in Germany and Japan work for a $1 a day?

How much industry have we lost to Germany? And does Japan have OSHA, EPA, etc., etc., etc.?

Don't know about steel specifically, but Germany still has thriving manufacturing and export sectors, along with unions and government regulations. I would be shocked if Japan didn't have any kind of safety or environmental regulations.

[AZGrizFan]

How much industry have we lost to Germany? And does Japan have OSHA, EPA, etc., etc., etc.?

Don't know about steel specifically, but Germany still has thriving manufacturing and export sectors, along with unions and government regulations. I would be shocked if Japan didn't have any kind of safety or environmental regulations.

Having it doesn't mean we lost it to them.

[CID1990]

Industry has moved overseas because people work there for $1 a day. They don't have the EPA, OSHA, Workers Comp, EEOC, Greenpeace, PETA or any of that crap getting in their way and driving up costs.

People in Germany and Japan work for a $1 a day?

Last time I checked, Japan and Germany were moving stuff to the US.