Xenophobic and homophobic Conks want to boycott Coke

[Skjellyfetti]

Hitler's Germany called, they'd like their worldview back.

You can call it Hitler's world view. But it's obviously true. Take 10 people who all speak the same language and understand each other and can relate to each other. Take another 10 people who all speak different languages and don't understand each other or relate to each other.

Which group do you think will be more effective? It's pretty obvious.

Guess that explains a lot about Louisiana -- the first state in the Union with a majority of non-English speakers.


And, not in a negative way at all. Louisiana is one of my favorite states and New Orleans is one of my favorite cities -- the mixture of cultures in the state and the city is what makes it great -- from the food to the music.

[Grizalltheway]

Hitler's Germany called, they'd like their worldview back.

You can call it Hitler's world view. But it's obviously true. Take 10 people who all speak the same language and understand each other and can relate to each other. Take another 10 people who all speak different languages and don't understand each other or relate to each other.

Which group do you think will be more effective? It's pretty obvious.

America would be a pretty dull place if every immigrant checked their cultural identity at the airport. That doesn't mean they shouldn't learn to speak English proficiently, but there's nothing wrong with a diverse society.

[kalm]

Can you think of any strengths to multiculturalism?

I suppose there might be some situations in which someone might see an angle that otherwise might not be seen. But I really can't think of any specific example.

But, on balance, I think it's a weakness. It's like asking: Group 1 has everybody on the same page. Group 2 does not have everybody on the same page. Which group has the advantage?

Of course it could be bad if everyone in Group 1 is on the wrong page. But I don't think that's the situation here. I think that there is, historically, a "United States Culture." And I don't think it's been on the wrong page.

I think that there was a time when immigrants were expected to adapt to and be assimilated into the larger "United States' culture. I don't think it's like that now. I think it's become more a matter of the United States culture having to adapt to the immigrants. And I think that's a mistake.

1). So you think less cultural ideas and opinions are better than more?

2). Tell us more about this "United States Culture" you speak of...

[Col Hogan]

America would be a pretty dull place if every immigrant checked their cultural identity at the airport. That doesn't mean they shouldn't learn to speak English proficiently, but there's nothing wrong with a diverse society.

I agree completely...surprised?

My grandparents, when they came to this country, lived in a segregated ethnic neighborhood...went to an ethnically segregated church...and joined ethnically oriented social groups...all by choice because it was comfortable and available...

But, they also took English lessons from those social groups and churches, and demanded that my father and his sisters and brother "become Americans"...

I still go back home...visit the old neighborhoods...get the foods I love...my hometown still has several strong ethnic neighborhoods...

It helped make me who I am today...

[DSUrocks07]

I suppose there might be some situations in which someone might see an angle that otherwise might not be seen. But I really can't think of any specific example.

But, on balance, I think it's a weakness. It's like asking: Group 1 has everybody on the same page. Group 2 does not have everybody on the same page. Which group has the advantage?

Of course it could be bad if everyone in Group 1 is on the wrong page. But I don't think that's the situation here. I think that there is, historically, a "United States Culture." And I don't think it's been on the wrong page.

I think that there was a time when immigrants were expected to adapt to and be assimilated into the larger "United States' culture. I don't think it's like that now. I think it's become more a matter of the United States culture having to adapt to the immigrants. And I think that's a mistake.

1). So you think less cultural ideas and opinions are better than more?

2). Tell us more about this "United States Culture" you speak of...

There is no United States culture. Americans just bite off from other societies that came before them and claim it as their own.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqScH2CfYTg[/youtube]

[dbackjon]

America would be a pretty dull place if every immigrant checked their cultural identity at the airport. That doesn't mean they shouldn't learn to speak English proficiently, but there's nothing wrong with a diverse society.

I agree completely...surprised?

My grandparents, when they came to this country, lived in a segregated ethnic neighborhood...went to an ethnically segregated church...and joined ethnically oriented social groups...all by choice because it was comfortable and available...

But, they also took English lessons from those social groups and churches, and demanded that my father and his sisters and brother "become Americans"...

I still go back home...visit the old neighborhoods...get the foods I love...my hometown still has several strong ethnic neighborhoods...

It helped make me who I am today...

And you think that has stopped?

But I look at my brother in-laws family the parents and my brother-in-law's generation were born in Mexico

The parents speak some English but not very well
My brother-in-law and his generation are bilingual
The nephews speak almost no Spanish and do the exact same thing every other 8-10 year old does
in this country

[Col Hogan]

I agree completely...surprised?

My grandparents, when they came to this country, lived in a segregated ethnic neighborhood...went to an ethnically segregated church...and joined ethnically oriented social groups...all by choice because it was comfortable and available...

But, they also took English lessons from those social groups and churches, and demanded that my father and his sisters and brother "become Americans"...

I still go back home...visit the old neighborhoods...get the foods I love...my hometown still has several strong ethnic neighborhoods...

It helped make me who I am today...

And you think that has stopped?

But I look at my brother in-laws family the parents and my brother-in-law's generation were born in Mexico

The parents speak some English but not very well
My brother-in-law and his generation are bilingual
The nephews speak almost no Spanish and do the exact same thing every other 8-10 year old does
in this country

I don't think it has stopped...but I see a movement towards "being American is bad"...

Keep your pride in the past...BUT ITS THE PAST...move forward...learn English...acclimate into this society...

We have a rich history of each ethnic group adding a little of their "spice" to the melting pot...that's what makes America great...

But jump into that pot...contribute, don't take only...

[kalm]

And you think that has stopped?

But I look at my brother in-laws family the parents and my brother-in-law's generation were born in Mexico

The parents speak some English but not very well
My brother-in-law and his generation are bilingual
The nephews speak almost no Spanish and do the exact same thing every other 8-10 year old does
in this country

I don't think it has stopped...but I see a movement towards "being American is bad"...

Keep your pride in the past...BUT ITS THE PAST...move forward...learn English...acclimate into this society...

We have a rich history of each ethnic group adding a little of their "spice" to the melting pot...that's what makes America great...

But jump into that pot...contribute, don't take only...

I agree with this completely.

[Ibanez]

Hitler's Germany called, they'd like their worldview back.

You can call it Hitler's world view. But it's obviously true. Take 10 people who all speak the same language and understand each other and can relate to each other. Take another 10 people who all speak different languages and don't understand each other or relate to each other.

Which group do you think will be more effective? It's pretty obvious.

No shit. You can get a person from the ghetto, the sticks and the city and neither person will understand the other.

Spoiler: show

Hyperbole?

You have to find common ground and learn the language. If you ever go to Europe, you'll find that many people speak multiple languages. Why? because the French, English, German, Spanish, Greek, Italian, etc.. .all work, live and play in close proximitiy.

[CID1990]

It's not so bad. But it reflects the idea that multiculturalism is a a strength. And it's not. It's a weakness. It's a reality that must be dealt with and managed. But it's not a strength.

For example: A country in which everyone speaks one primary language with little variation in proficiency, all other things being equal, is going to be more efficient than one in which there are numerous groups each of which has a different primary language.

You may find it ironic that the first person who introduced me to that concept was a Black high school World History teacher. He went through the problems created when countries have numerous dialects while contrasting that situation to what the situation in the United States was at that time (i.e., English was the overwhelmingly dominant language and everyone could communicate effectively with each other).

But he was/is right. And expanding upon his point multiculturalism is a problem to be overcome, not a treasure to be embraced.

Hitler's Germany called, they'd like their worldview back.

You'd better loop pretty much all of Asia including Japan in there. Throw in most Middle Eastern nation as well.

[dbackjon]

I don't think it has stopped...but I see a movement towards "being American is bad"...

Keep your pride in the past...BUT ITS THE PAST...move forward...learn English...acclimate into this society...

We have a rich history of each ethnic group adding a little of their "spice" to the melting pot...that's what makes America great...

But jump into that pot...contribute, don't take only...

I agree with this completely.

Agree as well. And the vast majority of immigrants do this. it usually takes a generation or two, but that is the pattern since our country was founded.

[CID1990]

I agree with this completely.

And the vast majority of immigrants do this.

That depends largely on where they come from, and how our legal immigration laws apply to their specific countries.

1/3 of all native Salvadorans live in the US, yet only a fraction of them ever naturalize and a large portion wind up returning to El Salvador to live, while enjoying LPR status and the attending benefits. We have Salvadoran LPRs that never spend more than 1 week per year in the US.

A couple common sense tweaks to the INA would fix this, but that won't happen. Gotta save space for the pork in the immigration reform bill. Anybody need a bridge?

[UNI88]

I agree with this completely.

Agree as well. And the vast majority of immigrants do this. it usually takes a generation or two, but that is the pattern since our country was founded.

Hoagie nails it.

And to respond to the question about the benefits of multiculturalism ... the mixing of people of different races and cultures into the great American melting pot has contributed greatly to the US of A. It's who we are and it has strengthened our gene pool. As John Winger put it:

Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell's the matter with you? Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw "Old Yeller?" Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end?

[Chizzang]

And the vast majority of immigrants do this.

That depends largely on where they come from, and how our legal immigration laws apply to their specific countries.

1/3 of all native Salvadorans live in the US, yet only a fraction of them ever naturalize and a large portion wind up returning to El Salvador to live, while enjoying LPR status and the attending benefits. We have Salvadoran LPRs that never spend more than 1 week per year in the US.

A couple common sense tweaks to the INA would fix this, but that won't happen. Gotta save space for the pork in the immigration reform bill. Anybody need a bridge?

Yeah but... Pacific Rim Mining Corp needs everybody to just stay cool
and not fuck this up

Send in the troops if we need to dammit.!!!
Just make damn sure we can extract 100% of the El Salvadorian gold and ship that back home

[dbackjon]

And the vast majority of immigrants do this.

That depends largely on where they come from, and how our legal immigration laws apply to their specific countries.

1/3 of all native Salvadorans live in the US, yet only a fraction of them ever naturalize and a large portion wind up returning to El Salvador to live, while enjoying LPR status and the attending benefits. We have Salvadoran LPRs that never spend more than 1 week per year in the US.

A couple common sense tweaks to the INA would fix this, but that won't happen. Gotta save space for the pork in the immigration reform bill. Anybody need a bridge?

What kind of tweaks?

And I suppose it also depends on where the immigrants end up (i.e concentrated or dispersed). Alex's boss, and a co-worker are Salvadoran (born, immigrated at a young age). Now both are citizens, married, have kids that typical American kids. There is a Central American community in Phoenix, but nothing like the concentrations around DC, NY and LA.

[CID1990]

That depends largely on where they come from, and how our legal immigration laws apply to their specific countries.

1/3 of all native Salvadorans live in the US, yet only a fraction of them ever naturalize and a large portion wind up returning to El Salvador to live, while enjoying LPR status and the attending benefits. We have Salvadoran LPRs that never spend more than 1 week per year in the US.

A couple common sense tweaks to the INA would fix this, but that won't happen. Gotta save space for the pork in the immigration reform bill. Anybody need a bridge?

What kind of tweaks?

And I suppose it also depends on where the immigrants end up (i.e concentrated or dispersed). Alex's boss, and a co-worker are Salvadoran (born, immigrated at a young age). Now both are citizens, married, have kids that typical American kids. There is a Central American community in Phoenix, but nothing like the concentrations around DC, NY and LA.

This tweak: require immigrants to actually immigrate- in order to maintain LPR status you must remain in the US for 300 days per year until you naturalize. And in order for LPRs to receive any kind of government benefit they must actually be physically in the US.

[dbackjon]

What kind of tweaks?

And I suppose it also depends on where the immigrants end up (i.e concentrated or dispersed). Alex's boss, and a co-worker are Salvadoran (born, immigrated at a young age). Now both are citizens, married, have kids that typical American kids. There is a Central American community in Phoenix, but nothing like the concentrations around DC, NY and LA.

This tweak: require immigrants to actually immigrate- in order to maintain LPR status you must remain in the US for 300 days per year until you naturalize. And in order for LPRs to receive any kind of government benefit they must actually be physically in the US.

That makes too much sense

[CID1990]

This tweak: require immigrants to actually immigrate- in order to maintain LPR status you must remain in the US for 300 days per year until you naturalize. And in order for LPRs to receive any kind of government benefit they must actually be physically in the US.

That makes too much sense

Like I said, there will be all kinds of pork in immigration "reform" but common sense will be MIA

[Bronco]

I remember the ad being on in the background but I didn't look at it so I missed the part where I was supposed to be scared of two Homosexuals but then again I'm a registered independent
I'm for sure not xenophobic or scared of someone strange
I love strange

[CID1990]

I remember the ad being on in the background but I didn't look at it so I missed the part where I was supposed to be scared of two Homosexuals but then again I'm a registered independent
I'm for sure not xenophobic or scared of someone strange
I love strange

Been a long time since I had me some good strange

[Chizzang]

I remember the ad being on in the background but I didn't look at it so I missed the part where I was supposed to be scared of two Homosexuals but then again I'm a registered independent
I'm for sure not xenophobic or scared of someone strange
I love strange

Registered Independent... oh whew* I needed a good laugh today

[JohnStOnge]

You can subdivide culture to the nth degree. The culture within my family is probably not the same as the culture within the family across the street. But there was what can be reasonably defined as a dominant "United States" culture when I was younger. I've been around long enough to have seen it.

Can I define it? No. But anybody who has been around long enough saw it. That's not to way there was no variation within it. But it was there.

[Skjellyfetti]

You can subdivide culture to the nth degree. The culture within my family is probably not the same as the culture within the family across the street. But there was what can be reasonably defined as a dominant "United States" culture when I was younger. I've been around long enough to have seen it.

Can I define it? No. But anybody who has been around long enough saw it. That's not to way there was no variation within it. But it was there.

Oh, you just miss Jim Crow.

[JohnStOnge]

1). So you think less cultural ideas and opinions are better than more?

Depends. If you've got one culture that has opinions that lead to the correct decisions then having more cultural opinions decreases efficiency. And I think the United States is in the "decreased efficiency" mode.

2). Tell us more about this "United States Culture" you speak of...

Well, the one that got us to where we got had accepted conventions. Like marriage being between one man and one woman. Like being grounded in Christian Faith. And, no, I'm not a Christian but that was part of the culture. There were non Christians but there were all sorts of associations between Christianity and government. Prayer before high school football games. Prayer in schools every morning. Prayer by the Apollo Eight astronauts as they orbited the moon on Christmas Eve.

Watch Leave it to Beaver. Watch Father Knows Best. Others. Those were expressions of the culture. You may not think it should have been like that. But that's how it was. They were expressions related to what was culturally accepted. There was no effort to act as though "multiculturalism" was something to be embraced.

And we were a more efficient, effective country at the time.

[JohnStOnge]

Oh, you just miss Jim Crow.

Jim Crow laws were a negative. Other things were positives. We have negatives and positives now as well.

And, on balance, the needle on the meter is farther in the negative direction now than it was during the time of Jim Crow laws.