Walmart on Welfare

[Cap'n Cat]

I'll start a thread sometime, Z. Briefly, my thought is that it was the Soviet Union who led us around by a leash, making us unnecessarily spend all that cash over what was really hysteria. And they knew it! I've read many passages describing internal Politburo disbelief at how America's presidents and military completely missed the mark and overreacted to Cold War minutiae.
Also, we could not penetrate the Soviet Union with spies as they could readily do in the US. If you lined up all the spy v spy, CIA v KGB capers, the Soviet Union comes out WAY ahead, if you examine the history. In addition, the Russians/Soviets had been in the spy business since the beginning of (their) time, around 900 CE. America, when one looks at it from a long-range and 50,000 foot perspective, was still in an overall "adolescence" in its existence 1945-1991 and struggled to build organic espionage institutions, procedures and practices. It was all we could do to hang on.
Yeah, the Soviet Union ended up collapsing because it couldn't keep up with the American Joneses, but that was by the mere brute force of arms, not the ideological struggle it once was. To this day, we suffer many espionage humiliations because we are still outclassed and outmanned and charged with a different mandate.

Nothing you've said makes ANY kind of argument for the Soviet Union WINNING the cold war.

While I agree with you on the spying thing (although I think that is related WAY more to the ability to develop spy networks in FREE countries vs countries that are locked down like Auschwitz), the spending was what drove them into oblivion. And they're STILL in oblivion. Again, look behind the facade in seaport "tourist" towns like Sochi. Makes our "slums" look like Park Avenue.

Sorry, I thought it was inferred in the text.

[Grizalltheway]

More like Sweden

Hey, if you want to live in a homogenous, mono-chromatic society with 60%+ tax rates where the cost of living is sky high, and upward mobility is virtually nonexistent. What's stopping you from moving?

20% of Sweden's population were of foreign background as of 2012. Would it kill you to scan Wikipedia before you start spewing your nonsense?

[Chizzang]

If you're predicting the downfall of Sweden:
Based entirely on our ability to remove our military from Europe then you have completely ignored our past and seriously under estimated the lunacy of our present course...

But I like your spirit

I'm not predicting their downfall, but I do believe that the social benefits of Swedish citizenship will take a major hit with a recalcitrant US and a resurgent (and aggressive) Russia. And the Swedes were never afraid to spend defense dollars when they had to- Saab developed some of the best air superiority fighters outside the US. But therein lies their problem- Finland, Denmark, and all of the Baltic States are not going to give up their own social paradises in favor of defense spending, but Sweden will. And they will find themselves in the curious position of basically being the #2 military power in Europe behind Germany. They will have to significantly tighten their belts.

But yeah. My pessimistic side tells me we will have significant military assets in places like Germany and Korea well after I am gone from this earth. It is nice to dream, though

Edit: eventually, we will have NO choice but to leave some of those places. China is going to financially leverage us out of the world police business

I was going to suggest that we have more chickens coming home to roost than Sweden ever will...

See: China

[CID1990]

I'm not predicting their downfall, but I do believe that the social benefits of Swedish citizenship will take a major hit with a recalcitrant US and a resurgent (and aggressive) Russia. And the Swedes were never afraid to spend defense dollars when they had to- Saab developed some of the best air superiority fighters outside the US. But therein lies their problem- Finland, Denmark, and all of the Baltic States are not going to give up their own social paradises in favor of defense spending, but Sweden will. And they will find themselves in the curious position of basically being the #2 military power in Europe behind Germany. They will have to significantly tighten their belts.

But yeah. My pessimistic side tells me we will have significant military assets in places like Germany and Korea well after I am gone from this earth. It is nice to dream, though

Edit: eventually, we will have NO choice but to leave some of those places. China is going to financially leverage us out of the world police business

I was going to suggest that we have more chickens coming home to roost than Sweden ever will...

See: China

Dont get me wrong... I definitely we are going to death spiral down the sh!thole...

we are going to drag a lot of others right down with us

(the ones that dont kowtow to China and their new BFF Russia)

see: Sweden

[UNI88]

I'm not predicting their downfall, but I do believe that the social benefits of Swedish citizenship will take a major hit with a recalcitrant US and a resurgent (and aggressive) Russia. And the Swedes were never afraid to spend defense dollars when they had to- Saab developed some of the best air superiority fighters outside the US. But therein lies their problem- Finland, Denmark, and all of the Baltic States are not going to give up their own social paradises in favor of defense spending, but Sweden will. And they will find themselves in the curious position of basically being the #2 military power in Europe behind Germany. They will have to significantly tighten their belts.

But yeah. My pessimistic side tells me we will have significant military assets in places like Germany and Korea well after I am gone from this earth. It is nice to dream, though

Edit: eventually, we will have NO choice but to leave some of those places. China is going to financially leverage us out of the world police business

I was going to suggest that we have more chickens coming home to roost than Sweden ever will...

See: China

I agree but I also think that China has more chickens coming home to roost than we do.

We live in interesting times. Everyone has an opinion and a prediction or two.

[Chizzang]

I was going to suggest that we have more chickens coming home to roost than Sweden ever will...

See: China

I agree but I also think that China has more chickens coming home to roost than we do.

We live in interesting times. Everyone has an opinion and a prediction or two.

China has major issues...
But were their people not so docile

[CID1990]

I agree but I also think that China has more chickens coming home to roost than we do.

We live in interesting times. Everyone has an opinion and a prediction or two.

China has major issues...
But were their people not so docile

They aren't as docile as you think- right now the government is using some good ol anti American nationalism on em

[kalm]

I was going to suggest that we have more chickens coming home to roost than Sweden ever will...

See: China

Dont get me wrong... I definitely we are going to death spiral down the sh!thole...

we are going to drag a lot of others right down with us

(the ones that dont kowtow to China and their new BFF Russia)

see: Sweden

Quickly or a long drawn out sunset...

[AZGrizFan]

Dont get me wrong... I definitely we are going to death spiral down the sh!thole...

we are going to drag a lot of others right down with us

(the ones that dont kowtow to China and their new BFF Russia)

see: Sweden

Quickly or a long drawn out sunset...

We'd already be on the upswing if the fucking bailouts hadn't happened.

[kalm]

Quickly or a long drawn out sunset...

We'd already be on the upswing if the fucking bailouts hadn't happened.

Thanks Obushma!

But seriously, what do you think conditions would be like without the emergency bailouts, Obama's stimulus and bailouts, and QE?

[AZGrizFan]

We'd already be on the upswing if the fucking bailouts hadn't happened.

Thanks Obushma!

But seriously, what do you think conditions would be like without the emergency bailouts, Obama's stimulus and bailouts, and QE?

We would have already had the reset that's going to end up happening anyway.

[Chizzang]

China has major issues...
But were their people not so docile

They aren't as docile as you think- right now the government is using some good ol anti American nationalism on em

Meh...
Hasn't that been the bell cow for 70 years

[CID1990]

They aren't as docile as you think- right now the government is using some good ol anti American nationalism on em

Meh...
Hasn't that been the bell cow for 70 years

Right- but for 60 of those years their military capability was a joke. Once their blue water navy is online with another carrier they are going to stop jabbering and just take everything in the South China Sea and Sea of Japan

[dbackjon]

China gonna name them the Sam Walton and the Steve Jobs?

[Baldy]

A few years dated but it probably hasn't changed much:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/1 ... 01788.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Baldy, again:

Owned by the HuffPoop?

About as likely as you giving up underage Russian p0rn.

[Baldy]

We'd already be on the upswing if the fucking bailouts hadn't happened.

Thanks Obushma!

But seriously, what do you think conditions would be like without the emergency bailouts, Obama's stimulus and bailouts, and QE?

For someone who isn't a "fan", you sure do sound like one of his robots.

The conditions would probably be much better than it is today. A couple of trillion less debt, and maybe a million or more in the workforce. Obamacare would still be around, so the employment picture would probably still suck.

[kalm]

Thanks Obushma!

But seriously, what do you think conditions would be like without the emergency bailouts, Obama's stimulus and bailouts, and QE?

For someone who isn't a "fan", you sure do sound like one of his robots.

The conditions would probably be much better than it is today. A couple of trillion less debt, and maybe a million or more in the workforce. Obamacare would still be around, so the employment picture would probably still suck.

Bush was also responsible for some of the bailouts. The same question could be asked if McCain had won. By the way, I agree with Z here but I I'm not sure the recovery would have been that much better. And I was against both the bailouts and the stimulus.

[Baldy]

For someone who isn't a "fan", you sure do sound like one of his robots.

The conditions would probably be much better than it is today. A couple of trillion less debt, and maybe a million or more in the workforce. Obamacare would still be around, so the employment picture would probably still suck.

Bush was also responsible for some of the bailouts. The same question could be asked if McCain had won. By the way, I agree with Z here but I I'm not sure the recovery would have been that much better. And I was against both the bailouts and the stimulus.

Good stuff.

As for the bailouts, stimulus, and (especially) QE, the chickens will come home to roost in due time.
When they do, what happened in 2007/2008 will pale in comparison, and (as usual) government policy will be the culprit. Wall Street and the rest of the financial sector will get the blame from the politicians and the media because of their "greed".
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. When it collapses on itself, the Republicans (especially the Tea Party) will get the blame from the Donks and the media because they refused to "compromise", fix the problems, and wanted to deny health care to the poor poor pitiful "poor".

[kalm]

Bush was also responsible for some of the bailouts. The same question could be asked if McCain had won. By the way, I agree with Z here but I I'm not sure the recovery would have been that much better. And I was against both the bailouts and the stimulus.

Good stuff.

As for the bailouts, stimulus, and (especially) QE, the chickens will come home to roost in due time.
When they do, what happened in 2007/2008 will pale in comparison, and (as usual) government policy will be the culprit. Wall Street and the rest of the financial sector will get the blame from the politicians and the media because of their "greed".
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. When it collapses on itself, the Republicans (especially the Tea Party) will get the blame from the Donks and the media because they refused to "compromise", fix the problems, and wanted to deny health care to the poor poor pitiful "poor".

I agree that government policy shares the blame but if left to their own devices, would you honestly trust Wall Street to do what's beneficial to the greater economy? Do you really think they were innocent the last time?

[Grizalltheway]

Good stuff.

As for the bailouts, stimulus, and (especially) QE, the chickens will come home to roost in due time.
When they do, what happened in 2007/2008 will pale in comparison, and (as usual) government policy will be the culprit. Wall Street and the rest of the financial sector will get the blame from the politicians and the media because of their "greed".
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. When it collapses on itself, the Republicans (especially the Tea Party) will get the blame from the Donks and the media because they refused to "compromise", fix the problems, and wanted to deny health care to the poor poor pitiful "poor".

I agree that government policy shares the blame but if left to their own devices, would you honestly trust Wall Street to do what's beneficial to the greater economy? Do you really think they were innocent the last time?

Of course he does. Greed is good, kalm. Greed is good.

[CAA Flagship]

I agree that government policy shares the blame but if left to their own devices, would you honestly trust Wall Street to do what's beneficial to the greater economy? Do you really think they were innocent the last time?

Of course he does. Greed is good, kalm. Greed is good.

Gekko

[FCS PATRIOTS]

Yeah, those Swedes seem pretty **** miserable.

Most Americans do not want the tax burden that Swedes currently have. They are of a completely different mindset, in general. I don't begrudge Sweden their comfortably subsidized lives, but once Sweden starts having to pay for their own defense instead of having the US do it for them, their pigeons will come home to roost.

Not gonna be a problem as the Swedes have learned to live in harmony with those in the world unlike our arrogant assholes who we constantly elect who think that planes, guns and helicopters give us the right to patrol the rest of the planet. If we cut our military budget by 75% God only knows the good that our citizens could gain from that extra money that would, correct-SHOULD be, invested here at home. But ain't gonna happen when Uncle Sam has to keep flashing his dick around the world.

[CAA Flagship]

Most Americans do not want the tax burden that Swedes currently have. They are of a completely different mindset, in general. I don't begrudge Sweden their comfortably subsidized lives, but once Sweden starts having to pay for their own defense instead of having the US do it for them, their pigeons will come home to roost.

Not gonna be a problem as the Swedes have learned to live in harmony with those in the world unlike our arrogant assholes who we constantly elect who think that planes, guns and helicopters give us the right to patrol the rest of the planet. If we cut our military budget by 75% God only knows the good that our citizens could gain from that extra money that would, correct-SHOULD be, invested here at home. But ain't gonna happen when Uncle Sam has to keep flashing his dick around the world.

We are simply protecting our trade and economic interests. Which explains the number of things we DON'T get involved in (no value in it).

[Baldy]

Good stuff.

As for the bailouts, stimulus, and (especially) QE, the chickens will come home to roost in due time.
When they do, what happened in 2007/2008 will pale in comparison, and (as usual) government policy will be the culprit. Wall Street and the rest of the financial sector will get the blame from the politicians and the media because of their "greed".
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. When it collapses on itself, the Republicans (especially the Tea Party) will get the blame from the Donks and the media because they refused to "compromise", fix the problems, and wanted to deny health care to the poor poor pitiful "poor".

I agree that government policy shares the blame but if left to their own devices, would you honestly trust Wall Street to do what's beneficial to the greater economy? Do you really think they were innocent the last time?

Did I say that?
Of course I wouldn't trust Wall Street to police itself. For example, a guy broke into your house and stole your shit while a cop watched and didn't lift a finger. Who will you be more pissed off with, the criminal or the cop who sat there and let him get away with it?

[Baldy]

I agree that government policy shares the blame but if left to their own devices, would you honestly trust Wall Street to do what's beneficial to the greater economy? Do you really think they were innocent the last time?

Of course he does. Greed is good, kalm. Greed is good.

Pipe down there, Princess. The adults are talking.

If I wanted any lip out of you, I'd unzip my pants.