Who was better: 96' Marshall or 13' NDSU?

[Skjellyfetti]

I'd give it to 2013 NDSU since they beat a decent FBS team.

[BDKJMU]

Yeah. He's got to be smoking something. That Marshall team was absolutely LOADED for a I-AA team. 9 future NFL players, 5 future draft picks, including 2 1st rounders, one of them a likely HOF and a man among boys., a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

Who does NDSU have on their team likely to be drafted?
#77 might be the top OL in I-AA.
#1 may be the best corner. Think he's a 3 time All American.
I'm sure they have a couple of others, but none that are 1st rounders....

I would rather see the game than speculate. One interesting fact, NDSU has 0 FBS transfers, how many did Marshall have other than Moss? I like the fact that NDSU can find all these athletes that get passed over by Minnesota and Wisconsin, and a lesser extent Nebraska. I heard Wisconsin only went after linemen if they were 6'5" or over. Last year the Bison recruited a couple all-state WI kids that were just under 6'5" that played at smaller high schools.

[BDKJMU]

Going with Marshall. Moss, Pennington (back up), Kresser Olandis Gary etc. There is no one on NDSU's team that could run with Moss, period. NDSU is an amazing team but I don't think they get it done against that Marshall team.

Saw that Orlandis was listed as having transferred to marshall from UGA and drafted 4th rd in 99', but he's not listed anywhere in Marshall's records (top 21 career rushers, top 22 single season, never had a 100 yd game)...

BTW, I came up with Marshall's NFL players using this:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/c ... /marshall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of their Marshall bios pop up if you simply google their name, Marshall. Also went to the Marshall football media guide record booK (starting pg 32):
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/mar ... pectus.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BDKJMU]

The 1989 Georgia Southern University Team is THE BEST FCS Team of all time. PERIOD 15-0

Oops, forgot about them. So the 3 to go 15-0 would be:
89' GSU
96' Marshall
13' NDSU

That's it right?

GSU looked damn impressive that season. They didn't play a I-A, played 2 Div II (UCF was I-AA then), had 1 close (8 pt) regular season game, one close playoff win, the 37-34 NC win.
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia ... esults.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Future NFL players, I see ZERO:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/c ... georgiaso/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Big contrast to the big Marshall list, even before they moved up.

[BDKJMU]

I'd give it to 2013 NDSU since they beat a decent FBS team.

You don;t think Marshall could have beaten a decent I-A team that season? The following season, with many of the same personnell, they went 13-0 in the MAC.

Marshall their 11th regular season game was a Div II. NDSU was a BCS. If you looked at their 14 I-AA games (10 regular season and 4 playoffs), Marshall overall beat teams worse than NDSU. And wasn't the So-Con the #1 conference back then?

[BDKJMU]

They had a few down years, but before they left for the MAC, they were THE I-AA elite of the late '80s and '90s.

GSO:---- 6 seasons 85'-90'' made 5 NC games, won 4.
Marshall: 6 seasons 91'-96' made 5 NC games, won 2
YSU----: 9 seasons 91'-99' made 6 NC games, won 4. 91'-93' played Marshall in 3 straight NC games, won 2.

I think Marshall 96' was the best ever. Certainly was the most talented. YSU's best team was 94' when they went 14-0-1. But besides the tie with SFA, they had 3 close wins, 2 in the regular season, 1 a 3 point win over Div II N Alabama.

But GSO was the teams of the 80's, and YSU was the team of the 90s. Now if Marshall hadn't moved up till say after 99', played 3 more seasons of I-AA, they may very well have gone from 5 appearances, 2 NCs in the 90s, to 7 appearances, 3-4 NCs. Probably would have won it in 97' instead of YSU, and they would be the team of the 90s. But since they moved up in 97' YSU got 2 more NCs 97'-99' YSU has claim to the I-AA team of the decade in the 90s'. But you have to put an asterisk there because Tressel cheated...

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They had a few down years, but before they left for the MAC, they were THE I-AA elite of the late '80s and '90s.

GSO:---- 6 seasons 85'-90'' made 5 NC games, won 4.
Marshall: 6 seasons 91'-96' made 5 NC games, won 2
YSU----: 9 seasons 91'-99' made 6 NC games, won 4. 91'-93' played Marshall in 3 straight NC games, won 2.

I think Marshall 96' was the best ever. Certainly was the most talented. YSU's best team was 94' when they went 14-0-1. But besides the tie with SFA, they had 3 close wins, 2 in the regular season, 1
But GSO was the teams of the 80's, and YSU was the team of the 90s. Now if Marshall hadn't moved up till say after 99', played 3 more seasons of I-AA, they may very well have gone from 5 appearances, 2 NCs in the 90s, to 7 appearances, 3-4 NCs. Probably would have won it in 97' instead of YSU, and they would be the team of a 3 point win over Div II N Alabama.
the 90s. But since they moved up in 97' YSU got 2 more NCs 97'-99' YSU has claim to the I-AA team of the decade in the 90s'. But you have to put an asterisk there because Tressel cheated...

That North Alabama team was a machine. I think they got caught 'cheating' or something to that effect. That team ran the veer/TO and probably would have beaten most 1-AA teams that year.

[HenZoneNation]

I have to disagree with a few of these observations, the first being that anyone could have stopped Randy Moss at any level especially the FCS. All-Pro DB’s in the NFL couldn’t stop him. He was a freak and like the Vikings did his first years in the league all Marshall had to do was throw the ball in the air high and deep and it would be over every single time. Marshall is a different ball game than NDSU and App State. They were never meant for our ranks and never planned on staying.
I loved watching NDSU play. I thought they were so well coached, I thought their players all knew their roles and responsibilities, they rarely seemed out of position, and above all they never seemed to flinch. You didn’t see them making stupid mistakes or costly penalties. That absolutely killed Towson. I think the score is misleading in some ways because until that blocked field goal, I thought Towson looked better than NDSU. They certainly seemed up to the task on defense and their offense, even with the stupid penalties, was gaining yards. After that blocked field goal and the subsequent INT that led to the 21-7 half time lead, you saw the life sucked out of them. The second half was over before it even started. I wasn’t blown away by the talent of NDSU. They are a VERY good football team but not a team loaded with superstars. I don’t see many guys making a living on Sundays on that roster. The unique thing I saw with this team that absolutely separated them from Towson was they just don’t have many weaknesses. It seemed like everybody on the field was just really, really solid in EVERY aspect of the game; especially on Special Teams. NDSU is just textbook know what you do well and know what the other team does poorly and exploit it. They were a pleasure to watch. I think Wyoming landed themselves a hell of a coach

[GannonFan]

Randy Moss was a beast - unstoppable at any level at that time. Give the nod to the '96 Marshall team, pretty easily even.

[93henfan]

Randy Moss was a beast - unstoppable at any level at that time. Give the nod to the '96 Marshall team, pretty easily even.

I'm thinking anyone not picking the 96 Marshall squad never saw the 96 Marshall squad play.

[Skjellyfetti]

You don;t think Marshall could have beaten a decent I-A team that season?

They didn't though.

The FBS game is what disqualifies 2006 App from the "greatest team ever" discussions. We lost a close game to NC State -- and Armanti didn't start.

Could we have beaten NC State with Armanti starting? Maybe... but, who knows?

Could Marshall have beaten a decent I-A team? Maybe... but, who knows?

[HenZoneNation]

In the spirit of a good debate I'll disagree with you. First I would like to add that I think that this NDSU Senior class and the '07 ASU Seniors are by the far the best recruiting classes I have ever seen and are the reasons why both programs won 3 straight NC's. I would have to give a slight advantage to ASU in regards to talent and a small edge to NDSU in regards to being coached with no disrespect to coach Moore at all.

That being said neither team would have beaten the '03 UD squad that absolutely steam rolled through the playoffs. We out scored our opponents 149-23 in the playoffs. Though neither Hall nor Johnson (both were drafted that year) won the Payton or Buchanan they were clearly both the best Offensive and Defensive players that year. There isn't a player on either NDSU or '06 ASU who impacted a game from the defensive standpoint the way Johnson did, not by a mile. AE was a better college QB than Hall, but their numbers were comparable during AE's freshmen year. Factor in Mike Adams who has collected over 500 tackles during his NFL career and I'd put that UD squad ahead of either of these teams. Where NDSU and ASU can hang their hats though is on the longevity and those two great classes. Winning back to back is near impossible....back to back to back. LEGENDARY. Gonna Miss ASU next year. Good luck.

[Mvemjsunpx]

I actually think the second-best team ever may have been '96 Montana, but they unfortunately had to play the first-best team in the championship.

[Bronco]

I actually think the second-best team ever may have been '96 Montana, but they unfortunately had to play the first-best team in the championship.

on their turf two years in a row

[GannonFan]

Randy Moss was a beast - unstoppable at any level at that time. Give the nod to the '96 Marshall team, pretty easily even.

I'm thinking anyone not picking the 96 Marshall squad never saw the 96 Marshall squad play.

Agreed.

And another poster was saying the '96 Montana team should be up there. Didn't Dickinson graduate in '95? The '95 Montana team was great. I also would throw into the mix the '86 Georgia Southern team (I thought they were better than the crew that came a few years later) and the '03 Delaware team. But I think they all are fighting for second best after that '96 Marshall team, almost entirely because of the Moss factor. He was Mossy.

[Grizalltheway]

I'm thinking anyone not picking the 96 Marshall squad never saw the 96 Marshall squad play.

Agreed.

And another poster was saying the '96 Montana team should be up there. Didn't Dickinson graduate in '95? The '95 Montana team was great. I also would throw into the mix the '86 Georgia Southern team (I thought they were better than the crew that came a few years later) and the '03 Delaware team. But I think they all are fighting for second best after that '96 Marshall team, almost entirely because of the Moss factor. He was Mossy.

He did, but Brian Ah Yat was no slouch himself, and that team was 14-0 going into the NC game. As was mentioned, their average margin of victory was 44-14.

[93henfan]

Agreed.

And another poster was saying the '96 Montana team should be up there. Didn't Dickinson graduate in '95? The '95 Montana team was great. I also would throw into the mix the '86 Georgia Southern team (I thought they were better than the crew that came a few years later) and the '03 Delaware team. But I think they all are fighting for second best after that '96 Marshall team, almost entirely because of the Moss factor. He was Mossy.

He did, but Brian Ah Yat was no slouch himself, and that team was 14-0 going into the NC game. As was mentioned, their average margin of victory was 44-14.

Didn't Boise St and Idaho both leave after the '95 season (preceded by Nevada a few years prior)? Those teams were sort of Montana's only competition at the time in the Big Sky other than maybe NAU, no?

[Gil Dobie]

In the FWIW category, Sagarin from each season.


2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

[93henfan]

In the FWIW category, Sagarin from each season.


2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

Sagarin goes coo coo for Coco Puffs over FBS victories, so I wouldn't lend this methodology much credence. In addition, as mentioned a couple of posts up, Montana's SOS plummeted when Boise St and Idaho jetted.

Sagarin also has 2003 Delaware above both Montana and GA Southern in the above list, which is where I would have them as well. I'd go, by my eyeball test actually watching the teams:

96 Marshall
03 Delaware
96 Montana
99 Georgia Southern
13 NDSU

Not trying to troll. Just what I saw. 13 NDSU was the best coached of all of them, FWIW.

[mrklean]

In the FWIW category, Sagarin from each season.


2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

Sagarin goes coo coo for Coco Puffs over FBS victories, so I wouldn't lend this methodology much credence. In addition, as mentioned a couple of posts up, Montana's SOS plummeted when Boise St and Idaho jetted.

LIke I said before, the 89 was the best Team at GSU

[Gil Dobie]

In the FWIW category, Sagarin from each season.


2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

Sagarin goes coo coo for Coco Puffs over FBS victories, so I wouldn't lend this methodology much credence. In addition, as mentioned a couple of posts up, Montana's SOS plummeted when Boise St and Idaho jetted.

Sagarin also has 2003 Delaware above both Montana and GA Southern in the above list, which is where I would have them as well. I'd go, by my eyeball test actually watching the teams:

96 Marshall
03 Delaware
96 Montana
99 Georgia Southern
13 NDSU

Not trying to troll. Just what I saw. 13 NDSU was the best coached of all of them, FWIW.

Like I said, FWIW. No one will ever know. I only researched the most mentioned teams in this thread. Is there a list of teams with the highest computer rankings?

[bluehenbillk]

It's really hard to say with a 17 year difference between the two, but I'd have to say Marshall was better.

[JohnStOnge]

It's really hard to say with a 17 year difference between the two, but I'd have to say Marshall was better.

One thing you can say objectively regardless is that they were certainly more dominant with respect to FCS teams relative to their time. That's because North Dakota State did have one game against another FCS team that they struggled to win. In fact their winning TD drop was stopped on a third down play but a Northern Iowa guy was called for illegal hands to the face to keep the drive alive. Would they have won anyway without that play? We don't know. But it certainly helped them a LOT. They'd have had to punt the ball back to UNI with time running low without that penalty. As it is they won by 1 point.

Nobody challenged that 1996 Marshall team. They never won a game by fewer than 14 points.

There was no indication that any I-AA team in 1996 had a reasonable shot to beat Marshall if they played them; especially when you look at what they did to that great Montana team. But we got an actual example of a case in 2013 when a FCS team had a real shot to beat North Dakota State and had to kind of...as I said earlier...snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in order to avoid doing it.

And of course Marshall beat it's 1996 I-AA opponents by a slightly bigger margin, on average, than 2013 North Dakota State beat its FCS opponents (29.4 to 27.9). I think you pretty much have to say that the results taken in toto suggest there was more "separation" between the 1996 Marshall team and the rest of I-AA than there was between the 2013 North Dakota State team and the rest of FCS.

And, again, I really do believe it likely that if that 1996 Marshall team hadn't been there that 1996 Montana team would've walked all over whoever they played in the championship game just like they walked all over everybody else they met in the playoffs that year.

[Mvemjsunpx]

He did, but Brian Ah Yat was no slouch himself, and that team was 14-0 going into the NC game. As was mentioned, their average margin of victory was 44-14.

Didn't Boise St and Idaho both leave after the '95 season (preceded by Nevada a few years prior)? Those teams were sort of Montana's only competition at the time in the Big Sky other than maybe NAU, no?

True, Montana's conference schedule in '95 was stronger (Idaho somehow got an at-large at 6-4 ). However, UM's 1995 non-conference was a joke: Wazzu and 3 non-DIs. The 1996 team did beat Oregon State (at the end of their long doldrums) by 3 touchdowns and also waxed their first 3 playoff opponents, including a 70-7 win over Troy (State) in the semis.

[BDKJMU]

In the FWIW category, Sagarin from each season.


2013 NDSU #17 86.38 ranking
1996 Marshall #21 85.12 ranking
1996 Montana #45 75.80 ranking
1999 Georgia Southern #46 74.36 ranking

Sagarin goes coo coo for Coco Puffs over FBS victories, so I wouldn't lend this methodology much credence. In addition, as mentioned a couple of posts up, Montana's SOS plummeted when Boise St and Idaho jetted.

Sagarin also has 2003 Delaware above both Montana and GA Southern in the above list, which is where I would have them as well. I'd go, by my eyeball test actually watching the teams:

96 Marshall
03 Delaware
96 Montana
99 Georgia Southern
13 NDSU

Not trying to troll. Just what I saw. 13 NDSU was the best coached of all of them, FWIW.

You mean 89' Ga Southern? 89' GSU was 15-0, 99' was 13-2. Both won the NC...