America was founded on reason

[93henfan]

George Washington, and perhaps the other Masonic founding fathers, believed in a deity (Great Architect of the Universe, the 'G' in Freemasonry); not necessarily a Christian God.

Just throwing that out there. I wasn't there, and neither were any of you, but I'd wager that reason was more important to them than religion.



Laying the cornerstone of the US Capital:

[kalm]

George Washington, and perhaps the other Masonic founding fathers, believed in a deity (Great Architect of the Universe, the 'G' in Freemasonry); not necessarily a Christian God.

Just throwing that out there. I wasn't there, and neither were any of you, but I'd wager that reason was more important to them than religion.



Laying the cornerstone of the US Capital:

Spanos invitation.

[93henfan]

Spanos invitation.

Somebody has to keep these threads going.

[Chizzang]

George Washington, and perhaps the other Masonic founding fathers, believed in a deity (Great Architect of the Universe, the 'G' in Freemasonry); not necessarily a Christian God.

Just throwing that out there. I wasn't there, and neither were any of you, but I'd wager that reason was more important to them than religion.

You've just made a point far to delicate (apparently) for a Christian to grasp...

You're going to need to dumb that way down

[∞∞∞]

More than 235 years later, does it matter what America was founded on? Almost all aspects of our lives are different from the first Americans. The philosophies that drive civilizations are fluid and evolving, so this argument seems pointless if we're trying to justify our current gov't based on what the founding fathers thought. It's an interesting discussion from a purely historic perspective, but that's about it.

[93henfan]

More than 235 years later, does it matter what America was founded on? Almost all aspects of our lives are different from the first Americans. The philosophies that drive civilizations are fluid and evolving, so this argument seems pointless if we're trying to justify our current gov't based on what the founding fathers thought. It's an interesting discussion from a purely historic perspective, but that's about it.

Hence why the FF wrote the US Constitution as an amendable document.

Fucking liberals.

[GannonFan]

If pure virgins gave birth more often, or if lepers were suddenly healed, or if dead men suddenly woke up and then rose into the heavens in front of people, I might believe. But common sense tells me that isn't possible.

But that doesn't mean anything that your position is more logical or makes more common sense than someone else's belief in God. Since the existence of God, no matter what you believe, is beyond our knowledge presently, logic by itself cannot prove or disprove God either. Logic needs something to be based in for it to work and in this case, it doesn't have it.

[Ibanez]

If pure virgins gave birth more often, or if lepers were suddenly healed, or if dead men suddenly woke up and then rose into the heavens in front of people, I might believe. But common sense tells me that isn't possible.

But that doesn't mean anything that your position is more logical or makes more common sense than someone else's belief in God. Since the existence of God, no matter what you believe, is beyond our knowledge presently, logic by itself cannot prove or disprove God either. Logic needs something to be based in for it to work and in this case, it doesn't have it.

Logic based on natural science and common sense proves that a woman, circa 7 b.c, must have sex in order to become pregnant. Today, a virgin can give birth due to in vitro fertilization.

I never said a word on proving the existence of God. I never doubted it. Using Logic, based on understanding of science and how the world works, many things in the Bible just are not possible.

[kalm]

But that doesn't mean anything that your position is more logical or makes more common sense than someone else's belief in God. Since the existence of God, no matter what you believe, is beyond our knowledge presently, logic by itself cannot prove or disprove God either. Logic needs something to be based in for it to work and in this case, it doesn't have it.

Logic based on natural science and common sense proves that a woman, circa 7 b.c, must have sex in order to become pregnant. Today, a virgin can give birth due to in vitro fertilization.

I never said a word on proving the existence of God. I never doubted it. Using Logic, based on understanding of science and how the world works, many things in the Bible just are not possible.

It is much more reasonable and logical to accept things that can be observed and/or repeated.

[Ibanez]

Logic based on natural science and common sense proves that a woman, circa 7 b.c, must have sex in order to become pregnant. Today, a virgin can give birth due to in vitro fertilization.

I never said a word on proving the existence of God. I never doubted it. Using Logic, based on understanding of science and how the world works, many things in the Bible just are not possible.

It is much more reasonable and logical to accept things that can be observed and/or repeated.

It has nothing to do with belief or faith. It's common sense. God given reasoning and common sense.

[GannonFan]

Logic based on natural science and common sense proves that a woman, circa 7 b.c, must have sex in order to become pregnant. Today, a virgin can give birth due to in vitro fertilization.

I never said a word on proving the existence of God. I never doubted it. Using Logic, based on understanding of science and how the world works, many things in the Bible just are not possible.

It is much more reasonable and logical to accept things that can be observed and/or repeated.

It is more likely, but again, reason and logic can't prove or disprove God so, therefore, they also can't prove or disprove whatever God may have done. If you don't want to believe in a God, that's fine, but let's not pretend that logic and reason, or even common sense, preclude God or his actions.

[kalm]

It is much more reasonable and logical to accept things that can be observed and/or repeated.

It is more likely, but again, reason and logic can't prove or disprove God so, therefore, they also can't prove or disprove whatever God may have done. If you don't want to believe in a God, that's fine, but let's not pretend that logic and reason, or even common sense, preclude God or his actions.

They may or may not...and I'm not an atheist.

The nice thing about reason and logic is that they can be agreed upon much of the time by honest thinking and open minded Chrisitians, Buddhists, Muslims, agnostics, and atheists. That's why Jefferson spoke of "natures god" and the term creator was used instead of Jesus. Reason and logic are not the sole possession of Christians, and we were not founded on Christianity.

[GannonFan]

It is more likely, but again, reason and logic can't prove or disprove God so, therefore, they also can't prove or disprove whatever God may have done. If you don't want to believe in a God, that's fine, but let's not pretend that logic and reason, or even common sense, preclude God or his actions.

They may or may not...and I'm not an atheist.

The nice thing about reason and logic is that they can be agreed upon much of the time by honest thinking and open minded Chrisitians, Buddhists, Muslims, agnostics, and atheists. That's why Jefferson spoke of "natures god" and the term creator was used instead of Jesus. Reason and logic are not the sole possession of Christians, and we were not founded on Christianity.

Is anyone saying that Christians have the sole possession of reason and logic? Heck, if anything, people on this thread say that reason and logic are incompatible with Christianity so I'm unsure why you are debating the way you are.

As to what this nation was founded on, well, it was founded on a whole bunch of things, and I'm sure Christianity was one piece of that (especially since the "founding" of this country was far more than just the founding of the goverment). I think it's silly to belive that we were founded solely on Christianity, just like it's silly to get so worked up trying to debate the simpletons who really believe it was founded solely that way.

[kalm]

They may or may not...and I'm not an atheist.

The nice thing about reason and logic is that they can be agreed upon much of the time by honest thinking and open minded Chrisitians, Buddhists, Muslims, agnostics, and atheists. That's why Jefferson spoke of "natures god" and the term creator was used instead of Jesus. Reason and logic are not the sole possession of Christians, and we were not founded on Christianity.

Is anyone saying that Christians have the sole possession of reason and logic? Heck, if anything, people on this thread say that reason and logic are incompatible with Christianity so I'm unsure why you are debating the way you are.

As to what this nation was founded on, well, it was founded on a whole bunch of things, and I'm sure Christianity was one piece of that (especially since the "founding" of this country was far more than just the founding of the goverment). I think it's silly to belive that we were founded solely on Christianity, just like it's silly to get so worked up trying to debate the simpletons who really believe it was founded solely that way.

That's who I was trolling for...fun hater.

[Ibanez]

They may or may not...and I'm not an atheist.

The nice thing about reason and logic is that they can be agreed upon much of the time by honest thinking and open minded Chrisitians, Buddhists, Muslims, agnostics, and atheists. That's why Jefferson spoke of "natures god" and the term creator was used instead of Jesus. Reason and logic are not the sole possession of Christians, and we were not founded on Christianity.

Is anyone saying that Christians have the sole possession of reason and logic? Heck, if anything, people on this thread say that reason and logic are incompatible with Christianity so I'm unsure why you are debating the way you are.

As to what this nation was founded on, well, it was founded on a whole bunch of things, and I'm sure Christianity was one piece of that (especially since the "founding" of this country was far more than just the founding of the goverment). I think it's silly to belive that we were founded solely on Christianity, just like it's silly to get so worked up trying to debate the simpletons who really believe it was founded solely that way.

Nobody is saying Christians have a monopoly on reason and logic, or the contrary. From my perspective, it is not possible to prove the existence of God. None of the 5 senses can detect it. However, there is a natural feeling that I possess that leads to me to believe in a supreme being.

I feel this argument is much like the argument for the South's decision to secede (states right vs slavery when slavery was viewed as a states right.)

Plain and simple, the United States of America was founded by men who practiced a variety of Christian religions from Catholicism to Deism and Lutheranism, however these men did not create a theocracy. They created a Republic. To say we're a Christian Nation because we're founded by Christians is wrong. We're a Nation founded by Christians.

[CID1990]

Jesus this is a dumb thread.

[JoltinJoe]

The STUPID on this thread is reaching hilarious levels...

Self-fulfillment.

[BlueHen86]

Jesus this is a dumb thread.

This thread wasn't founded on reason.

[93henfan]

Jesus this is a dumb thread.

It will be if our friend takes the bait.

SPANDOS! FREEMASONRY!! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?!?!?!?!


HOLY SHIT!!! LOOK AT THIS!!!!!

[mrklean]

Jesus this is a dumb thread.

It will be if our friend takes the bait.

SPANDOS! FREEMASONRY!! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?!?!?!?!


HOLY ****!!! LOOK AT THIS!!!!!

Oh shit he come the Freemason taking over the word shit How come a bunch of men who can't agree weither to have Sweet Tea or Lemondaid at the monthly lunchin have a big azz plot to take over the world......... I see this every meeting.......

[CID1990]

It will be if our friend takes the bait.

SPANDOS! FREEMASONRY!! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?!?!?!?!


HOLY ****!!! LOOK AT THIS!!!!!

Oh **** he come the Freemason taking over the word **** How come a bunch of men who can't agree weither to have Sweet Tea or Lemondaid at the monthly lunchin have a big azz plot to take over the world......... I see this every meeting.......

That's Black Masons, Klean.

The difference between Masons and Black Masons is like the difference between C-SPAN and the WB.

[mrklean]

Oh **** he come the Freemason taking over the word **** How come a bunch of men who can't agree weither to have Sweet Tea or Lemondaid at the monthly lunchin have a big azz plot to take over the world......... I see this every meeting.......

That's Black Masons, Klean.

The difference between Masons and Black Masons is like the difference between C-SPAN and the WB.

Their is no black or white mason. Only a mason. But then again, you graduated from El Cid, thats all you fucking know

[CID1990]

That's Black Masons, Klean.

The difference between Masons and Black Masons is like the difference between C-SPAN and the WB.

Their is no black or white mason. Only a mason. But then again, you graduated from El Cid, thats all you **** know

Oh no, Klean. That's what you THINK.

Here's a typical minutes from my Masonic meetinsg:

1900 Opening prayer

1910 Dinner

1945 Latest discussion on the struggle for world domination

2000 Latest discussion on keeping the Black Masons thinking we're all the same and in the dark so they'll just argue about sweet tea and lemonade

2030 Latest discussion on how to pull off the next 9/11 (in coordination with our buddies over at Bohemian Grove)

2045 Presentation: Masonic symbology as a way to increase the value of new buildings and monuments and keep the nuts busy

2100 Closing prayer

[mrklean]

Their is no black or white mason. Only a mason. But then again, you graduated from El Cid, thats all you **** know

Oh no, Klean. That's what you THINK.

Here's a typical minutes from my Masonic meetinsg:

1900 Opening prayer

1910 Dinner

1945 Latest discussion on the struggle for world domination

2000 Latest discussion on keeping the Black Masons thinking we're all the same and in the dark so they'll just argue about sweet tea and lemonade

2030 Latest discussion on how to pull off the next 9/11 (in coordination with our buddies over at Bohemian Grove)

2045 Presentation: Masonic symbology as a way to increase the value of new buildings and monuments and keep the nuts busy

2100 Closing prayer

May be thats in the Deep South. But truth Masonic Brotherhood is all over the world. I have been in meetings with men of all colors and faiths, which is beautiful about the Masonic Order.

[Ibanez]

Oh no, Klean. That's what you THINK.

Here's a typical minutes from my Masonic meetinsg:

1900 Opening prayer

1910 Dinner

1945 Latest discussion on the struggle for world domination

2000 Latest discussion on keeping the Black Masons thinking we're all the same and in the dark so they'll just argue about sweet tea and lemonade

2030 Latest discussion on how to pull off the next 9/11 (in coordination with our buddies over at Bohemian Grove)

2045 Presentation: Masonic symbology as a way to increase the value of new buildings and monuments and keep the nuts busy

2100 Closing prayer

May be thats in the Deep South. But truth Masonic Brotherhood is all over the world. I have been in meetings with men of all colors and faiths, which is beautiful about the Masonic Order.

You know klean, he is joking.