Nelson Mandela has left the building...

[GannonFan]

I'm not on the opposite side of Mandela here, but murder is murder. Don't you draw a line at taking someone's life when fighting for a "cause"? The only time that taking someone's life can be remotely acceptable is if it comes down to YOUR life or HIS life. I don't know the particulars of his antics, but you would have to build a pretty strong case of life-threatening self-defense for me to forget about someone taking lives.

Ray Lewis should be in jail too.

Fighting to end apartheid and crushing oppression, not to mention just out and out state murder as what happened in the Sharpesville massacre, is now reduced to the distinction of "antics"?

Regardless, Mandela was also a changed man, as he himself said, after three decades in prison. He preached and practiced reconciliation and living together in peace, and then he convinced the nation to follow the same when he sheperded them from the end of apartheid to peaceful democracy. You have to look at the whole picture to judge him.

[BlueHen86]

A thug who became an icon that everybody is supposed to fawn over. The guy wasn't in prison because he "opposed apartheid." He was in prison because he was a violent revolutionary. He was brutal and ruthless. Him winning the "Peace Prize" was like Atilla the Hun winning it. If you take an "ends justify means" attitude you can say he was a hero. But this guy was no saint. He may have served a purpose. But he was no "great man."

LOL - and you probably consider Washington, Jefferson etc terrorists too.

It was okay when they did it, they were white.

[Chizzang]

A thug who became an icon that everybody is supposed to fawn over. The guy wasn't in prison because he "opposed apartheid." He was in prison because he was a violent revolutionary. He was brutal and ruthless. Him winning the "Peace Prize" was like Atilla the Hun winning it. If you take an "ends justify means" attitude you can say he was a hero. But this guy was no saint. He may have served a purpose. But he was no "great man."

This ^ made me laugh hard...
For nothing other than the "he was no great man" conclusion sentence

John What would you know about a great man..?
What are you specific qualifications for defining greatness, because as far as I can tell here you defend pedophiles and murderous drunk drivers and cop killers

Yet Mandela somehow doesn't quite make the grade

[JohnStOnge]

John What would you know about a great man..?

I suppose it's subjective. If it's defined by having a big impact then Joseph Stalin was a great man. But someone who facilitates atrocities is excluded then you'd exclude Joseph Stalin. And you'd exclude Nelson Mandela too.

People say he was a changed man. I don't think so. After some of the African National Congress atrocities were admitted during the "reconciliation" process Nelson Mandela said they were inexcusable right after he made an excuse by saying they "…must be understood in the context in which they occurred."

And he blamed all the atrocities on the "little guys" acting on their own without the ANC leadership knowing about it. Right.

He was imprisoned for planning to bomb things and he admitted he was planing to bomb things. I think anybody who thinks he ever "evolved" into someone who wouldn't make the same plans given the same circumstances is giving him an awful lot of benefit of the doubt.

[JohnStOnge]

Nelson Mandela is hailed as a big hero and a great man because he became the face of a cause that became fashionable to adopt. I remember writing a letter to the editor back in the day about how the West was engaging in selective indignation when it came to South Africa. There were horribly oppressive governments all over the world at the time. I think I recall referring to us not seeming to be too bothered by Saddam Hussein even though he was gassing civilians. We weren't bothered by the oppression going on in China at the time. I noted that by comparison not a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the South African government. In fact, most of the innocent deaths associated with the South African situation were at the hands of the African National Congress. Back then I looked all that stuff up to put in my letter.

The indignation was there because the situation involved Whites dominating Blacks. We didn't care if, say, one Black African tribe in another African country was slaughtering thousands or tens of thousands of members of another Black African tribe. It didn't register because it wasn't in the fashionable "I'm for RACIAL justice" wheelhouse. Oh sure, people calling for the whole world to do something about South Africa would SAY they cared about other situations if asked. But it was obvious that those other situations weren't a high priority with them.

And Nelson Mandella, a terrorist by any reasonable standard by which we define terrorists today, was a convenient face to make a fashionable cause icon out of.

[mrklean]

Nelson Mandela is hailed as a big hero and a great man because he became the face of a cause that became fashionable to adopt. I remember writing a letter to the editor back in the day about how the West was engaging in selective indignation when it came to South Africa. There were horribly oppressive governments all over the world at the time. I think I recall referring to us not seeming to be too bothered by Saddam Hussein even though he was gassing civilians. We weren't bothered by the oppression going on in China at the time. I noted that by comparison not a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the South African government. In fact, most of the innocent deaths associated with the South African situation were at the hands of the African National Congress. Back then I looked all that stuff up to put in my letter.

The indignation was there because the situation involved Whites dominating Blacks. We didn't care if, say, one Black African tribe in another African country was slaughtering thousands or tens of thousands of members of another Black African tribe. It didn't register because it wasn't in the fashionable "I'm for RACIAL justice" wheelhouse. Oh sure, people calling for the whole world to do something about South Africa would SAY they cared about other situations if asked. But it was obvious that those other situations weren't a high priority with them.

And Nelson Mandella, a terrorist by any reasonable standard by which we define terrorists today, was a convenient face to make a fashionable cause icon out of.

[Chizzang]

Nelson Mandela is hailed as a big hero and a great man because he became the face of a cause that became fashionable to adopt. I remember writing a letter to the editor back in the day about how the West was engaging in selective indignation when it came to South Africa. There were horribly oppressive governments all over the world at the time. I think I recall referring to us not seeming to be too bothered by Saddam Hussein even though he was gassing civilians. We weren't bothered by the oppression going on in China at the time. I noted that by comparison not a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the South African government. In fact, most of the innocent deaths associated with the South African situation were at the hands of the African National Congress. Back then I looked all that stuff up to put in my letter.

The indignation was there because the situation involved Whites dominating Blacks. We didn't care if, say, one Black African tribe in another African country was slaughtering thousands or tens of thousands of members of another Black African tribe. It didn't register because it wasn't in the fashionable "I'm for RACIAL justice" wheelhouse. Oh sure, people calling for the whole world to do something about South Africa would SAY they cared about other situations if asked. But it was obvious that those other situations weren't a high priority with them.

And Nelson Mandella, a terrorist by any reasonable standard by which we define terrorists today, was a convenient face to make a fashionable cause icon out of.

So John... Based on all this ^
Using comparative data wouldn't you be forced to then admit America is a terrorist nation..?

[mrklean]

Nelson Mandela is hailed as a big hero and a great man because he became the face of a cause that became fashionable to adopt. I remember writing a letter to the editor back in the day about how the West was engaging in selective indignation when it came to South Africa. There were horribly oppressive governments all over the world at the time. I think I recall referring to us not seeming to be too bothered by Saddam Hussein even though he was gassing civilians. We weren't bothered by the oppression going on in China at the time. I noted that by comparison not a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the South African government. In fact, most of the innocent deaths associated with the South African situation were at the hands of the African National Congress. Back then I looked all that stuff up to put in my letter.

The indignation was there because the situation involved Whites dominating Blacks. We didn't care if, say, one Black African tribe in another African country was slaughtering thousands or tens of thousands of members of another Black African tribe. It didn't register because it wasn't in the fashionable "I'm for RACIAL justice" wheelhouse. Oh sure, people calling for the whole world to do something about South Africa would SAY they cared about other situations if asked. But it was obvious that those other situations weren't a high priority with them.

And Nelson Mandella, a terrorist by any reasonable standard by which we define terrorists today, was a convenient face to make a fashionable cause icon out of.

So John... Based on all this ^
Using comparative data wouldn't you be forced to then admit America is a terrorist nation..?

BOOM!!!!!!!

[CAA Flagship]

There are:
A) good people that do good things
B) bad people that do bad things
C) good people that do bad things
D) bad people that do good things

How would you classify Mandela?

[Skjellyfetti]

That's just retarded.

No one is wholly A.

Everyone is a mixture of good and bad. And, Mandela had way more good in him than any of us could ever hope to in our lives. Jmo.

[Skjellyfetti]

[CAA Flagship]

That's just retarded.

No one is wholly A.

Everyone is a mixture of good and bad. And, Mandela had way more good in him than any of us could ever hope to in our lives. Jmo.

OK. Then choose C.

These choices are generalizations. A person is either "generally" good or bad. I like to believe that an overwhelming majority are good. And they will do good and bad things. Most people are A and C. Many people in prison, are B and D, along with Oakland Raider fans, gangs, Taliban, Democrats, Miley Cyrus, gangs, Hitler, insurance companies, racists, soccer hooligans, and whoever invented that plastic packaging that is impossible to open with your bare hands.

The point here is that Mandela was probably labeled as B at one time. Now he is labeled as A.
He clearly did bad things. He clearly did good things too. Was he a good person or a bad person?

[BDKJMU]

"SC Sheriff Refuses To Honor Mandela Because He Was “Not American”

PICKENS, S.C. (AP) — Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said he won’t lower the flag outside his sheriff’s office to half-staff to honor Nelson Mandela because the South African civil rights leader was not a United States citizen.....

....Clark pointed out Obama’s order was a proclamation and does not have the force of law. He said he would have made the same decision if he was in office in 2005, when President George W. Bush ordered flags flown at half-staff after the death of Pope John Paul II.

Clark became sheriff this year......"
http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/12/0 ... r-mandela/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's right...

[D1A]

He was brutal and ruthless in opposing an abhorrent social system. Should he just have asked nicely for whitie to treat them like human beings?

Bombing government facilities, probably killing innocents.

Yes, he was a terrorist, if people want to look away from that so be it but he is being portrayed as a saint in the media and he was far from it.

[CitadelGrad]

He was brutal and ruthless in opposing an abhorrent social system. Should he just have asked nicely for whitie to treat them like human beings?

Bombing government facilities, probably killing innocents.

Not probably. A number of his innocent victims were children.

[CitadelGrad]

Either you are just trolling or incredibly stupid. I'll go with the latter.

[CitadelGrad]

Nelson Mandela is hailed as a big hero and a great man because he became the face of a cause that became fashionable to adopt. I remember writing a letter to the editor back in the day about how the West was engaging in selective indignation when it came to South Africa. There were horribly oppressive governments all over the world at the time. I think I recall referring to us not seeming to be too bothered by Saddam Hussein even though he was gassing civilians. We weren't bothered by the oppression going on in China at the time. I noted that by comparison not a lot of innocent people died at the hands of the South African government. In fact, most of the innocent deaths associated with the South African situation were at the hands of the African National Congress. Back then I looked all that stuff up to put in my letter.

The indignation was there because the situation involved Whites dominating Blacks. We didn't care if, say, one Black African tribe in another African country was slaughtering thousands or tens of thousands of members of another Black African tribe. It didn't register because it wasn't in the fashionable "I'm for RACIAL justice" wheelhouse. Oh sure, people calling for the whole world to do something about South Africa would SAY they cared about other situations if asked. But it was obvious that those other situations weren't a high priority with them.

And Nelson Mandella, a terrorist by any reasonable standard by which we define terrorists today, was a convenient face to make a fashionable cause icon out of.

So John... Based on all this ^
Using comparative data wouldn't you be forced to then admit America is a terrorist nation..?

Not a terrorist nation, but a nation with a terrorist government.

[dbackjon]

Boom!


Also, supported the Contra terrorists, gave the Muslins the idea that Americans were weak when he turned tail after allowing 241 American servicemen to be killed.

[Cap'n Cat]

History of Conk actions against Mandela and for the apartheid regime:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/r ... on-mandela" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



White Conks.

[dbackjon]

"SC Sheriff Refuses To Honor Mandela Because He Was “Not American”

PICKENS, S.C. (AP) — Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said he won’t lower the flag outside his sheriff’s office to half-staff to honor Nelson Mandela because the South African civil rights leader was not a United States citizen.....

....Clark pointed out Obama’s order was a proclamation and does not have the force of law. He said he would have made the same decision if he was in office in 2005, when President George W. Bush ordered flags flown at half-staff after the death of Pope John Paul II.

Clark became sheriff this year......"
http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/12/0 ... r-mandela/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's right...

He's a moron unfit to wear a uniform or have power to arrest people

[Cap'n Cat]

[D1B]

Conks are awefully quiet.

[CAA Flagship]

Conks are awefully quiet.

Shhh. We're counting our money.

one million four hundred fifty two thousand six hundred forty one
one million four hundred fifty two thousand six hundred forty two
one million four hundred fifty two thousand six hundred forty three........

[Ibanez]

Either you are just trolling or incredibly stupid. I'll go with the latter.

We did give the Afghani's money and weapons to fight the Soviets.

Tom Hanks made a movie out of it, it has to be true.

[Skjellyfetti]

"These men are the moral equivalent of America's founding fathers."
- Ronald Reagan, 1985