Nelson Mandela has left the building...

[Gil Dobie]

Whoa Nellie!!!!!!!.................RIP Mr. Mandela

[mrklean]

Whoa Nellie!!!!!!!.................RIP Mr. Mandela

TOUCHDOWN OOOOOOOOklahoma!!!

[CID1990]

I don't know how to feel about Nelson Mandela. Other than to say I probably would have acted in the same way had I been in the same position. Minus the burning tires, though.

[GannonFan]

A thug who became an icon that everybody is supposed to fawn over. The guy wasn't in prison because he "opposed apartheid." He was in prison because he was a violent revolutionary. He was brutal and ruthless. Him winning the "Peace Prize" was like Atilla the Hun winning it. If you take an "ends justify means" attitude you can say he was a hero. But this guy was no saint. He may have served a purpose. But he was no "great man."

He was a Freedom Fighter. The same could be said about George Washington

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

[D1B]

He was a Freedom Fighter. The same could be said about George Washington

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

Nice one Gannon.

Notice all the fucks who hate him are conks - the same conks who we'll be seeing next season on Doomsday Preppers with all their guns and canned food and shit, ready to murder the tyranny....

Racists.

[D1B]

I don't know how to feel about Nelson Mandela. Other than to say I probably would have acted in the same way had I been in the same position. Minus the burning tires, though.

You're god damn right.

[kalm]

He was a Freedom Fighter. The same could be said about George Washington

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

This

[Grizalltheway]

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

Nice one Gannon.

Notice all the fucks who hate him are conks - the same conks who we'll be seeing next season on Doomsday Preppers with all their guns and canned food and shit, ready to murder the tyranny....

Racists.

And to no one's surprise, that racist, homophobic slimeball St. Wronge was the first to chime in.

[D1B]

Nice one Gannon.

Notice all the fucks who hate him are conks - the same conks who we'll be seeing next season on Doomsday Preppers with all their guns and canned food and shit, ready to murder the tyranny....

Racists.

And to no one's surprise, that racist, homophobic slimeball St. Wronge was the first to chime in.

Yep and the rest of em fall in goosestep behind him.

[Ibanez]

He was a Freedom Fighter. The same could be said about George Washington

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

I like to mess with Klean.

But, you said it. This man fought hard for freedom, and that meant doing some unsavory things. Change isn't always neat and organized. Sometimes it's nasty, bloody and destructive.

[Pwns]

He was a Freedom Fighter. The same could be said about George Washington

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

The problem I have is the deification of him. This isn't Martin Luther Jr on Ghandi we are talking about. Mandela was involved in some very shady groups like the African National Congress and the South African Communist Party. If we are going to make heroes out of people who fight injustices by any means, should Che Guevara be considered a hero too?

[mrklean]

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

I like to mess with Klean.

But, you said it. This man fought hard for freedom, and that meant doing some unsavory things. Change isn't always neat and organized. Sometimes it's nasty, bloody and destructive.

Do you know what the Swamp Fox really did during th War? This guy was no joke and the British were scared as shit of this Man. But he is OUR Freedom Fighter.

[GannonFan]

Here I am agreeing with Klean - you guys who are dissing Mandela as a thug and a terrorist are nuts. What would you have done in a society that forced apartheid on you? This guy was fighting for freedom to live a life of his choosing and not to live a life trapped in the open air prison that apartheid created for Blacks in South Africa.

And even with all that, he did time in prison - almost 30 years of it - and not in prisons with the creature comforts we get here in the US. The guy's eyesight was ruined by doing hard labor chipping away lime rock for two decades. For what crimes he may have done in the name of freedom and dignity I'd say he paid his debt to society.

And then, even after all that, you can't just dismiss what this guy did in the aftermath of being released from prisona and the end of apartheid. No one would've been shocked if South Africa had just descended into another bloody, civil war-ravaged place after apartheid ended. No one would've been shocked if the oppressed millions would've risen up and not only sought revenge on those who oppressed them, but then turned on themselves afterwards in mad bids for power. Instead, we get Mandela as a President and he preaches and demands a country for all in it, white and black, and the transition from apartheid to democracy goes relatively problem-free. Even if he was responsible for deaths in the battle to eliminate apartheid, he probably saved thousands if not millions of lives by paving the way to a civil society that exists today in South Africa. No doubt, the man was a great man.

The problem I have is the deification of him. This isn't Martin Luther Jr on Ghandi we are talking about. Mandela was involved in some very shady groups like the African National Congress and the South African Communist Party. If we are going to make heroes out of people who fight injustices by any means, should Che Guevara be considered a hero too?

Like I said, you can't just ignore what he did after he got out of prison. He paid his dues in prison, and probably even more so, for what he was involved with prior to that (and again, he was fighting a system that all of us agree was oppressive and evil). And unlike MLK or Ghandi, there was no real evidence that things were going to change anytime soon in South Africa in the 50's and 60's before he went to prison. The British were going to leave India, it was just a question of when. Civil Rights were coming to America, again, it was a question of when. Even after Mandela was imprisoned there were decades of turmoil and violence on a large scale in South Africa. Apartheid didn't come down easily.

But again, once this man came out of prison, look to how that country transitioned from apartheid to democracy, and you cannot but admire that this man held that country together, healed the bitterness that apartheid caused, and led them to a country where today democracy thrives and the past does not darken the present or the future. He was a great man.

[Ibanez]

I like to mess with Klean.

But, you said it. This man fought hard for freedom, and that meant doing some unsavory things. Change isn't always neat and organized. Sometimes it's nasty, bloody and destructive.

Do you know what the Swamp Fox really did during th War? This guy was no joke and the British were scared as shit of this Man. But he is OUR Freedom Fighter.

Of course I know. Shit happens and sometimes extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good. You can't win, when your opponent doesn't fight "fair."

[mrklean]

Do you know what the Swamp Fox really did during th War? This guy was no joke and the British were scared as **** of this Man. But he is OUR Freedom Fighter.

Of course I know. **** happens and sometimes extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good. You can't win, when your opponent doesn't fight "fair."

Their is no Fair fight. You fight to win. The Swamp Fox knew that

[D1B]

Z, BDBUTBRGLR, Brawndo, Tman and the rest of hardcore conks haven't chimed in?

[Ibanez]

Of course I know. **** happens and sometimes extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good. You can't win, when your opponent doesn't fight "fair."

Their is no Fair fight. You fight to win. The Swamp Fox knew that

No, fair was in parentheses. Implying..nevermind. The British targeted women and children. Tarleton burned a church full of women and children. Look up the Waxhaw Massacre and see what he did to surrendering troops. That is what Marion was fighting against.

Mandela put petrol soaked tires around peoples necks and light them on fire. Like I said, "extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good."

[Vidav]

Their is no Fair fight. You fight to win. The Swamp Fox knew that

No, fair was in parentheses. Implying..nevermind. The British targeted women and children. Tarleton burned a church full of women and children. Look up the Waxhaw Massacre and see what he did to surrendering troops. That is what Marion was fighting against.

Mandela put petrol soaked tires around peoples necks and light them on fire. Like I said, "extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good."

Torturing people must be matched? Whatever happened to the whole "don't sink to their level" thing?

[kalm]

No, fair was in parentheses. Implying..nevermind. The British targeted women and children. Tarleton burned a church full of women and children. Look up the Waxhaw Massacre and see what he did to surrendering troops. That is what Marion was fighting against.

Mandela put petrol soaked tires around peoples necks and light them on fire. Like I said, "extreme violence must be matched in order to achieve a greater good."

Torturing people must be matched? Whatever happened to the whole "don't sink to their level" thing?

You must hate America...

[Vidav]

Torturing people must be matched? Whatever happened to the whole "don't sink to their level" thing?

You must hate America...

[kalm]

You must hate America...

[dbackjon]

A thug who became an icon that everybody is supposed to fawn over. The guy wasn't in prison because he "opposed apartheid." He was in prison because he was a violent revolutionary. He was brutal and ruthless. Him winning the "Peace Prize" was like Atilla the Hun winning it. If you take an "ends justify means" attitude you can say he was a hero. But this guy was no saint. He may have served a purpose. But he was no "great man."

LOL - and you probably consider Washington, Jefferson etc terrorists too.

[dbackjon]

Good riddance. As I said in the locker room a low life thug who became an icon because it fit the narrative. Nobody cared about what he actually DID. Just a matter of him being the face of a movement.

JFC - you are idiotic about this.


Read up on his post-prison leadership. He is more a man, more a leader than most on this planet

[CAA Flagship]

I'm not on the opposite side of Mandela here, but murder is murder. Don't you draw a line at taking someone's life when fighting for a "cause"? The only time that taking someone's life can be remotely acceptable is if it comes down to YOUR life or HIS life. I don't know the particulars of his antics, but you would have to build a pretty strong case of life-threatening self-defense for me to forget about someone taking lives.

Ray Lewis should be in jail too.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm not on the opposite side of Mandela here, but murder is murder. Don't you draw a line at taking someone's life when fighting for a "cause"? The only time that taking someone's life can be remotely acceptable is if it comes down to YOUR life or HIS life. I don't know the particulars of his antics, but you would have to build a pretty strong case of life-threatening self-defense for me to forget about someone taking lives.

Really? Where do you stand on every military person who has ever killed someone without being in immediate danger -- dropping bombs, shooting artillery, controlling drones, sniping, etc.