Government shutdowns and public relations

[Ibanez]

There is nothing unreasonable about delaying Obamacare. It is unreasonable when you know putting the amendments forth will equal no gain because your party does not have the votes in the upper house.

So basically bend over, and don't partake in the built in checks and balances of this government. You're kidding right? Then at what point does anyone stand up to the establishment? After Obama and the Dems get everything they want. Give them the funding now and debt ceiling increase and then negotiate? At that point there will be nothing to negotiate over because the damage will be done. The TP has leverage, it would be foolish of them to not use it. Giving in now and relinquishing that leverage is just bowing to the status quo as the establishment GOP has been doing for decades now.

So what is there to gain for the GOP/TP?

[Grizalltheway]

There is nothing unreasonable about delaying Obamacare. It is unreasonable when you know putting the amendments forth will equal no gain because your party does not have the votes in the upper house.

So basically bend over, and don't partake in the built in checks and balances of this government. You're kidding right? Then at what point does anyone stand up to the establishment? After Obama and the Dems get everything they want. Give them the funding now and debt ceiling increase and then negotiate? At that point there will be nothing to negotiate over because the damage will be done. The TP has leverage, it would be foolish of them to not use it. Giving in now and relinquishing that leverage is just bowing to the status quo as the establishment GOP has been doing for decades now.

Uh, the law was approved by the legislative, executive AND judicial branches. Conks lost, can't deal with it, and are now acting like children who didn't get their way. It's really as simple as that.

[SDHornet]

They are all to blame and I've said that. But negotiating when you know your demands won't be met, or even discussed is pointless. If I came to you, knowing you will not pay me more than $100 and demand $150, we'd get nowhere, especially if you aren't willing to go up and i'm not willing to go down (no homo). The democrats should have accepted the 1 year delay. That was an easy win right there. But both sides won't back down because any compromise is perceived as weakness.

Terrible analogy. No one is trying to buy anything here. Some kind of analogy with trying to get a loan from a bank would be more fitting but I’ll leave that one up to AZ and/or Hen. The issue here, as with any negotiation is leverage. Obama and the Dems need the votes to get their ACA passed, and to get those they have to deal with the TP. As in the past with any congressional negotiations, deals are cut and both groups meet in the middle to keep things going. The TP has made concessions towards the middle on an agreement that both sides could probably live with (although in the end the American people are still fucked in the long run, but that a different thread). The reason why that has not happened is all the vitriol coming from both sides, specifically Obama and Reid with their “our way or the highway” mentality. They should know that shit doesn’t fly in politics unless you have control of both sides of Congress. That's how this game has been played since its inception and they should know better.

[SDHornet]

So basically bend over, and don't partake in the built in checks and balances of this government. You're kidding right? Then at what point does anyone stand up to the establishment? After Obama and the Dems get everything they want. Give them the funding now and debt ceiling increase and then negotiate? At that point there will be nothing to negotiate over because the damage will be done. The TP has leverage, it would be foolish of them to not use it. Giving in now and relinquishing that leverage is just bowing to the status quo as the establishment GOP has been doing for decades now.

You have to pick your battles. You have to pick when and where you fight. The TP fights the same losing battle all the time. Change your rhetoric and tactic. I understand checks and balances. If the Democrats were really concerned, they would have gone into conference on Tuesday. That was such a smart move by the GOP. I really have no side in this, I'm not a fan or supporter of the Tea Party or either Party.

I agree and me neither. But this was the battle the TP campaigned on with their fringe supporters. Why the establishment throws up their hands in surprise is utterly ridiculous.

[SDHornet]

So basically bend over, and don't partake in the built in checks and balances of this government. You're kidding right? Then at what point does anyone stand up to the establishment? After Obama and the Dems get everything they want. Give them the funding now and debt ceiling increase and then negotiate? At that point there will be nothing to negotiate over because the damage will be done. The TP has leverage, it would be foolish of them to not use it. Giving in now and relinquishing that leverage is just bowing to the status quo as the establishment GOP has been doing for decades now.

So what is there to gain for the GOP/TP?

A 1 year delay for individuals and inclusion by Congress in the ACA. If this were to happen, this would be a huge win for the TP and show everyone that they actually might have some relevance in politics.

[SDHornet]

So basically bend over, and don't partake in the built in checks and balances of this government. You're kidding right? Then at what point does anyone stand up to the establishment? After Obama and the Dems get everything they want. Give them the funding now and debt ceiling increase and then negotiate? At that point there will be nothing to negotiate over because the damage will be done. The TP has leverage, it would be foolish of them to not use it. Giving in now and relinquishing that leverage is just bowing to the status quo as the establishment GOP has been doing for decades now.

Uh, the law was approved by the legislative, executive AND judicial branches. Conks lost, can't deal with it, and are now acting like children who didn't get their way. It's really as simple as that.

See the part where Obama issued (illegally?) union exemptions and big business delays on inclusion then get back to me. I'd have no issue if everyone was forced to enter the ACA at the same time and play by the same rules.

[Ibanez]

They are all to blame and I've said that. But negotiating when you know your demands won't be met, or even discussed is pointless. If I came to you, knowing you will not pay me more than $100 and demand $150, we'd get nowhere, especially if you aren't willing to go up and i'm not willing to go down (no homo). The democrats should have accepted the 1 year delay. That was an easy win right there. But both sides won't back down because any compromise is perceived as weakness.

Terrible analogy. No one is trying to buy anything here. Some kind of analogy with trying to get a loan from a bank would be more fitting but I’ll leave that one up to AZ and/or Hen. The issue here, as with any negotiation is leverage. Obama and the Dems need the votes to get their ACA passed, and to get those they have to deal with the TP. As in the past with any congressional negotiations, deals are cut and both groups meet in the middle to keep things going. The TP has made concessions towards the middle on an agreement that both sides could probably live with (although in the end the American people are still fucked in the long run, but that a different thread). The reason why that has not happened is all the vitriol coming from both sides, specifically Obama and Reid with their “our way or the highway” mentality. They should know that shit doesn’t fly in politics unless you have control of both sides of Congress. That's how this game has been played since its inception and they should know better.

I couldn't think of a better one.

[YoUDeeMan]

Uh, the law was approved by the legislative, executive AND judicial branches. Conks lost, can't deal with it, and are now acting like children who didn't get their way. It's really as simple as that.

Tell that to Obama, numnuts.

Obama decided that the law, the one passed by the three branches you just mentioned, was not to be followed.

And, like a child that didn't get his way, he unilaterally (in this case that means without the legislative and judicial branches you mentioned above) decided he and his special interests would not follow the law (the one you imply that the Conks should follow).

It really is as simple as that.

[SDHornet]

I couldn't think of a better one.

I won't hold it against you.

[SDHornet]

Uh, the law was approved by the legislative, executive AND judicial branches. Conks lost, can't deal with it, and are now acting like children who didn't get their way. It's really as simple as that.

Tell that to Obama, numnuts.

Obama decided that the law, the one passed by the three branches you just mentioned, was not to be followed.

And, like a child that didn't get his way, he unilaterally (in this case that means without the legislative and judicial branches you mentioned above) decided he and his special interests would not follow the law (the one you imply that the Conks should follow).

It really is as simple as that.

Clearly that point went right over his head.

[Ibanez]

I couldn't think of a better one.

I won't hold it against you.

Thanks, Fluffy. My brain is fried. I need a siesta.

[blueballs]

Uh, the law was approved by the legislative, executive AND judicial branches. Conks lost, can't deal with it, and are now acting like children who didn't get their way. It's really as simple as that.

Tell that to Obama, numnuts.

Obama decided that the law, the one passed by the three branches you just mentioned, was not to be followed.

And, like a child that didn't get his way, he unilaterally (in this case that means without the legislative and judicial branches you mentioned above) decided he and his special interests would not follow the law (the one you imply that the Conks should follow).

It really is as simple as that.

This^^^

[kalm]

And again...people are SHOCKED...SHOCKED I tell ya that the socialist Obama would cater to special interests!

Why did he do this? Why didn't the Republicans stop him?

Why are establishment conks trying to get the TP to back down?

Why isn't the TP not listening?

Oh my...he's breaking the law!

[kalm]

WASHINGTON -- A group of Senate Republicans, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), railed against Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) at a private luncheon on Wednesday, according to The New York Times, which cited two unnamed people who were present.

Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) presented a Senate Conservatives Fund printout that logged 25 Senate Republicans -- including Ayotte and McConnell -- as voting for cloture on Sunday in what the group said was supporting Obamacare, "betraying their principles" and "giving Democrats the power," the newspaper reported.

When Ayotte asked whether Cruz would repudiate the Senate Conservatives Fund's attack, Cruz responded, "I will not," an attendee told Politico.
At that point, McConnell, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and others joined in lashing Cruz, leader of the anti-Obamacare showdown that spiraled into the government shutdown. "It just started a lynch mob," one senator told the Times.

The clash shows some Republican senators have lost patience with Cruz, who has failed to reveal a strategy to win his goal of defunding Obamacare.

“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy -– he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” one senator told Politico. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.”

Conservatives outside the Senate have taken swings at Cruz as well. Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, said Cruz "pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away." Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) accused the "Ted Cruz wing" of trying to "hijack" the Republican Party.

[ASUMountaineer]

WASHINGTON -- A group of Senate Republicans, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), railed against Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) at a private luncheon on Wednesday, according to The New York Times, which cited two unnamed people who were present.

Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) presented a Senate Conservatives Fund printout that logged 25 Senate Republicans -- including Ayotte and McConnell -- as voting for cloture on Sunday in what the group said was supporting Obamacare, "betraying their principles" and "giving Democrats the power," the newspaper reported.

When Ayotte asked whether Cruz would repudiate the Senate Conservatives Fund's attack, Cruz responded, "I will not," an attendee told Politico.
At that point, McConnell, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and others joined in lashing Cruz, leader of the anti-Obamacare showdown that spiraled into the government shutdown. "It just started a lynch mob," one senator told the Times.

The clash shows some Republican senators have lost patience with Cruz, who has failed to reveal a strategy to win his goal of defunding Obamacare.

“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy -– he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” one senator told Politico. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.”

Conservatives outside the Senate have taken swings at Cruz as well. Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, said Cruz "pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away." Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) accused the "Ted Cruz wing" of trying to "hijack" the Republican Party.

Clueless Cruz' Cruzade

[Ivytalk]

Hey, 93, was that you on the Billy Ray Valentine-style scooter at 10th and Market?

[CAA Flagship]

Internet statistics have shown a 1200% increase of porn site traffic In the last couple of days during the daytime hours.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the clusterfuck that it is.

Ugh. I am so sick of this misinformation.

Congress is not exempt from ACA.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Congress and their staffs are actually required to get insurance through the exchanges.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/congre ... obamacare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Be against ACA/Obamacare if you want... but, get your facts straight.

[93henfan]

Hey, 93, was that you on the Billy Ray Valentine-style scooter at 10th and Market?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[93henfan]

Internet statistics have shown a 1200% increase of porn site traffic In the last couple of days during the daytime hours.

I have no idea what you're talking about either.

Can I bum a cigarette?

[Ivytalk]

Hey, 93, was that you on the Billy Ray Valentine-style scooter at 10th and Market?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Trading Places scene. 1983 movie with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. If you haven't seen it, you wouldn't get it.

[93henfan]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Trading Places scene. 1983 movie with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. If you haven't seen it, you wouldn't get it.

I remember Eddie Murphy on a cart pretending he couldn't walk. Haven't seen that movie in over 20 years.

[CAA Flagship]

Trading Places scene. 1983 movie with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. If you haven't seen it, you wouldn't get it.

I remember Eddie Murphy on a cart pretending he couldn't walk. Haven't seen that movie in over 20 years.

Billy Ray Valentine: [while acting blind and legless] Hey, baby, what's happening? How are ya doing? Once you have a man with no legs, you never go back, baby. I know what you're thinkin'. You seen "Porgy and Bess"?

[the woman begins to walk away]

Billy Ray Valentine: We can make it, baby! Me and you!... You BITCH!

[blueballs]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Trading Places scene. 1983 movie with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. If you haven't seen it, you wouldn't get it.

Don't forget Jamie Lee Curtis' tits.... this was of course before she became constipated.

[Col Hogan]

I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the **** that it is.

Ugh. I am so sick of this misinformation.

Congress is not exempt from ACA.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Congress and their staffs are actually required to get insurance through the exchanges.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/congre ... obamacare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Be against ACA/Obamacare if you want... but, get your facts straight.

Jelly is correct, but leaves out one key fact...once they realized how much they would be SCREWED, they demanded, and got 0Bama, to somehow grant them a huge subsidy to pay for their ACA care...something that the common person can't get...