Government shutdowns and public relations

[JohnStOnge]

Why is it that Republicans get the blame for government shut downs? It's amazing.

In the 1990s, Congress sent Bill Clinton a spending Bill. Clinton vetoed it. He's the one that took the action to shut down the government. HE shut down the government. Yet it was perceived as the Republican Congress shutting down the government. And I think that most people of today think that Congress shut the government down on that occasion. But it's objectively not true. The President did it.

Now, It's not quite as clear cut. But if government shuts down it will be at least as much the responsibility of the President and the Democrat controlled Senate as it is of the Republican controlled House. One could say the Democrats would rather shut down the government than delay funding of the Affordable Care Act. And one could say that the Republicans would rather shut down the government than NOT delay the funding.

But it's clearly not just "The Republicans Shutting Down Government." Democrats are clearly at least as "culpable."

So why is it that the Democrats are always successful in putting the "blame" on the Republicans when this sort of thing happens?

[kalm]

[JohnStOnge]

No. Sour grapes is when you really want something and can't have it so you say you don't want it anyway. The fox in the fable could not get the grapes so he said that they were sour anyway.

I would like it if there would be a fair perception when this sort of thing comes up. I don't say that it doesn't matter anyway. It does. Like right now we have Obama talking about the Republicans saying they're going to blow things up if they don't get everything they want. Yet he and the Senate Democrats are doing exactly the same thing. One side wants to pull funding from efforts to implement the Affordable Care Act and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way. The other side wants funding as planned for the implementation and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way.

"Blaming" one side and not the other makes no sense. Both are assuming the same position in terms of willingness to see the government shut down if they don't get their way. But for some reason the Republicans will get the blame as they always do in these situations.

And, again, it was even worse during the Clinton years. Clinton shut the government down. HE did it. Congress did not. But to this day people refer to the Republicans in Congress shutting the government down then. Completely inaccurate perception but very well established nonetheless.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW to me a rational person would put more blame on the Democrats. You've got spending authorized that both sides want to see. But because one side doesn't want to spend something the other side does the side that wants to spend wants to reject the whole thing. That makes no sense. To me, when two parties are in an arrangement like that the sensible thing to do is go ahead and authorize spending where such spending is agreed upon.

But it doesn't work like that. The Democrats somehow get way with what they do.

[kalm]

No. Sour grapes is when you really want something and can't have it so you say you don't want it anyway. The fox in the fable could not get the grapes so he said that they were sour anyway.

I would like it if there would be a fair perception when this sort of thing comes up. I don't say that it doesn't matter anyway. It does. Like right now we have Obama talking about the Republicans saying they're going to blow things up if they don't get everything they want. Yet he and the Senate Democrats are doing exactly the same thing. One side wants to pull funding from efforts to implement the Affordable Care Act and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way. The other side wants funding as planned for the implementation and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way.

"Blaming" one side and not the other makes no sense. Both are assuming the same position in terms of willingness to see the government shut down if they don't get their way. But for some reason the Republicans will get the blame as they always do in these situations.

And, again, it was even worse during the Clinton years. Clinton shut the government down. HE did it. Congress did not. But to this day people refer to the Republicans in Congress shutting the government down then. Completely inaccurate perception but very well established nonetheless.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Was Obamacare never passed?

[JohnStOnge]

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Was Obamacare never passed?

Yes it was but so was the Constitution and the Constitution gives Congress the power of the purse. Congress choosing not to fund something is a totally legitimate exercise of its Constitutional power.

If Congress wanted to it could do something like opt not to fund the DEA and let the DEA wither on the vine. Wish they would in fact. But in any case that would also be a totally legitimate exercise of Congress' power.

The only thing I can think of that they can't Constitutionally do is reduce the pay of Federal judges. Otherwise, as far as I know, they are granted to power to opt not to spend money on anything they opt not to spend money on. That includes a lot of stuff we now call "mandatory" spending.

The Affordable Care Act is the "Law of the Land" but so is the Constitution and the Constitution, obviously, is a higher order of law.

[kalm]

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Was Obamacare never passed?

Yes it was but so was the Constitution and the Constitution gives Congress the power of the purse. Congress choosing not to fund something is a totally legitimate exercise of its Constitutional power.

If Congress wanted to it could do something like opt not to fund the DEA and let the DEA wither on the vine. Wish they would in fact. But in any case that would also be a totally legitimate exercise of Congress' power.

The only thing I can think of that they can't Constitutionally do is reduce the pay of Federal judges. Otherwise, as far as I know, they are granted to power to opt not to spend money on anything they opt not to spend money on. That includes a lot of stuff we now call "mandatory" spending.

The Affordable Care Act is the "Law of the Land" but so is the Constitution and the Constitution, obviously, is a higher order of law.

Oh. So it was passed into law and Republicans are threatening to not fund it. They are choosing to do this. Where exactly are you confused?

[houndawg]

No. Sour grapes is when you really want something and can't have it so you say you don't want it anyway. The fox in the fable could not get the grapes so he said that they were sour anyway.

I would like it if there would be a fair perception when this sort of thing comes up. I don't say that it doesn't matter anyway. It does. Like right now we have Obama talking about the Republicans saying they're going to blow things up if they don't get everything they want. Yet he and the Senate Democrats are doing exactly the same thing. One side wants to pull funding from efforts to implement the Affordable Care Act and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way. The other side wants funding as planned for the implementation and is willing to see the government shut down if it doesn't get its way.

"Blaming" one side and not the other makes no sense. Both are assuming the same position in terms of willingness to see the government shut down if they don't get their way. But for some reason the Republicans will get the blame as they always do in these situations.

And, again, it was even worse during the Clinton years. Clinton shut the government down. HE did it. Congress did not. But to this day people refer to the Republicans in Congress shutting the government down then. Completely inaccurate perception but very well established nonetheless.

How you manage to stay so out of touch will always be a mystery to me. It was newt Gingrich that shut down the government and wound up on the rubbish heap for his efforts, good riddance. And it was the republicans who started the take-no-prisoners politics of confrontation that they can't back up. Now they whine because they have, as usual, misjudged public sentiment. But all is not lost, Johnny boy, once the democrats have cleaned up the republican mess like Clinton did the republicans will get another chance to spend us into oblivion while giving the 1% a free ride. In the mean time you're crowd needs to shut up and play the hand they dealt.

Ain't it funny how Reid is kicking the bejeezus out of Boehner?

[Chizzang]

I'm still trying to care about the whole thing...
(please shut down the TSA)

[expandspanos]

[blueballs]

Because democrats can say and do what they want with pretty much no push back from 98% of the national media. They control the narrative, regardless of whether the narrative is truthful, because of their allies in the press.

[Skjellyfetti]

You're borderline schizo... so, I don't think you need to worry about where to direct your paranoia.Your beautiful mind will find a place to direct your bizarre theories.

[expandspanos]

You're borderline schizo... so, I don't think you need to worry about where to direct your paranoia.Your beautiful mind will find a place to direct your bizarre theories.

You're delusional..

The government has been caught red-handed spying on the American people, has it, or has it not?

You think this government isn't BLOWING our taxpayer money YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR MIND!

P.S. i didn't make the image.. so feel free to direct your rage at someone else- we're all "schizo" who think the government was caught spying and is BLOWING our hard-earned taxpayer dollars.

This piece of shit government completely dissolving would the BEST POSSIBLE thing to happen to this country since 1776.

[houndawg]

I'm still trying to care about the whole thing...
(please shut down the TSA)

This. If the government shuts down, how will we be able to tell?

[SDHornet]

You're borderline schizo... so, I don't think you need to worry about where to direct your paranoia.Your beautiful mind will find a place to direct your bizarre theories.

You're delusional..

The government has been caught red-handed spying on the American people, has it, or has it not?

You think this government isn't BLOWING our taxpayer money YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR MIND!

P.S. i didn't make the image.. so feel free to direct your rage at someone else- we're all "schizo" who think the government was caught spying and is BLOWING our hard-earned taxpayer dollars.

This piece of shit government completely dissolving would the BEST POSSIBLE thing to happen to this country since 1776.

Total pwnage Spandos. Well done sir, well done.

[SDHornet]

I'm still trying to care about the whole thing...
(please shut down the TSA)

This. If the government shuts down, how will we be able to tell?

Yup...but we all know the Repubs are going to fold on this like they have done on everything else so far. Not sure why this is even an issue anymore.

[JohnStOnge]

How you manage to stay so out of touch will always be a mystery to me. It was newt Gingrich that shut down the government and wound up on the rubbish heap for his efforts, good riddance.

No. Your comment is an illustration of the false perception. Congress passed a spending Bill. Clinton vetoed it. Clinton shut down the government. That's just the objective truth. He's the one that took the action to do it. If he'd have signed the Bill the government would not have been shut down.

Congress did what was necessary to keep things going. It passed a spending Bill. Clinton signs it and there's no disruption.

[kalm]

How you manage to stay so out of touch will always be a mystery to me. It was newt Gingrich that shut down the government and wound up on the rubbish heap for his efforts, good riddance.

No. Your comment is an illustration of the false perception. Congress passed a spending Bill. Clinton vetoed it. Clinton shut down the government. That's just the objective truth. He's the one that took the action to do it. If he'd have signed the Bill the government would not have been shut down.

Congress did what was necessary to keep things going. It passed a spending Bill. Clinton signs it and there's no disruption.

So it's OK with you that congress uses its power but not the president?

[Skjellyfetti]

You're borderline schizo... so, I don't think you need to worry about where to direct your paranoia.Your beautiful mind will find a place to direct your bizarre theories.

You're delusional..

The government has been caught red-handed spying on the American people, has it, or has it not?

You think this government isn't BLOWING our taxpayer money YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR MIND!

P.S. i didn't make the image.. so feel free to direct your rage at someone else- we're all "schizo" who think the government was caught spying and is BLOWING our hard-earned taxpayer dollars.

This piece of shit government completely dissolving would the BEST POSSIBLE thing to happen to this country since 1776.

My comment wasn't about your poster, government spending, government spying, etc... but, the 12 conspiracy theory threads you start a week.

If the government boogy man went away, your schizo mind would find another direction for your paranoia.

[bluehenbillk]

Personally I blame both sides on this for just dragging their feet. There is no reason why this process should have had it 1st proposal LAST WEEK! Then nothing happens on Sunday & the Senate isn't even meeting till 2:00pm today.

Congress, the greatest part-time job in the country.....

[Ibanez]

Why is it that Republicans get the blame for government shut downs? It's amazing.

In the 1990s, Congress sent Bill Clinton a spending Bill. Clinton vetoed it. He's the one that took the action to shut down the government. HE shut down the government. Yet it was perceived as the Republican Congress shutting down the government. And I think that most people of today think that Congress shut the government down on that occasion. But it's objectively not true. The President did it.

Now, It's not quite as clear cut. But if government shuts down it will be at least as much the responsibility of the President and the Democrat controlled Senate as it is of the Republican controlled House. One could say the Democrats would rather shut down the government than delay funding of the Affordable Care Act. And one could say that the Republicans would rather shut down the government than NOT delay the funding.

But it's clearly not just "The Republicans Shutting Down Government." Democrats are clearly at least as "culpable."

So why is it that the Democrats are always successful in putting the "blame" on the Republicans when this sort of thing happens?

Because Republicans pick the wrong fights. They chose the wrong time to pick the wrong fight. If they really wanted to fix things, they'd look at how to retake all of Congress.

[GannonFan]

Personally I blame both sides on this for just dragging their feet. There is no reason why this process should have had it 1st proposal LAST WEEK! Then nothing happens on Sunday & the Senate isn't even meeting till 2:00pm today.

Congress, the greatest part-time job in the country.....

This. There aren't any real winners in this process, both Republican and Democrats have gone so far away from even bothering to work with each other, and at the same time rushing to compare the other party to Hitler/evil/The Devil/etc that it just makes it harder to start moving back towards working to find a common solution. And it's not just the politicians to blame, blame the party adherents and message board mavens as well that routinely preach to their own choirs about the evils of the other party and how whichever party they belong to has the exclusvity on being correct.

This has been a mutual effort to get to this point of political dysfunction, and trying to point fingers at one party exclusively is almost indicative of someone's one political leanings. We need leadership (and not just Presidential, but among anyone in government) and right now we might have the weakest cast of leaders we've seen in a generation. Nothing's going to really change for awhile as well - mid term elections are likely to be unconclusive so we probably have this until 2016 at this point. Ugh.

[TheDancinMonarch]

There aren't any real winners in this process, both Republican and Democrats have gone so far away from even bothering to work with each other, and at the same time rushing to compare the other party to Hitler/evil/The Devil/etc that it just makes it harder to start moving back towards working to find a common solution. And it's not just the politicians to blame, blame the party adherents and message board mavens as well that routinely preach to their own choirs about the evils of the other party and how whichever party they belong to has the exclusvity on being correct.

This has been a mutual effort to get to this point of political dysfunction, and trying to point fingers at one party exclusively is almost indicative of someone's one political leanings. We need leadership (and not just Presidential, but among anyone in government) and right now we might have the weakest cast of leaders we've seen in a generation. Nothing's going to really change for awhile as well - mid term elections are likely to be unconclusive so we probably have this until 2016 at this point. Ugh.

Couldn't agree more. Take the George Allen/Tim Kaine Senate race here in Virginia last year. The ads the candidates ran against each other were not that bad but the ads run by the two parties committees from Washington were despicable. Tim Kaine won but were I either of them I would be disinclined to work with the other side just based on the ads run against me. Somehow we have to get to some level of civility. Opposition is fine but it should not be character assassination and expressions of evil intent. The whole process has just come to disgust me but I guess that is what both sides want. I guess that the power they think they will derive from victory is worth the dirty hands necessary to get it.

[Ivytalk]

A plague on both their houses!

Just keep paying 93.

[ASUMountaineer]

Why is it that Republicans get the blame for government shut downs? It's amazing.

In the 1990s, Congress sent Bill Clinton a spending Bill. Clinton vetoed it. He's the one that took the action to shut down the government. HE shut down the government. Yet it was perceived as the Republican Congress shutting down the government. And I think that most people of today think that Congress shut the government down on that occasion. But it's objectively not true. The President did it.

Now, It's not quite as clear cut. But if government shuts down it will be at least as much the responsibility of the President and the Democrat controlled Senate as it is of the Republican controlled House. One could say the Democrats would rather shut down the government than delay funding of the Affordable Care Act. And one could say that the Republicans would rather shut down the government than NOT delay the funding.

But it's clearly not just "The Republicans Shutting Down Government." Democrats are clearly at least as "culpable."

So why is it that the Democrats are always successful in putting the "blame" on the Republicans when this sort of thing happens?

Because Republicans pick the wrong fights. They chose the wrong time to pick the wrong fight. If they really wanted to fix things, they'd look at how to retake all of Congress.