White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by BDKJMU »

ASUG8 wrote:
GannonFan wrote:Still not sure how this is going to fly in the initial years. Right now, just out of pocket (and not including co pays or deductibles) a basic plan will cost something like $150/month, or more. So let's just round it to $2k per year for a plan. Since the penalty/tax to not have a plan is going to be around $400-$600 per year, why would anyone who doesn't regularly see a doctor (i.e. young males at least) ever sign up for a plan until they actually go to an ER or a doctor? You can't be denied treatment so why fork over the extra $1500 a year just to cut down on paperwork when you get treatment? The problem has been, and probably always will be, how do you get healthy people to voluntarily, or unwittingly, pay even more for the unhealthy than they do today?
The same situation as funding Medicare/SS, except it's mandated that everyone participate - there are no outs in those programs vs. the penalties with ACA. The youngsters have to pay for those older than them. I read somewhere that the penalties will increase annually so that there will be little or no benefit to refrain from coverage and pay the penalty.
I've read that youngsters (20s-30s) on the individial market with the 200-300% increases they are facing will pay more than the penalty in most cases. The penalty caps out for an individual at $695 or 2.5% of income.

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You're typical 20-30s making 40-60k would be paying about 1k-$1500 in penalty (2.5%). Gonna pay a lot more a yr than that on the individual market, more like 2-3k..
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by ASUG8 »

bluehenbillk wrote: First of all, if you already have health insurance, as most (the majoirty) Americans do you don't have to use Obamacare. Secondly, if you pay less than $100/mo right now I'd like to see what that puppy actually covers. Sounds like they have an ultra-high deductible & god help them if they ever need medical care paying the bill.
Thirdly, where are the examples of "high risk" people that have health insurance today & pay through the nose for it?, or fourthly, people that aren't covered by insurance currently because of their pre-existing conditions?

For the record I'm not an advocate for health insurance for the poor as some type of welfare which unfortunately is a good part of Obamacare. But it's hard to find anyone who'd disagree on covering the people bankrupted by the current system that face astronomical (and hyper inflated not to mention) health care costs b/c they're currently denied such coverage is a simply good thing moving forward.

Let's face it, health care in America before Obamacare was a clusterfu*k and it still will be under Obamacare. When the next thing comes along in 2017, 2018 or whenever let's just hope we get it right.... :coffee:
No disagreement here - I think a lot of these people you mention are the ones that are hitting hospital ER's for a cold that cause your kid with a broken wrist to wait for 5 hours. It's not an indictment of these people, but simply an observation that if they can't get covered through conventional means they'll use what's available for them, which is subsidized by those of us who are able to pay.

ACA isn't a perfect program, and likely never will be. I think everyone should have access to healthcare, but this program at its core was ramrodded through Congress without a lot of thought. Implementation and managing the exceptions will be the true challenge of its success or failure. :twocents:
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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"OBAMACARE TRIPLES KENTUCKY FAMILY'S INSURANCE OVERNIGHT

Andy and Amy Mangione of Louisville, Kentucky say their health insurance nearly tripled overnight from $333 a month to $965 due to Obamacare.

"When I saw the letter when I came home from work, it said 'your action required, benefit changes, act now.' Of course, I opened it immediately," said Andy Mangione.

Andy Mangione told Fox News veteran reporter Jim Angle that nothing had changed about the health of his wife, himself, or their two boys.

"This is a high deductible plan where I'm assuming a lot of risk for my health insurance for my family," Mangione told Fox News. "And nothing has changed, our boys are healthy—they're young—my wife is healthy. I'm healthy, nothing in our medical history has changed to warrant a tripling of our premiums."

The Mangiones's insurance company, Humana, declined to comment. Humana did, however, include the following explanation in the rate spike announcement letter:

If your policy premium increased, you should know this isn't unique to Humana—premium increases generally will occur industry-wide. Increases aren't based on your individual claims or changes in health status. Many other factors go in to your premium including: ACA [Affordable Care Act—also known as Obamacare] compliance, including the addition of new essential health benefits.

Obamacare's government healthcare exchanges go live nationwide in six days."
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by CID1990 »

GannonFan wrote:Still not sure how this is going to fly in the initial years. Right now, just out of pocket (and not including co pays or deductibles) a basic plan will cost something like $150/month, or more. So let's just round it to $2k per year for a plan. Since the penalty/tax to not have a plan is going to be around $400-$600 per year, why would anyone who doesn't regularly see a doctor (i.e. young males at least) ever sign up for a plan until they actually go to an ER or a doctor? You can't be denied treatment so why fork over the extra $1500 a year just to cut down on paperwork when you get treatment? The problem has been, and probably always will be, how do you get healthy people to voluntarily, or unwittingly, pay even more for the unhealthy than they do today?
This.

The best thing an opponent of Obamacare can have happen is for it to be implemented in its entirety. The next best thing will be to tweak it to where it is actually solvent (which means easing the penalties for non participation to well over the premium costs).

Do that, and it dies on the vine within two election cycles.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
GannonFan wrote:Still not sure how this is going to fly in the initial years. Right now, just out of pocket (and not including co pays or deductibles) a basic plan will cost something like $150/month, or more. So let's just round it to $2k per year for a plan. Since the penalty/tax to not have a plan is going to be around $400-$600 per year, why would anyone who doesn't regularly see a doctor (i.e. young males at least) ever sign up for a plan until they actually go to an ER or a doctor? You can't be denied treatment so why fork over the extra $1500 a year just to cut down on paperwork when you get treatment? The problem has been, and probably always will be, how do you get healthy people to voluntarily, or unwittingly, pay even more for the unhealthy than they do today?
This.

The best thing an opponent of Obamacare can have happen is for it to be implemented in its entirety. The next best thing will be to tweak it to where it is actually solvent (which means easing the penalties for non participation to well over the premium costs).

Do that, and it dies on the vine within two election cycles.
Agreed...
and have a corrective plan ready to implement
However our congress is FILLED with douche bags and freeloaders of the lowest common denominator
Mostly those who inherited their wealth
Feel completely entitled
and don't get it
Have no interest outside of themselves
and aren't bright enough to learn when showed
and don't actually (honestly) care about America

:nod: We're doomed / sadly

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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by TheDancinMonarch »

Chizzang wrote: However our congress is FILLED with douche bags and freeloaders of the lowest common denominator
Mostly those who inherited their wealth
Feel completely entitled
and don't get it
Have no interest outside of themselves
and aren't bright enough to learn when showed
and don't actually (honestly) care about America
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
This.

The best thing an opponent of Obamacare can have happen is for it to be implemented in its entirety. The next best thing will be to tweak it to where it is actually solvent (which means easing the penalties for non participation to well over the premium costs).

Do that, and it dies on the vine within two election cycles.
Agreed...
and have a corrective plan ready to implement
This is my biggest problem with the GOP right now. They have a golden opportunity to put an epic smackdown on this statist train wreck, and it seems like they are all either too stupid or too lazy to have a plan B ready to go.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Agreed...
and have a corrective plan ready to implement
This is my biggest problem with the GOP right now. They have a golden opportunity to put an epic smackdown on this statist train wreck, and it seems like they are all either too stupid or too lazy to have a plan B ready to go.
Too stupid. :coffee:
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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Hmm. So Republican studies say one thing and Democratic studies say another.

I'm shocked.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Agreed...
and have a corrective plan ready to implement
This is my biggest problem with the GOP right now. They have a golden opportunity to put an epic smackdown on this statist train wreck, and it seems like they are all either too stupid or too lazy to have a plan B ready to go.

That would be an "epic smackdown" I would completely support...
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by LeadBolt »

There are aspects of the health care system need improvements and the government could make things better through legislation. I would be all for a common sense approach. The Affordable Health Care Act does not do that. It is more about taxation than health care. It does nothing to reign in health care costs. It creates further imbalances and inefficiencies.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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-
I think BHO will postpone this for a year next week.
Needs to get this past the mid terms next year

Senator Cruz Obamacare Fact of the Day (IRS workers union seeks exemption)
Political News ^ | 9/09/13 | Patricia Williams

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) released the twenty-fifth in a series of facts about Obamacare:

The union representing IRS workers — tasked with enforcing Obamacare — vocally opposes participation in the law’s exchanges. IRS union leaders provided their members with a form letter expressing concern with legislation to “push federal employees out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program and into the insurance exchanges established under the Affordable Care Act.”

(Excerpt) Read more at politicalnews.me ...
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
There's no such thing as a free market, Weisenheimer. :coffee:
That factoid didn't stop you from agreeing with the failure of the thing you admit doesn't exist. What were you agreeing to again?
Ooops...I sometimes forget that you struggle with

1) nuance

2) reading between the lines

:lol:

Dback may lean too far left for some, but he's a smart and well reasoned dude. Pretty sure he's ok with free market principles in general and that his remark here was satirical. That's why I typically place "free market" in quotes. Too many people a) believe a totally "free market" and privatization is always the answer, b) fail to appreciate the importance of at least some government regulation in said markets, and c) fail to recognize not everything needs to be for-profit in order to best serve society (eg: health insurance, prison systems, education, war)

These people also tend to view the world in black and white.

Of course our healthcare system is not a "free market". Just like the financial system, auto industry, defense manufacturing, education...........But it has been more free than most OECD countries, almost all of whom spend less, for equal if not better outcomes.

But I appreciate the attention. :thumb:
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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CID1990 wrote:
GannonFan wrote:Still not sure how this is going to fly in the initial years. Right now, just out of pocket (and not including co pays or deductibles) a basic plan will cost something like $150/month, or more. So let's just round it to $2k per year for a plan. Since the penalty/tax to not have a plan is going to be around $400-$600 per year, why would anyone who doesn't regularly see a doctor (i.e. young males at least) ever sign up for a plan until they actually go to an ER or a doctor? You can't be denied treatment so why fork over the extra $1500 a year just to cut down on paperwork when you get treatment? The problem has been, and probably always will be, how do you get healthy people to voluntarily, or unwittingly, pay even more for the unhealthy than they do today?
This.

The best thing an opponent of Obamacare can have happen is for it to be implemented in its entirety. The next best thing will be to tweak it to where it is actually solvent (which means easing the penalties for non participation to well over the premium costs).

Do that, and it dies on the vine within two election cycles.
Que Z to tell you why this is patently false and idiotic.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

Post by Ibanez »

I was listening to REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D) from Illinois on C-Span on XM on my way in and she amused me. A caller said, "It was announced last night, that our local factory was cutting 800 jobs and its due to ACA. Your people need to hear from you." Schakowsky says to him that nobody is losing their jobs, she hasn't heard of anyone anywhere losing their job due to ACA, and then started talking about how this is great for hospitals. This made me think and I have a couple of questions/comments. If anyone cares to answer, please feel free.

1) I know I won't have to enroll b/c my employer pays part of my insurance. However, if we're to assume that millions of Americans will be added to rolls, can we safely assume that, Aetna for instance, could reduce premiums across the board? Essentially, when the risk is spread across approx. 17 million medical subscribers the rate is $X. Now that more people are added, shouldn't premiums go down? Why would they, Aetna can increase it's profit margin?

2) I've yet to see any documentation that states hospitals will lower their prices due to having more insured patients. Why would they lower prices? Again, having more insured patients would increase their profit margin, correct?

3) Has anyone seen or heard anything about actually having a "menu" at a hospital for its services. Once you're in a hospital, it's kind of too late but why would we blindly accept prices in healthcare but not anywhere else?

4) There is no way to predict how many people will enroll for Obamacare. But let's assume 2 million people sign up. Who is going to care for them? The Senate reported earlier this year that we are about 16,000 PCP short.
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Re: White House Report: Obamacare will cost you MORE

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Man Who Understands 8% Of Obamacare Vigorously Defends It From Man Who Understands 5%

As debate continues in Washington over the funding of President Obama’s health care initiative, sources confirmed Thursday that 39-year-old Daniel Seaver, a man who understands a total of 8 percent of the Affordable Care Act, offered a vehement defense of the legislation to 41-year-old Alex Crawford, who understands 5 percent of it.

“First of all, Obamacare will reduce insurance premiums for most people, and no one can be denied coverage if they have preexisting conditions and stuff like that,” said Seaver, displaying over half of his 8 percent grasp on the sweeping health care reform policy. “Which means a whole bunch of uninsured Americans—I’m talking millions of people here—will finally have access to health care. How can you not get behind that?”

“And Medicare has nothing to do with this, by the way—that’s a separate thing,” continued Seaver, adding one of the few remaining facts he knows about Obamacare. “This just deals with the private insurance companies and makes sure they can’t, you know, drive up costs through the roof.”

According to reports, Seaver mounted an impressive case given his severely limited knowledge of the actual law itself, bolstering his 8 percent understanding of the Affordable Care Act with his 6 percent awareness of the nation’s current economic landscape. Crawford, meanwhile, demonstrated just about the full extent of his understanding of Obamacare by claiming that its provisions could potentially kill jobs.

Sources confirmed that, if asked, neither man would actually be able to correctly define the term “HMO” or coherently explain what a health care exchange actually is and how such a thing would actually work on a regional basis.

“If you get insurance through your job, you can keep it, so this won’t affect a lot of people,” said Seaver, failing to incorporate roughly 90 percent of the bill’s actual groundwork into his semi-accurate assertion. “It’ll really only change things for really poor people who live below the poverty line. That’s it.”

“Saying this is somehow a government takeover of the healthcare industry is, quite frankly, a flat-out lie,” added Seaver, forcefully and passionately summarizing what he remembers from an informed person’s opinion he read on a website recently. “All this does is offer a public option.”

Over the course of the next half hour, the two men used their full comprehension of what reportedly amounts to several sentences at best of the Affordable Care Act to debate many facets of the 906-page piece of legislation. On separate occasions, sources said Seaver and Crawford both claimed to have done “a lot of research” on the subject.

“Okay, I hear your points, but I think there are a lot of other factors to consider,” said Crawford, boldly countering Seaver’s 8 percent knowledge of the subject with his own 5 percent familiarity with it. “It’s actually going to raise insurance costs for most people. The way it actually works is, see, there are different tiers. And these different tiers, or levels or whatever, have different co-payments. And then there’s the individual mandate, which means you’re required by law to get insurance, otherwise you pay higher taxes. So, you see, there are all these other things to think about.”

“Are you starting to get it?” Crawford added, after almost completely emptying his accumulated knowledge on the subject in one fell swoop. “It’s complicated, for sure.”

The two men, whose collective net understanding reportedly makes up, in a generous estimate, little more than one one-tenth of the entire Affordable Care Act, then repeatedly volleyed back and forth over the constitutionality of the law—a matter that sources confirmed they have a roughly 0.000001 percent knowledge of.

Sources also confirmed that the two men independently opted not to introduce at all the subjects of prescription drugs, the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, the law’s effect on small business owners, exemptions, state costs, specific penalties for opting out, effects on the marketplace, the nation’s existing overall quality of health care, any specific statistic whatsoever, and the federal budget.

“Hold on, Alex, let’s go back to the premiums for a second, because I feel like I need to drive this point home for you: they’ll get lower for most people,” said Seaver, straining the very limits of his 8 percent comprehension of the bill to the point of utter collapse. “Lower premiums, lower deductibles, and no denial of coverage to people with preexisting conditions.”

“Way lower premiums,” Seaver added.

At press time, both men’s understanding of Obamacare had dropped to 3 percent as a result of the debate.
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