11 vs. 13

[JohnStOnge]

D-II #11 West Alabama (http://www.d2football.com/top25poll/11/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) vs. FCS #13 McNeese State (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnf ... 5poll.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

This kind of game makes me very nervous. I'm not going to do it again but a few years back I looked at how D-II playoff teams did against I-AA/FCS teams during the 10 year period 1998 through 2007. The overall record of D-II teams that went on to make the playoffs vs. I-AA/FCS opponents was 43-29. There weren't many games between D-II playoff teams and I-AA/FCS playoff teams but for the games that were played the D-II playoff teams won such matchups a third of the time (4-8).

Bottom line is that it's clear that when you're playing a top D-II team you're not necessarily playing a sure win. Not necessarily a "rent-a-win" or a "cupcake."

Which reminds me of how it really bothers me that the NCAA playoff committee automatically considers a D-II to be an inferior opponent regardless of who the D-II is.

And I watched the replay of West Alabama's game this past weekend. They have athletes. They have speed. A lot of it. I am hoping that McNeese is able to just jump on them but I will not be surprised if this turns into a scary situation.

[Mvemjsunpx]

McNeese should obviously win this. Southland teams only seem to struggle against Lone Star teams, for whatever reason (UWA is Gulf South).

[JohnStOnge]

McNeese should obviously win this. Southland teams only seem to struggle against Lone Star teams, for whatever reason (UWA is Gulf South).

They should be favored. However, the Southland was actually 0.500 in games played against Gulf South Conference playoff teams during the period I looked at. Just two games and it was 1-1. Delta State beat Stephen F. Austin 17-14 in 2006 and Texas State beat Delta State 17-10 in 1998.

And, frankly, the Gulf South is the toughest D-II conference. It's tougher than the Lone Star. Or at least it's top teams are. All you need to do is look at how many national champs the Gulf South has to see that.

Now, McNeese did beat Delta State during the year after the 1998-2007 time frame I looked at. IN 2008 McNeese beat Delta State 52-27 and Delta State went on to make the D-II playoffs.

But we have things in history like Gulf South member Valdosta State clocking I-AA semifinalist Florida Atlantic by 45-17 in 2003. You never know until the game is played. But percentage wise there have been a lot of instances in which good I-AA/FCS teams have found that their top level D-II opponent is no cupcake at all.

[JohnStOnge]

Well McNeese squeaked it out 44-42 and was lucky to do it. West Alabama outgained the Cowboys 565 to 503 in total yards and outrushed them 265 to 97. 5.3 yards per carry vs. 2.7. West Alabama fumbled the ball away twice when on drives deep in McNeese territory; once around the 5 yard line and once around the 20 to 30. And a McNeese receiver had the ball bounce where he could get it after he fumbled on McNeese's game winning drive. He caught a pass for a first down and fumbled while being tackled. He was pinned to the ground so he couldn't go after the ball but it bounced so that he could stick his hand out and grab it. Then McNeese scored on a 20 yard pass with 46 seconds left on a 4th down and 4 situation.

Even then it wasn't over. West Alabama blocked the extra point so that a field goal would win it for them, they'd been moving the ball at will all night both on the ground and in the air, and they had three time outs left. But fortunately McNeese got two sacks on first and second down to make them use timeouts. Then when it got to fourth down their quarterback...who had been money all night...became mortal and missed an open receiver who would've made the first down.

Hacks me off that the NCAA playoff committee considers a win over a team like Arkansas Pine Bluff to be "better" than a win...lucky or not...over a team like the one McNeese played last night because Pine Bluff is Division I and West Alabama is Division II.

Whew! I'm glad that one's behind the Cowboys now.

[Grizalltheway]

Bottom line is you barely squeaked by a D-II team, and should be punished in the polls for it.

[JayJ79]

Hacks me off that the NCAA playoff committee considers a win over a team like Arkansas Pine Bluff to be "better" than a win...lucky or not...over a team like the one McNeese played last night because Pine Bluff is Division I and West Alabama is Division II.

Yes, that's how things were viewed in the past, but it may not necessarily be so now.

according to a news article from this past summer: https://secure.forumcomm.com/?publisher ... N=82426650" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NDSU finished its schedule, adding Ferris State (Mich.) for the Sept. 7 home opener. In prior years, a Division II opponent was considered a non-counter by the FCS playoff committee.

No longer.

In a surprise move that blindsided almost everybody including NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor, the FCS Championships Committee last week approved a new ratings system to gauge the quality of a team’s schedule. It will take into account games with Football Bowl Subdivision, FCS and Division II opponents.

Though that doesn't necessarily mean that they will gauge a West Alabama win as "better" than a Pine Bluff win, just that D2 wins are no longer automatic "non-counters". I'm not sure how they will factor in D2 teams into their "strength of schedule" formula. When comparing FBS and FCS teams, one could perhaps use Sagarin ratings as a benchmark, but I've never seen D2 included in those.

[JayJ79]

Bottom line is you barely squeaked by a D-II team, and should be punished in the polls for it.

remember when the Griz got beat by a D-II team in 2003?

[Grizalltheway]

Bottom line is you barely squeaked by a D-II team, and should be punished in the polls for it.

remember when the Griz got beat by a D-II team in 2003?

I do, and I also remember when we pushed UNI's shit in much more recently than that.

[JayJ79]

remember when the Griz got beat by a D-II team in 2003?

I do, and I also remember when we pushed UNI's shit in much more recently than that.

not seeing how that has anything to do with this discussion.

but I should have added something to my previous reply:
how harshly was Montana punished when they lost to a D-II team in 2003?

[JayJ79]

according to wiki, Montana dropped from #3 to #12 with that loss.

[Grizalltheway]

I do, and I also remember when we pushed UNI's shit in much more recently than that.

not seeing how that has anything to do with this discussion.

but I should have added something to my previous reply:
how harshly was Montana punished when they lost to a D-II team in 2003?

And I'm not sure what a game 10 years ago has to do with McNeese being punished for struggling against a D-II this season.

[kalm]

according to wiki, Montana dropped from #3 to #12 with that loss.

[uofmman1122]

according to wiki, Montana dropped from #3 to #12 with that loss.

Times were different back then.

That, and all we really had that season was our reputation.

2003 wasn't very fun.

[JohnStOnge]

Bottom line is you barely squeaked by a D-II team, and should be punished in the polls for it.

I know you're being somewhat tongue in cheek but, as I've posted many times: A D-II from the Gulf South Conference, Valdosta State, beat I-AA semfinallist Florida Atlatnic 45-17 in 2003. You play the top of the Gulf South Conference and you are taking your chances.

Another historical tidbit: Eastern Washington beat solid D-II program Central Washington by only 35-32 during Eastern Washington's 2010 national championship season. Like McNeese against West Alabama, the Eagles were outgained in yardage.

More history:

During Youngstown State's undefeated 1994 national championship season, the Penguins had all they could handle in beating Gulf South and national champ North Alabama 17-14. During Georgia Southern's 1990 national championship season, the Eagles beat Gulf South Conference Valdosta State by only 17-10. And the really big one came way back in 1980 when D-II national champ Cal Poly beat I-AA national champ Boise State 23-20.

The point is that when you are dealing with a top level D-II team you may not be dealing with a cupcake. You may be dealing with a team that can compete with anybody at the FCS level.

[JohnStOnge]

Though that doesn't necessarily mean that they will gauge a West Alabama win as "better" than a Pine Bluff win,

Too bad because, I assure you, West Alabama could name its score against Arkansas Pine Bluff if the two teams played. They could score 70 points against that team if they wanted to. At least. Only mercy would stop them.

It was a great football game though. Back and forth back and forth. Neither team ever had more than a 7 point lead. McNeese never led by more than 3. Over 1000 yards of offense between the two teams, etc. It's just a good thing that the McNeese quarterback stepped up and had an outstanding game of his own or McNeese would have had no shot. Their defense was not going to stop that team.

[uofmman1122]

We got shit from everyone (probably including you, John) for almost losing to "Top DII" Central Washington in 2008.

No sympathy.

[JohnStOnge]

We got **** from everyone (probably including you, John) for almost losing to "Top DII" Central Washington in 2008.

No sympathy.

Not me man. I follow intra-level competition and know that top D-IIs have done a whole hell of a lot better against I-AA/FCS than top level I-AA/FCS has done against I-A/FBS. My opinion is that there is not nearly as much difference between the top of D-II and the top of FCS ad there is between the top of FCS and the top of FBS.

I mean, think about it: There have been two games between D-II and I-AA national champs. The D-II champ won one of the games by 3 and the I-AA champ won one of the games by 3.

Central Washington is historically a tough D-II program and they had a playoff team in 2008. They finished the season 10-2 and their only loss other than to Montana was in a competitive 49-42 loss to West Texas A&M in the D-II playoffs. No way I'd rag anybody for struggling with them.

[JayJ79]

it seems that most FCS fans view D-II teams the way that most FBS fans view FCS teams.