Libertarians are the New Communists

[kalm]

Didn't you just chastize me for questioning the accuracy of an article based on the political leanings of the author?

That wasn't my intention at all...

IvyTalk said what I was thinking... I didn'tcommunicate it very well- he communicated it very well.

FWIW, I liked IT's response as well.

I also appreciated C-Grads response although I would submit that totalitarianism has an equal chance of coming from the right.

[Ivytalk]

Not sure how much new thought is in this piece, which I read in its entirety. The authors (one of whom worked for Clinton) set up the very "straw man" they purport to dismantle, in playing off "radical libertarianism" against communism, in order to set up a "golden mean" which reserves a role for government in promoting social well-being. The fact is that neither extreme works, and the authors are candid enough to recognize that. It will be interesting to see how much national traction Rand Paul gets, either within or beyond the GOP. For a new legislator, he's unusually in love with himself, and it's not at all clear that he'll be any more effective than his father was.

Rand Paul started from a different point than his father and under different circumstances. Ron Paul was a lone voice in the wind during an era of GOP vs. Dem politics. Today, libertarian ideas are gaining traction (thanks in large part to Ron Paul), so Rand is hardly a lone voice in the wind

The dichotomy is now different. There is a recognition that the difference between the GOP and Dems is largely limited to differences in rhetoric. The policies and results tend to be the same. We are now seeing a transition from GOP vs. Dem to libertarianism vs. statism/authoritarianism.

And how precisely is this "twilight of the gods" struggle between statists and Libertarians going to play out in the context of the two-party system? The libertarian strain of the GOP is still a fringe, in terms of elected officeholders, and the Tea Party types haven't ejected the Old Bulls, although the libertarians are making some gains with the likes of Rand Paul, Mike Lee of Utah, and Congressman Amash of MI. On the Democratic side, we are seeing more conservative types like Manchin of WVA and Heitkamp of ND to offset the Boxers and the Schumers. Parties still mean something, at least in
terms of fundraising and PR. The trend is toward relatively more state power or relatively less. Not the absolutes.

[kalm]

It is in failed states such as Somalia that libertarianism finds its fullest actual expression.

Another example. What's going on in Somalia is not Libertarianism. The authors are basically lying.

It's the best example of non-government intervention. It's the logical conclusion of your ideology, John. Just like North Korea is the logical conclusion of Marx/Obama's ideology.

[CID1990]

The recent shift towards Libertarianism is threatening to the establishment- both Dem and Repub- hence the hysteria and the zombies using terms like "extremist" in every other sentence.

As long as the million headed behemoth continues to grow and its ability to take care of people from cradle to grave concurrently dwindles, libertarian sentiment will continue to grow. I hope more people start calling Rand Paul an extremist.

[houndawg]

The recent shift towards Libertarianism is threatening to the establishment- both Dem and Repub- hence the hysteria and the zombies using terms like "extremist" in every other sentence.

As long as the million headed behemoth continues to grow and its ability to take care of people from cradle to grave concurrently dwindles, libertarian sentiment will continue to grow. I hope more people start calling Rand Paul an extremist.

Rand Paul's problem isn't that he's "extremist". His problem is that he is one creepy dude. He comes off much better on paper.

[ASUMountaineer]

The article is solidly from the left as it identifies Paul and Cruz as extremists, when in fact their opinions are widely held by most middle class folks.

Only to those extremist middle class folks. Cruz and Paul ARE extremists.

That's fair.

I'd also contend that anyone that follows a political party blindly is an extremist. Jon, you're an extremist.

[CitadelGrad]

Rand Paul started from a different point than his father and under different circumstances. Ron Paul was a lone voice in the wind during an era of GOP vs. Dem politics. Today, libertarian ideas are gaining traction (thanks in large part to Ron Paul), so Rand is hardly a lone voice in the wind

The dichotomy is now different. There is a recognition that the difference between the GOP and Dems is largely limited to differences in rhetoric. The policies and results tend to be the same. We are now seeing a transition from GOP vs. Dem to libertarianism vs. statism/authoritarianism.

And how precisely is this "twilight of the gods" struggle between statists and Libertarians going to play out in the context of the two-party system? The libertarian strain of the GOP is still a fringe, in terms of elected officeholders, and the Tea Party types haven't ejected the Old Bulls, although the libertarians are making some gains with the likes of Rand Paul, Mike Lee of Utah, and Congressman Amash of MI. On the Democratic side, we are seeing more conservative types like Manchin of WVA and Heitkamp of ND to offset the Boxers and the Schumers. Parties still mean something, at least in
terms of fundraising and PR. The trend is toward relatively more state power or relatively less. Not the absolutes.

There will be battles fought within the parties, especially the Republican Party. That's the whole point of the Tea Party movement. It's possible that the GOP will splinter and a third party will be formed. The statists/authoritarians already have control of the Dem. Party. I don't much of a battle taking place there. The more moderate Dems will probably drift over to join the establishment GOP or simply remain marginalized in a progressively progressive Dem. Party.

[Baldy]

The article is solidly from the left as it identifies Paul and Cruz as extremists, when in fact their opinions are widely held by most middle class folks.

Only to those extremist middle class folks. Cruz and Paul ARE extremists.

Only to an extremist on the other side of the political spectrum.

[houndawg]

And how precisely is this "twilight of the gods" struggle between statists and Libertarians going to play out in the context of the two-party system? The libertarian strain of the GOP is still a fringe, in terms of elected officeholders, and the Tea Party types haven't ejected the Old Bulls, although the libertarians are making some gains with the likes of Rand Paul, Mike Lee of Utah, and Congressman Amash of MI. On the Democratic side, we are seeing more conservative types like Manchin of WVA and Heitkamp of ND to offset the Boxers and the Schumers. Parties still mean something, at least in
terms of fundraising and PR. The trend is toward relatively more state power or relatively less. Not the absolutes.

There will be battles fought within the parties, especially the Republican Party. That's the whole point of the Tea Party movement. It's possible that the GOP will splinter and a third party will be formed. The statists/authoritarians already have control of the Dem. Party. I don't much of a battle taking place there. The more moderate Dems will probably drift over to join the establishment GOP or simply remain marginalized in a progressively progressive Dem. Party.

Time to switch to a Parlimentarian form of government where small parties have more voice.

[LeadBolt]

There will be battles fought within the parties, especially the Republican Party. That's the whole point of the Tea Party movement. It's possible that the GOP will splinter and a third party will be formed. The statists/authoritarians already have control of the Dem. Party. I don't much of a battle taking place there. The more moderate Dems will probably drift over to join the establishment GOP or simply remain marginalized in a progressively progressive Dem. Party.

Time to switch to a Parlimentarian form of government where small parties have more voice.

It might be easier to emigrate to a country with a Parlimentarian form of government than for you to get the USA to switch. I hear East Timor is nice this time of year...

[Baldy]

Another example. What's going on in Somalia is not Libertarianism. The authors are basically lying.

It's the best example of non-government intervention. It's the logical conclusion of your ideology, John. Just like North Korea is the logical conclusion of Marx/Obama's ideology.

Not even close. Somali is the poster child for Anarchy.

[houndawg]

Time to switch to a Parlimentarian form of government where small parties have more voice.

It might be easier to emigrate to a country with a Parlimentarian form of government than for you to get the USA to switch. I hear East Timor is nice this time of year...

See? That's the problem in the US: our "debate" is confined to a very narrow spectrum and anybody thinking wider than the acceptable spectrum of thought is "out of the mainstream". Doesn't matter whether the mainstream is working or not.

[ASUMountaineer]

It might be easier to emigrate to a country with a Parlimentarian form of government than for you to get the USA to switch. I hear East Timor is nice this time of year...

See? That's the problem in the US: our "debate" is confined to a very narrow spectrum and anybody thinking wider than the acceptable spectrum of thought is "out of the mainstream". Doesn't matter whether the mainstream is working or not.

On this, we agree.

[LeadBolt]

It might be easier to emigrate to a country with a Parlimentarian form of government than for you to get the USA to switch. I hear East Timor is nice this time of year...

See? That's the problem in the US: our "debate" is confined to a very narrow spectrum and anybody thinking wider than the acceptable spectrum of thought is "out of the mainstream". Doesn't matter whether the mainstream is working or not.

I'm not disputing your point on debate, but it was a joke. Ligthen up Francis

[houndawg]

See? That's the problem in the US: our "debate" is confined to a very narrow spectrum and anybody thinking wider than the acceptable spectrum of thought is "out of the mainstream". Doesn't matter whether the mainstream is working or not.

I'm not disputing your point on debate, but it was a joke. Ligthen up Francis

Yes I get it was a joke, and a true one. I don't see us ever really considering any different kind of guvmint, especially one that lets the little people into the debate, just pointing out how our national debate really isn't, that's all.

[BDKJMU]

Only to those extremist middle class folks. Cruz and Paul ARE extremists.

Only to an extremist on the other side of the political spectrum.

Beat me to it....

[kalm]

Only to an extremist on the other side of the political spectrum.

Beat me to it....

Paul and Cruz have prescribed a few very extremist ideas to fixing the system. Sometimes, that's what it takes. Extremism isn't always bad. Why do you weak ass conks run from it?

[death dealer]

The article is solidly from the left as it identifies Paul and Cruz as extremists, when in fact their opinions are widely held by most middle class folks.

Only to those extremist middle class folks. Cruz and Paul ARE extremists.

So, for clarity, anyone who disagrees with your far left dogma is an extremist? Check.

[death dealer]

I'm not disputing your point on debate, but it was a joke. Ligthen up Francis

Yes I get it was a joke, and a true one. I don't see us ever really considering any different kind of guvmint, especially one that lets the little people into the debate, just pointing out how our national debate really isn't, that's all.

Our form of guvmint certainly allows the little man a voice. It's the stupidity and strong tendency to sheephood of the general little man that keeps his voice from being heard.

[DSUrocks07]

Beat me to it....

Paul and Cruz have prescribed a few very extremist ideas to fixing the system. Sometimes, that's what it takes. Extremism isn't always bad. Why do you weak ass conks run from it?

"extreme left/right" still shares some of the values of the respective pragmatic positions. They are based in the belief held by those who fall of either side of the fence.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

[kalm]

Paul and Cruz have prescribed a few very extremist ideas to fixing the system. Sometimes, that's what it takes. Extremism isn't always bad. Why do you weak ass conks run from it?

"extreme left/right" still shares some of the values of the respective pragmatic positions. They are based in the belief held by those who fall of either side of the fence.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Huh?