2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Political discussions
Post Reply
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by JohnStOnge »

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... n-men.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the summary caption:
The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.
Not a lot of data cited. I don't know if the statement is really supported. But the discussion of insurance rates is kind of compelling. That at least suggests that Catholic Priests are not significantly different than clerics/officials of other denominations. Insurance companies put a lot of effort into assessing risk and don't play favorites unless they have to by law. And I don't think there's any law saying they can't charge Catholic churches more.
Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations...On average, the company says 80 percent of the sexual misconduct claims they get from all denominations involve sexual abuse of children. As a result, the more children's programs a church has, the more expensive its insurance, officials at Guide One said.
I must admit I'm among those who have believed that there's a higher risk associated with Catholic priests. Not saying one article completely changes my mind but it's something to think about.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JohnStOnge wrote:http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... n-men.html

Here's the summary caption:
The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.
Not a lot of data cited. I don't know if the statement is really supported. But the discussion of insurance rates is kind of compelling. That at least suggests that Catholic Priests are not significantly different than clerics/officials of other denominations. Insurance companies put a lot of effort into assessing risk and don't play favorites unless they have to by law. And I don't think there's any law saying they can't charge Catholic churches more.
Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations...On average, the company says 80 percent of the sexual misconduct claims they get from all denominations involve sexual abuse of children. As a result, the more children's programs a church has, the more expensive its insurance, officials at Guide One said.
I must admit I'm among those who have believed that there's a higher risk associated with Catholic priests. Not saying one article completely changes my mind but it's something to think about.

What the article fails to acknowledge is the sophistication and scale of the child rape scandal cover up orchestrated by the catholic church. There are no doubt thousands of priests who have not been caught or have died or disappeared. Throughout history, there have been perhaps hundreds of thousands of rapists and sadist in the church - this is not a recent phenomenon. The church is, and if nothing change, always will be a magnet for men and women who want to sexually and physically abuse children.

Ask even the staunchest catholic if they would allow their young son or daughter to be alone with a priest, unsupervised, for more than a few minutes and they will invariably and emphatically tell you "no fucking way." Then ask that same person if they allow their children to be unsupervised for hours with the neighbor girl or boy babysitter and they wouldn't give it a second thought.
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by JohnStOnge »

What the article fails to acknowledge is the sophistication and scale of the child rape scandal cover up orchestrated by the catholic church. There are no doubt thousands of priests who have not been caught or have died or disappeared. Throughout history, there have been perhaps hundreds of thousands of rapists and sadist in the church - this is not a recent phenomenon. The church is, and if nothing change, always will be a magnet for men and women who want to sexually and physically abuse children.

Ask even the staunchest catholic if they would allow their young son or daughter to be alone with a priest, unsupervised, for more than a few minutes and they will invariably and emphatically tell you "no **** way." Then ask that same person if they allow their children to be unsupervised for hours with the neighbor girl or boy babysitter and they wouldn't give it a second thought.
There's no way to tell if the Catholic Church has been more successful in hiding things from insurance companies than other denominations have been. But I do think the fact that insurance companies do not consider Catholic Priests to represent a higher risk is a significant piece of information if it's true. Again: Insurance companies are not interested in soft pedaling things or covering for people. It's all very objective and all they care about is how things affect their bottom lines.

What's interesting is that insurance companies, at least according to that article, have data suggesting risk associated with the Catholic church is equivalent to risk associated with other denominations yet we have not seen nearly as much in the media about other denominations. If insurance companies are calculating the risk as equivalent that means that cases involving other denominations are being observed by them at relative frequencies similar to the relative frequency associated with the Catholic Church. Yet if you judge by the media the Catholic Church stands out.

It's quite possible that this is another example of a case in which the impression created by the media is false and/or misleading. It could be that the Catholic Church, if the data are known, does not really "stand out" at all in terms of the relative frequency of sexual abuse in general or sexual abuse of minors in particular.

I have no qualm at all in saying that when I see insurance companies say something about risk I put more stock in that than I'd put in academics saying it. Insurance companies don't do what they do to publish papers in journals to boost their curricula vitae. They've got a real world, selfish motivation. Being as correct as possible matters directly to them and philosophy does not interfere.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JohnStOnge wrote:
What the article fails to acknowledge is the sophistication and scale of the child rape scandal cover up orchestrated by the catholic church. There are no doubt thousands of priests who have not been caught or have died or disappeared. Throughout history, there have been perhaps hundreds of thousands of rapists and sadist in the church - this is not a recent phenomenon. The church is, and if nothing change, always will be a magnet for men and women who want to sexually and physically abuse children.

Ask even the staunchest catholic if they would allow their young son or daughter to be alone with a priest, unsupervised, for more than a few minutes and they will invariably and emphatically tell you "no **** way." Then ask that same person if they allow their children to be unsupervised for hours with the neighbor girl or boy babysitter and they wouldn't give it a second thought.
There's no way to tell if the Catholic Church has been more successful in hiding things from insurance companies than other denominations have been. But I do think the fact that insurance companies do not consider Catholic Priests to represent a higher risk is a significant piece of information if it's true. Again: Insurance companies are not interested in soft pedaling things or covering for people. It's all very objective and all they care about is how things affect their bottom lines.

What's interesting is that insurance companies, at least according to that article, have data suggesting risk associated with the Catholic church is equivalent to risk associated with other denominations yet we have not seen nearly as much in the media about other denominations. If insurance companies are calculating the risk as equivalent that means that cases involving other denominations are being observed by them at relative frequencies similar to the relative frequency associated with the Catholic Church. Yet if you judge by the media the Catholic Church stands out.

It's quite possible that this is another example of a case in which the impression created by the media is false and/or misleading. It could be that the Catholic Church, if the data are known, does not really "stand out" at all in terms of the relative frequency of sexual abuse in general or sexual abuse of minors in particular.

I have no qualm at all in saying that when I see insurance companies say something about risk I put more stock in that than I'd put in academics saying it. Insurance companies don't do what they do to publish papers in journals to boost their curricula vitae. They've got a real world, selfish motivation. Being as correct as possible matters directly to them and philosophy does not interfere.
John, you don't know how business works.

First, almost all Catholic dioceses are insured by Catholic Mutual Group, or other Catholic groups. Again, consider the source and their record of immorality, lying, suppressing and concealing data. See below.

Second, the catholic church's horrific record of abusing children on a monumental scale has without a doubt caused an increase in sexual misconduct insurance rates not only for the church, but for all denominations who interact with children. They're paying the price for the gross misconduct of the catholic church. That insurance rates are applied uniformly amongst denominations is a result of greed and the insurance business model and nothing else.

The catholic church is a veritable Disney World for predators, pedophiles, perverts, sadist and assholes.
Catholic Church Insurance Provider Has List of Priests Too Risky To Insure
May 4, 2013 By Sara Lin Wilde 1

By now, you’re probably aware that the sexual abuse of minors by molester priests is quite possibly the biggest open secret in Catholic history. But just in case you had any doubts, here’s the latest from the Aussie press: Catholic Church Insurance, the insurance provider for the entire Australian arm of the institution and a Church-owned business in its own right, has a list of high-risk priests it refuses to cover because they’re just too likely to trigger abuse-related compensation claims.

The Catholic Church’s own insurance company says it has a list of people who it has refused to cover because of their actions. People who would have exposed the Church’s insurer to compensation claims. Today the big insurer admitted the list is used to directly reduce its liability.

That’s right. We’re talking about working priests who are able to serve in diocesan environments, even though the Church has enough information to flag them as uninsurable.
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JohnStOnge wrote: There's no way to tell if the Catholic Church has been more successful in hiding things from insurance companies than other denominations have been.
Well, here's some compelling evidence....
(CNN) -- The Archdiocese of Dublin and other Catholic Church authorities in Ireland covered up clerical child abuse until the mid-1990s, according to a government-commissioned report released Thursday.

The Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation's 720-page report said that it has "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up" from January 1975 to May 2004, the time covered by the report.

"The Dublin Archdiocese's pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets," the report said.

"The welfare of children, which should have been the first priority, was not even a factor to be considered in the early stages," it said.

"Instead the focus was on the avoidance of scandal and the preservation of the good name, status and assets of the institution and of what the institution regarded as its most important members -- the priests."

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin apologized Thursday in a news conference. "No words of apology can ever be sufficient," he said.
No women in leadership positions in the church. John, all things being equal, your insurance would charge a Methodist or Unitarian parish the same rate as a catholic diocese for sexual misconduct insurance? Yeah, I didn't think so.

John, you think this could affect insurance rates? Not reporting hundreds of incidents, threatening children with eternal damnation, buying or forcing silence? This is like you not reporting 10 serious car accidents last year.
"How many people accused of abuse are still sitting in parishes today?" she asked in a Thursday news conference.

The commission examined the histories of 46 priests, who were picked as a sample from 102 who had had complaints or suspicions of child abuse raised against them. Complaints from more than 320 children were leveled against the 46, the report said.

But it said that the number of children abused likely exceeded that.

"One priest admitted to sexually abusing over 100 children, while another accepted that he had abused on a fortnightly basis during the currency of his ministry which lasted for over 25 years," the report said.

"The total number of documented complaints recorded against those two priests is only just over 70."
I apologize again now from my heart and ask the forgiveness of those who have been so shamefully harmed
--Cardinal Connell

In its analysis of the 46 priests, the commission said that all four archbishops -- Archbishops John Charles McQuaid, Dermot Ryan, Kevin McNamara, and Desmond Connell -- who served during the time period covered by the report handled the child sexual abuse complaints "badly."

"Not one of them reported his knowledge of child sexual abuse to the Gardai (the Irish police force) throughout the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s," the report said.
One catholic funded article has you in the bag, huh? :ohno: :dunce:
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

GuideStar, one of the insurance companies you trust, tried force this Presbyterian church to do the catholic thing and lie, hide, delay and avoid accountability. Instead this noble church did the christ like or "uncatholic" thing and admitted its errors, asked for forgiveness and pledged to make amends - FIRST, not just when they know they'll lose the case and need to go into PR damage control.

Yeah I could see Guidestar charging them the "catholic rate." :ohno:

Church abuse cases and lawyers an uneasy mix
By Peter Eisler, USA TODAY

Updated 5/10/2011 10:55 AM |

VIENNA, Va. — When officials at Vienna Presbyterian Church decided to acknowledge the church's failures in handling reports of sexual abuse by a youth ministries director, they thought it might upset some in the congregation.
By H. Darr Beiser, USA TODAY

What surprised them was the admonishment from the church's insurance company. And it wasn't the church's lapses in responding to the abuse a half-decade ago that bothered the insurer — it was the church's plan to admit those lapses and apologize to the victims.

The insurance company's position was clear: On March 23, a lawyer hired by the company, GuideOne Insurance, sent a warning to church officials:

"Do not make any statements, orally, in writing or in any manner, to acknowledge, admit to or apologize for anything that may be evidence of or interpreted as (a suggestion that) the actions of Vienna Presbyterian Church … caused or contributed to any damages arising from the intentional acts/abuse/misconduct" by the youth director.

But in a letter sent to congregants the next day, the church's governing board, known as a Session, took a different course.

"Members of Staff and of Session are profoundly sorry that VPC's response after the abuse was discovered was not always helpful to those entrusted to our care," the letter said.

In a sermon the following Sunday, March 27, Pastor Peter James went further: "We won't hide behind lawyers. … Jesus said the truth will set us free."

Then, turning to a group of young women in the audience, he continued:

"Let me speak for a moment to our survivors," he said. "We, as church leaders, were part of the harm in failing to extend the compassion and mercy that you needed. Some of you felt uncared for, neglected and even blamed in this church. I am truly sorry … I regret the harm this neglect has caused you."

As churches nationwide struggle with disclosures of sexual abuse in their midst, many find inherent conflicts between the guidance they find in Scripture and the demands of the insurance companies and lawyers responsible for protecting them from legal claims.

Common religious tenets of atonement — admitting mistakes, accepting responsibility, apologizing — often run counter to the legal tenets of avoiding self-incrimination and preserving all avenues of defense against potential lawsuits.

"This sort of conflict is happening all the time," says Jack McCalmon, a lawyer whose company, the McCalmon Group, is hired by insurers to help churches set up abuse-prevention programs.

"The church is in the business of forgiveness, of being forthright and open and truthful, but that often creates liability in a world that's adversarial, in the judicial world," McCalmon says.

Meanwhile, he adds, insurers are in the business of limiting liability. "So, the insurance company has a contract with the church that says, 'If we're going to put our assets on the line, we want you to perform in a way that protects our assets and interests.'"

Church officials often face a wrenching dilemma: If they do what they feel is right in the eyes of God, they can put their church at risk of financial claims that could end its existence.

For the lawyers and insurers obligated to protect those churches, the decisions are equally difficult: If church officials make admissions that suggest liability for the damage caused by sexual abuse or other wrongdoing, the resulting claims could ravage the insurance company.

It's an issue that can fundamentally shape the way churches respond when they discover sexual abuse involving clergy or lay employees.

Since 2002, when reports of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in Boston made national headlines, scores of churches have wrestled with similar problems.

Dozens of lawsuits have been filed against churches by people alleging sexual abuse by clergy or church employees. Jury awards and settlements have ranged from tens of thousands of dollars to many millions.

In a 2007 case, the Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles agreed to pay $660 million to 500 people who alleged they were sexually abused by clergy.

A divide with the insurer

It has been five years since the Vienna Presbyterian congregation got a letter from church officials saying they'd learned that Eric DeVries, student ministries director, had "crossed the boundary of emotional and physical propriety in his relationship with female students."

In the years since, there have been many painful conversations, but so far no lawsuits.

DeVries, hired in 2001, resigned in September 2005 amid allegations that he forged romantic relationships with female students. Church officials reported him to authorities upon learning of the conduct, and he was charged with taking indecent liberties with a minor, a felony.

He later pleaded guilty to the lesser, misdemeanor charge of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and received a 12-month suspended jail sentence.

The church community reacted with a mix of disbelief, confusion and repulsion.

Some supported DeVries, even writing character references for his sentencing hearing. And, as the pastor's sermon noted, the church did little in the years that followed to help the students who said DeVries had mistreated them.

In 2009, the church began to re-examine what went wrong.

It was through that process, Pastor James said in his March 27 sermon, that church officials "became aware that we were not caring adequately for the victims of Eric's abuse."

The church formed a new ministry to care for those women and is setting up a program to educate its community in preventing, recognizing and responding to sexual abuse. The discussions also led to the decision to acknowledge failures in responding to the abuse, apologize to victims, and recommit the church to their care.

In letters and e-mails, GuideOne and a lawyer it hired to defend the church against possible claims raised increasingly adamant concerns about Vienna Presbyterian's approach. Church officials who were handling that matter responded with increasingly adamant refusals to let legal interests steer their decisions.

Among other things, the correspondence shows, the church balked at the idea of defending potential lawsuits by invoking the two-year statute of limitations or raising questions about the sexual histories of women who might file claims.

The conflict intensified when GuideOne learned that church officials were cooperating with The Washington Post on a story about the church's failures — a course the insurance company's lawyer had warned against.

In a Feb. 10 letter, GuideOne reminded the church of its contractual obligation to "cooperate with us to the fullest extent reasonably necessary" in protecting against potential claims.

The church's actions "have impeded our right to investigate the claims and the future defense of this matter," the letter warned. "Any failure … to comply with the conditions of the policy will jeopardize any future coverage available to Vienna Presbyterian Church."

The church stuck to its plan.

"The directions from the insurance company and its lawyer were clear and possibly correct from a legal perspective," says Peter Sparber, who is on a panel of elders handling issues related to the abuse. "They did their job, but as elders, we had to do ours. We still have lots of work cleaning up the mess created by Eric DeVries, but not following their legal advice was a good start."

'A very clear standard'

Officials at GuideOne declined interview requests.

"The situation with Vienna Presbyterian Church continues to evolve, and we have a policy to not comment on open claims," Sarah Buckley, a company spokeswoman, wrote in an e-mail.

Buckley noted that GuideOne offers clients extensive resources to help them respond to abuse cases. The company encourages churches to react with concern and compassion, report allegations to authorities, investigate and document all events, seek legal counsel, and encourage counseling for victims, she added.

But what happens when a church feels the need to do more — to apologize or accept some responsibility for the damage caused when one of its own emerges as a sexual abuser?

Satisfying those needs while shielding the church from liability "is the most delicate task of lawyering in this situation," says Robert Tuttle, a professor of law and religion at the George Washington University Law School.

"It's not unusual for (church officials) to think they did something wrong because they feel grief or guilt for what happened, when in truth they might not be legally responsible," Tuttle adds.

This often results in discussions between the church, the insurer and its lawyers to "find a way for the church to express the sense of the wrongness of the conduct and to be sorry it happened without inappropriately taking legal responsibility."

Both the church and the insurer have an interest in avoiding a potentially devastating lawsuit, but that doesn't mean they can find common ground.

Clergy and legal experts who have been involved in such cases say churches often struggle with the notion that they should let concerns about legal liability dictate the terms on which they apologize or hold themselves accountable.

"For a church, doing what is right is informed by our understanding of what God would have us do, so there's a very clear standard, articulated in Scripture," says Monsignor Edward Arsenault, president of the St. Luke Institute, a Catholic ministry in Silver Spring, Md., that offers mental health services to clergy.

Lawyers typically want to shape a church's response based on questions of intent and legal responsibility, says Arsenault, who has advised clergy struggling to chart a course in responding to abuse cases.

Churches, meanwhile, are more inclined to focus on concepts of "restorative justice," taking a more general, unencumbered view of what went wrong and how to make injured parties whole again.

'Do the right thing'

Ultimately, Arsenault adds, lawyers are advisers; the decisions clergy and congregants ultimately reach must be their own.

"I have dealt with instances where there was wrongdoing in the past and my church wanted to do the right thing, but a lawyer representing the insurance company said, 'No, you can't do that,'" Arsenault says. "My solution in that instance was, 'I'm going to do the right thing, and I believe you owe me coverage. And if you don't extend me coverage, I'm going to do it anyway, and then I'm going to come back and argue that you owe me coverage," after claims are settled.

But the risks of such a course are substantial: If a church loses its argument that its insurer is responsible for paying a claim, it could be left with a debt it can't afford. In a worst-case scenario, that could mean closing its doors.

There's no telling how often that sort of impasse occurs. Discussions between churches and their insurers on how to handle abuse cases are typically kept confidential, as are any resulting settlements.

In the case of Vienna Presbyterian, the church's decision to ignore the demands of GuideOne and its lawyer was as plain as The Washington Post's page 1 headline on the first Sunday of April: "A church seeking redemption; Riven by an abuse scandal, Vienna Presbyterian tries to do right by the women it says it failed."

Since the story ran, the rancorous discussion between the church and its insurer about potential liability has remained in limbo. And if no lawsuits are filed in connection with DeVries' abuse, it may never be resolved.

"We don't know what happens next," says Sparber, the church elder. "We'll just have to wait and see."
JoltinJoe
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7050
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by JoltinJoe »

Yes, it is a fact that a Catholic priest is no more likely to molest a child than anyone else. This has been documented by at least three scholarly sources.

Second, how can you say that the Catholic Church has been more successful than other groups in covering up abuse? The cover-up by the Catholic Church has to be the least successful cover-up ever.

The cover-ups by our local school boards -- now that has been a successful cover-up. A child is more likely to be molested in a public school than a Catholic school, but we hear nothing about it. And don't say that's because school boards report it to the police, but they certainly did not in times past. They handled it the same way everyone else did. The only reason the Church has been ground zero for this issue is because it documented what happened and then kept the records.
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JoltinJoe wrote:Yes, it is a fact that a Catholic priest is no more likely to molest a child than anyone else. This has been documented by at least three scholarly sources.

Second, how can you say that the Catholic Church has been more successful than other groups in covering up abuse? The cover-up by the Catholic Church has to be the least successful cover-up ever.

The cover-ups by our local school boards -- now that has been a successful cover-up. A child is more likely to be molested in a public school than a Catholic school, but we hear nothing about it. And don't say that's because school boards report it to the police, but they certainly did not in times past. They handled it the same way everyone else did. The only reason the Church has been ground zero for this issue is because it documented what happened and then kept the records.
Joe, it's a matter of scale. The catholic church has been trememdously successful in covering up abuse. The fact that they were able to keep the United States Government from from officially investigating them a la Australia, Ireland, Scotland is as horrifying as it is amazing.

Yeah, sure, they've taken some lumps, but their successes, immoral as they are, far outweigh them. I submit the bulk of your posts on this subject as additional proof. :thumb:
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by JohnStOnge »

No women in leadership positions in the church. John, all things being equal, your insurance would charge a Methodist or Unitarian parish the same rate as a catholic diocese for sexual misconduct insurance?
I interpret the article I referenced as saying the answer to that question is "yes." I interpret it as indicating that the big factor is not which domination it is but is, rather, how involved it is in youth activities. It appears to be saying that insurance companies do not consider the Catholic church to be higher risk than any other denomination.

One catholic funded article has you in the bag, huh?
I don't see any reason to think it's a Catholic funded article.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20316
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by JohnStOnge »

Another thing is that I don't see how we can assume that other persons and institutions don't also engage in covering up. I don't think we can rely on the media to provide an accurate perspective.

Of course it's a media source I'm using to reference what insurance companies say. But if it's true, known abuse among members of other churches has been occurring at relative frequency comparable to the rate at which it has been occurring among Catholics. Yet we've heard little or nothing about it. To me, that would be an example of media creating a false impression by virtue of what it chooses to emphasize.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JohnStOnge wrote:
No women in leadership positions in the church. John, all things being equal, your insurance would charge a Methodist or Unitarian parish the same rate as a catholic diocese for sexual misconduct insurance?
I interpret the article I referenced as saying the answer to that question is "yes." I interpret it as indicating that the big factor is not which domination it is but is, rather, how involved it is in youth activities. It appears to be saying that insurance companies do not consider the Catholic church to be higher risk than any other denomination.

One catholic funded article has you in the bag, huh?
I don't see any reason to think it's a Catholic funded article.
Again the catholic church, now, is essentially self insured, so you can't trust the data. It's in their monetary interest to make it look like they're no different than the rest. You and I both know they are different.

Until an independent, government funded study is conducted, I will never accept the catholic church is similar to other denominations or orgs. They've lost billions so far and they're an immense liability.
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

JohnStOnge wrote:Another thing is that I don't see how we can assume that other persons and institutions don't also engage in covering up. I don't think we can rely on the media to provide an accurate perspective.

Of course it's a media source I'm using to reference what insurance companies say. But if it's true, known abuse among members of other churches has been occurring at relative frequency comparable to the rate at which it has been occurring among Catholics. Yet we've heard little or nothing about it. To me, that would be an example of media creating a false impression by virtue of what it chooses to emphasize.
The article I referenced was a report quoting an official investigation by the Irish government.

Look at Abuse Tracker - they do a good job tracking em all, yet the catholic church continues to churn out serial pedophiles at a an amazing pace.

MOF, here's the latest apology...every day there is a new allegation of abuse.

SCOTLAND
The Guardian

Press Association
theguardian.com, Sunday 4 August 2013

One of Scotland's most senior Catholics has apologised to pupils amid claims of sexual and physical abuse by monks at a former boarding school in the Highlands.

Hugh Gilbert, the bishop of Aberdeen, said the allegations were "bitter, shaming and distressing" and that he supported the police inquiry.

Alleged victims who attended the Catholic Fort Augustus Abbey school told a BBC Scotland investigation that they were molested and beaten by monks over a period of three decades from the 1950s.

It has also been claimed that abuse was carried out at Carlekemp, its feeder school in East Lothian. Both schools are now closed.

Five men said on the Sins Of Our Fathers documentary, screened last Monday, that they were raped or sexually abused by Father Aidan Duggan, an Australian monk who taught at Carlekemp and Fort Augustus between 1953 and 1974.
Sometimes a duck is a duck, John.

You hear about the catholic church because they rape alot of children. Yes, it's that simple.
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

WIKI
From 2003 to 2009 nine other major settlements involving over 375 cases with 1551 claimants/victims, resulted in payments of over $1.1 billion USD.[note 2] The Associated Press estimated the settlements of sex abuse cases from 1950 to 2007 totaled more than $2 billion.[23] BishopAccountability puts the figure at more than $3 billion in 2012.[6][20] Addressing "a flood of abuse claims" five dioceses (Tucson, Arizona; Spokane, Washington; Portland, Oregon; Davenport, Iowa, and San Diego) got bankruptcy protection.[23] Eight Catholic dioceses have declared bankruptcy due to sex abuse cases from 2004-2011.[24]
And there's no end in sight. :nod:

Oh, sure, the catholic church is no different. Their sex abuse of children insurance rates should be the same as the methodist church. :thumb: :dunce:
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: 2010 Article: Priests not more likely to sexually abuse

Post by D1B »

More from the exploding rape and beatings of boys scandal in Scotland. This is breaking news.
THE “secret archives” of the Catholic Church in Scotland could contain allegations of sexual abuse by as many as 100 priests and other staff in cases stretching back 50 years, according to the former head of the Church’s working party on child protection.

Alan Draper, who compiled a report on “problem priests” in the nineties, dismissed the Church’s plans to publish annual audits of sexual abuse allegations against priests as “window dressing”.

The claims came on the day a bishop apologised for sex abuse at two Scottish schools run by the Church.

Retired social work director Mr Draper said an independent commission should be allowed access to the archives of each of the eight dioceses in Scotland.

As chairman of the Catholic Church’s working party on child protection, Mr Draper identifed 22 “problem priests” by analysing a ten-year period between 1985 and 1995. Based on that study, he believes records covering the past half century could identity as many as 100 priests and individuals associated with the Church who were accused of sexual abuse.

Yesterday, the retired deputy director of Stockport social work department said: “This organisation [the Church] now lacks all credibility.
Oh sure, If I was an insurance underwriter I'd charge the catholic church the same rates as the Methodist church. :thumb:
Post Reply