Zimmerman Trial

[BDKJMU]

I've been following this only from a distance, but my take:

* Zimmerman shouldn't have been packing
* Zimmerman should have backed off when he was instructed to do so by 911
* Zimmerman likely provoked the response from Martin
* Zimmerman got himself into a "stand your ground" situation from this provocation

That being said:
* The State had an opportunity to compile evidence and prepare an adequate case
* The prosecution either was (a) poorly prepared, or (b) had inadequate evidence to prepare a compelling case to a jury of his peers
* After weighing the evidence, a jury of his peers opted for no charges
* The justice system was followed

I don't like the idea that a kid is dead and a guy is walking around now scot free, but that's how the system worked for better or worse. His vigilante justice will likely be his own demise, even on the outside of a prison. I don't envy the situation he got himself into, because he'll never be able to keep from checking his back.

Pure speculation on your part. And one can just as easily speculate that:
-Martin provoked this by attacking Zimmerman, whether or not Martin jumped out from around a corner or behind a bush.
-It had nothing to do with stand your ground, but rather Zimmerman getting his a** beat, Martin threatening that he was going to kill him, and Zimmemrman fearing for his life.

[BDKJMU]

That ^ seems reasonable enough...
I still believe the precedent set by this case is going to have ramifications in the future

Do you think so? Did Casey Anthony's acquittal make it legal to kill your baby and get away with it? Did OJ Simpsons trial make it legal to murder your ex wife?

Bingo. Dback, hounddog, Chizzang and others on here claim this sets some bad precedent, esp against blacks, when in fact this case will have about as much bearing on confrontations in the future as OJ's did on killing your ex and Anthony's did on killing your baby.

[ASUG8]

I've been following this only from a distance, but my take:

* Zimmerman shouldn't have been packing
* Zimmerman should have backed off when he was instructed to do so by 911
* Zimmerman likely provoked the response from Martin
* Zimmerman got himself into a "stand your ground" situation from this provocation

* Nonsense...if you have a permit, you can carry. End of story. True, but he's community WATCH. You see an issue, you report it to the cops who have legal authority.
* 911 can only make suggestions...the person reporting the issue is the one in the best position to make that call. Using your superior 20/20 hindsight, the only reason you say Z should have backed off is because Trayvon decided to attack Z and things got messy (more so for Trayvon). If Z had followed Trayvon, or some other perp, and observed the suspect robbing/beating an old lady, you would be praising Z as a hero for his dedication and independent thinking. Lots of conjecture and a lot of if's that didn't actually happen - stick with what is alleged to have happened in your 20/20 hindsight analysis. Was Z legally authorized as community watchman to stop and question someone?
* Z did no such thing. You can't "provoke" me into doing something I don't already want to do. Z might have questioned Trayvon (certainly legal....Trayvon could have ignored Z), but Z certainly didn't attack Trayvon (the injuries were on Trayvon's fist, not Z's). "Provocation" is a pathetic argument because it takes a weak, willing person to be provoked. Someone following you around would probably be seen as provocative to most people and would lead to a confrontation - kind of like it did here. Provocation isn't really weak if you're talking about a teenager with some swagger because kids are always rational in their thoughts and actions, right? .
* SYG was not used. Z was attacked and defended himself...as should anyone. Poor choice of words on my part - I didn't mean to imply that SYG was used, but him following Martin around led to a confrontation that went badly and forced him into a self defense situation.

[ASUMountaineer]

Have they proven manslaughter, beyond a reasonable doubt? That's still tough, though I would be shocked if he can beat the manslaughter charge.

Why are you shocked?

Good Lord, really?

No one can predict what a jury will do, especially a jury of 6 women. I suspected that the jury may throw the prosecution a bone, especially knowing what potential backlash they could face, if they found him "not guilty." I never thought that the case against him was strong enough to justify a conviction, as noted in the part of my post that you didn't bold (I'm sure you just missed it), but that doesn't mean they jury won't make a decision that is counter to the evidence.

I'm glad that the jury approached this with a strong sense of legal justice.

[ASUMountaineer]

Glad it's over. Haven't paid much attention to it. Will not understand why it deserved to latched onto by both sides of the political spectrum. I understand why it's a bug deal for locals like bluebells and floridians... but, I couldn't give less of a **** about this case.

This, exactly. Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is beyond me...though, most of that blame lies at the feet of the MSM.

[Bronco]

http://www.elpasotimes.com/tablehome/ci ... om-sept-25


El Paso police officer dies after severe beating
By Chris Roberts/El Paso Times



Officer Jonathan Molina died today from injuries he sustained during...
An El Paso police officer allegedly knocked unconscious and then beaten violently by a 17-year-old died Friday morning at University Medical Center, police said.

Officer Jonathan Molina, 29, who did tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan with the Marine Corps, died a little more than nine days after suffering a fractured skull, internal head injuries and facial fractures.
The suspect, Juan Antonio Gonzalez, who had been arrested on suspicion of assaulting an officer, was charged with capital murder on Friday.

Based on three complaint affidavits, including one released Friday with the capital murder charge, here is what happened:

The incident started on Sept. 25 at 4:53 p.m. when Molina, who was off-duty, saw a young man scratch his personal vehicle with a piece of metal..

The silver Pontiac Grand Prix had "fresh" scratches on its right side, hood and bumper.
Molina left his home to confront Juan Antonio Gomez, who allegedly scratched the car. Police did not provide an age for Gomez, who, as of Friday afternoon, had not been charged with a crime.
Gomez, Gonzalez and the other youth, identified as Alan Medrano, 19, ignored Molina and kept walking east on the sidewalk next to Trowbridge.

Molina got into his car and followed them a way before parking in front of a home at 4120 Trowbridge.
After getting out of his car, Molina identified himself as a police officer and confronted Gomez.
Molina was "attempting to begin an investigation," the affidavit says.

Sometime during the confrontation, Molina asked a bystander to call 911.

The situation began to escalate when Gonzalez stepped between the officer and Gomez.
Molina "pushed" Gonzalez out of the way and redirected his attention to Gomez, the most recent affidavit says.

Then Gonzalez allegedly punched Molina in the face with his fist, stunning the officer.
Gonzalez then quickly grabbed Molina around his knees and jerked his legs upward, the affidavit says.

That caused Molina "to fall backwards and head first onto the concrete driveway," the affidavit says. The blow to Molina's head knocked him unconscious, it says.
Gonzalez then "squatted over (Molina) and began to beat (him) multiple times around the face and head," the affidavit says.

[ASUG8]

I've been following this only from a distance, but my take:

* Zimmerman shouldn't have been packing
* Zimmerman should have backed off when he was instructed to do so by 911
* Zimmerman likely provoked the response from Martin
* Zimmerman got himself into a "stand your ground" situation from this provocation

That being said:
* The State had an opportunity to compile evidence and prepare an adequate case
* The prosecution either was (a) poorly prepared, or (b) had inadequate evidence to prepare a compelling case to a jury of his peers
* After weighing the evidence, a jury of his peers opted for no charges
* The justice system was followed

I don't like the idea that a kid is dead and a guy is walking around now scot free, but that's how the system worked for better or worse. His vigilante justice will likely be his own demise, even on the outside of a prison. I don't envy the situation he got himself into, because he'll never be able to keep from checking his back.

Pure speculation on your part. And one can just as easily speculate that:
-Martin provoked this by attacking Zimmerman, whether or not Martin jumped out from around a corner or behind a bush.
-It had nothing to do with stand your ground, but rather Zimmerman getting his a** beat, Martin threatening that he was going to kill him, and Zimmemrman fearing for his life.

Pure speculation on your part. All of it. One guy knows what happened - maybe what he said was all true, partly true, not true at all.....

[YoUDeeMan]

* Nonsense...if you have a permit, you can carry. End of story. True, but he's community WATCH. You see an issue, you report it to the cops who have legal authority.
* 911 can only make suggestions...the person reporting the issue is the one in the best position to make that call. Using your superior 20/20 hindsight, the only reason you say Z should have backed off is because Trayvon decided to attack Z and things got messy (more so for Trayvon). If Z had followed Trayvon, or some other perp, and observed the suspect robbing/beating an old lady, you would be praising Z as a hero for his dedication and independent thinking. Lots of conjecture and a lot of if's that didn't actually happen - stick with what is alleged to have happened in your 20/20 hindsight analysis. Was Z legally authorized as community watchman to stop and question someone?
* Z did no such thing. You can't "provoke" me into doing something I don't already want to do. Z might have questioned Trayvon (certainly legal....Trayvon could have ignored Z), but Z certainly didn't attack Trayvon (the injuries were on Trayvon's fist, not Z's). "Provocation" is a pathetic argument because it takes a weak, willing person to be provoked. Someone following you around would probably be seen as provocative to most people and would lead to a confrontation - kind of like it did here. Provocation isn't really weak if you're talking about a teenager with some swagger because kids are always rational in their thoughts and actions, right? .
* SYG was not used. Z was attacked and defended himself...as should anyone. Poor choice of words on my part - I didn't mean to imply that SYG was used, but him following Martin around led to a confrontation that went badly and forced him into a self defense situation.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

* He did call and report. Then, he followed. Absolutely nothing, NOTHING, wrong with that.
* Speculation on my part? You're version was speculation. My version was what was revealed at the trial. And, of course, my other scenario was speculation...but other people have been praised for following perps, so why single out Z just because this time it turned out poorly for the perp? And then you say that someone has to have legal authorization to question someone? That was a joke, right? No one is allowed to ask a stranger questions unless they get legal authorization?
* Following someone leads to a confrontation only if the person being followed decides to take things into his/her own hands. Trayvon, who had a cell phone and decided to call Jabbette instead of the police, could have simply walked away. Z didn't use bad judgment, Trayvon did.
* Nonsense. Z was keeping an eye on what he considered a suspicious person. Nothing wrong with that. If the police came it would have been straightened out. It would have been funny if Trayvon had one 911 operator on the phone while Z had a different one. Instead, Trayvon got all roiled up at a "Cracker" following him and made a move that cost him his life.

[BDKJMU]

Glad it's over. Haven't paid much attention to it. Will not understand why it deserved to latched onto by both sides of the political spectrum. I understand why it's a bug deal for locals like bluebells and floridians... but, I couldn't give less of a **** about this case.

This, exactly. Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is beyond me...though, most of that blame lies at the feet of the MSM.

It shouldn't be beyond you. Its glaringly obvious. You stated one yourself, the MSM. Below are just SOME of the NUMEROUS examples:
-NBC's attempt to make Zimmerman look like a racist by intentionally doctoring the 911 call tape.
-ABC originally claiming Zimmerman had no visible signs of injury based on a fuzzy video that later, when enhanced, clearly showed wounds to his head.
-CNN isolating part of a 911 call and speculating Zimmerman could be heard in the background calling Martin a racial slur, when in fact he did no such thing.
-MSM never mentioning the fact that at the time of the shooting, Martin was visiting Zimmerman's townhouse complex from Miami, where he'd been suspended from school after officials found burglary tools and allegedly stolen jewelry in his backpack.
-MSM never mentioning that police had previously detained Martin for pot, firearms and defacing school property.
-MSM never mentioning that Martin had allegedly been involved in prior assaults, when they at the same time had no problem mentioning anything alledged involving Zimmerman.
-MSM continously pointing out Zimmerman was white and never mentioning he was hispanic.
-MSM showing pics of Martin as a 13 yr old, and Zimmerman from his only prior arrest mugshot that was years before, making it look like a grown man killed a little boy.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... htm?p=full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also race baiters like Jessee Jackson and Al Hymietown Sharpton share as much blame as the MSM.

Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is glaringly obvious.

[BDKJMU]

Pure speculation on your part. And one can just as easily speculate that:
-Martin provoked this by attacking Zimmerman, whether or not Martin jumped out from around a corner or behind a bush.
-It had nothing to do with stand your ground, but rather Zimmerman getting his a** beat, Martin threatening that he was going to kill him, and Zimmemrman fearing for his life.

Pure speculation on your part. All of it. One guy knows what happened - maybe what he said was all true, partly true, not true at all.....

And on your part it was pure speculation. All of it.

[BDKJMU]

Zimmerman lawyer to move ‘asap’ against NBC News
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... -nbc-news/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good. Of all the media bias against Zimmerman, NBC was the most egregious...

[ASUG8]

Pure speculation on your part. All of it. One guy knows what happened - maybe what he said was all true, partly true, not true at all.....

And on your part it was pure speculation. All of it.

Exactly. You, like everyone else, know what Zimmerman told you. Don't pretend you know more. All I'm really sure of is that a kid died and Z said he did it. What transpired to get to that point is speculation.

[ASUMountaineer]

This, exactly. Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is beyond me...though, most of that blame lies at the feet of the MSM.

It shouldn't be beyond you. Its glaringly obvious. You stated one yourself, the MSM. Below are just SOME of the NUMEROUS examples:
-NBC's attempt to make Zimmerman look like a racist by intentionally doctoring the 911 call tape.
-ABC originally claiming Zimmerman had no visible signs of injury based on a fuzzy video that later, when enhanced, clearly showed wounds to his head.
-CNN isolating part of a 911 call and speculating Zimmerman could be heard in the background calling Martin a racial slur, when in fact he did no such thing.
-MSM never mentioning the fact that at the time of the shooting, Martin was visiting Zimmerman's townhouse complex from Miami, where he'd been suspended from school after officials found burglary tools and allegedly stolen jewelry in his backpack.
-MSM never mentioning that police had previously detained Martin for pot, firearms and defacing school property.
-MSM never mentioning that Martin had allegedly been involved in prior assaults, when they at the same time had no problem mentioning anything alledged involving Zimmerman.
-MSM continously pointing out Zimmerman was white and never mentioning he was hispanic.
-MSM showing pics of Martin as a 13 yr old, and Zimmerman from his only prior arrest mugshot that was years before, making it look like a grown man killed a little boy.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... htm?p=full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also race baiters like Jessee Jackson and Al Hymietown Sharpton share as much blame as the MSM.

Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is glaringly obvious.

Quit being obtuse and dense.

Every example you gave, save one, was from the MSM which I mentioned...nothing new in your post. Yes, obviously folks like Sharpton and Jackson played into it, but their audience is limited.

[BDKJMU]

It shouldn't be beyond you. Its glaringly obvious. You stated one yourself, the MSM. Below are just SOME of the NUMEROUS examples:
-NBC's attempt to make Zimmerman look like a racist by intentionally doctoring the 911 call tape.
-ABC originally claiming Zimmerman had no visible signs of injury based on a fuzzy video that later, when enhanced, clearly showed wounds to his head.
-CNN isolating part of a 911 call and speculating Zimmerman could be heard in the background calling Martin a racial slur, when in fact he did no such thing.
-MSM never mentioning the fact that at the time of the shooting, Martin was visiting Zimmerman's townhouse complex from Miami, where he'd been suspended from school after officials found burglary tools and allegedly stolen jewelry in his backpack.
-MSM never mentioning that police had previously detained Martin for pot, firearms and defacing school property.
-MSM never mentioning that Martin had allegedly been involved in prior assaults, when they at the same time had no problem mentioning anything alledged involving Zimmerman.
-MSM continously pointing out Zimmerman was white and never mentioning he was hispanic.
-MSM showing pics of Martin as a 13 yr old, and Zimmerman from his only prior arrest mugshot that was years before, making it look like a grown man killed a little boy.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... htm?p=full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also race baiters like Jessee Jackson and Al Hymietown Sharpton share as much blame as the MSM.

Why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country is glaringly obvious.

Quit being obtuse and dense.

Every example you gave, save one, was from the MSM which I mentioned...nothing new in your post. Yes, obviously folks like Sharpton and Jackson played into it, but their audience is limited.

Being dense is asking why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country when it is glaringly obvious.

And Sharpton's, Jackson's and those of their ilk audiences may be limited, but its still a good chunk of the country.

[houndawg]

No evidence who threw the first punch is what you mean. You have the word of a proven liar against that of a dead juvenile.

Changed his story at least twice, BDKFKHD. Once when he told the cops he wasn't following TM, but looking for a street sign. And again when he lied and said he didn't know about the SYG law. If Zimm had been shot by TM you would be bleating at the top of your lungs about these "inconsistencies".

Stupid conk fvck.

[Gil Dobie]

Robert Zimmerman Says.........

[YoUDeeMan]

G-dammit! Chiz and ASUG8 are correct.

Now we have some vigilante punks taking the law into their own hands and confronting suspected criminals.

The kid should have just sat home and let the police handle it. Sakes alive, someone could have been kilt...and what if the perps were white!!

"Temar Boggs was hanging out in his Pennsylvania neighborhood when he heard that officers were looking for a reportedly kidnapped 5-year-old girl. Boggs, 15, and his friends got on their bikes and joined the search. "I had the gut feeling that I was going to find the little girl," Boggs said. After first checking the woods and along a creek, Boggs spotted a maroon car that started backtracking through the neighborhood, presumably to avoid a group of officers. He caught up to the car, causing the driver to stop and push the girl out. Boggs scooped her up and delivered her to the police. "I'm just a normal person," he said."

And the punk has the nerve to say he is just a normal person. Uh-uh, there lil' feller...according to ASUG8, you ain't supposed to go hunting down no bad guys.

http://now.msn.com/temar-boggs-15-rescu ... nnsylvania" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ASUMountaineer]

Quit being obtuse and dense.

Every example you gave, save one, was from the MSM which I mentioned...nothing new in your post. Yes, obviously folks like Sharpton and Jackson played into it, but their audience is limited.

Being dense is asking why this was turned into a case of social justice for the entire country when it is glaringly obvious.

And Sharpton's, Jackson's and those of their ilk audiences may be limited, but its still a good chunk of the country.

Clearly I was using an expression to portray derision, but that either went above your head or you were being dense. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the latter.

I'm not sure why you act like we're in disagreement. Accept that we are actually in agreement and quit looking for an argument, D1BDKJMU.

[ASUMountaineer]

Changed his story at least twice, BDKFKHD. Once when he told the cops he wasn't following TM, but looking for a street sign. And again when he lied and said he didn't know about the SYG law. If Zimm had been shot by TM you would be bleating at the top of your lungs about these "inconsistencies".

Stupid conk fvck.

You're the worst kind of partisan hack. This case isn't a partisan issue, but you can't help yourself.

[ASUG8]

G-dammit! Chiz and ASUG8 are correct.

Now we have some vigilante punks taking the law into their own hands and confronting suspected criminals.

The kid should have just sat home and let the police handle it. Sakes alive, someone could have been kilt...and what if the perps were white!!

"Temar Boggs was hanging out in his Pennsylvania neighborhood when he heard that officers were looking for a reportedly kidnapped 5-year-old girl. Boggs, 15, and his friends got on their bikes and joined the search. "I had the gut feeling that I was going to find the little girl," Boggs said. After first checking the woods and along a creek, Boggs spotted a maroon car that started backtracking through the neighborhood, presumably to avoid a group of officers. He caught up to the car, causing the driver to stop and push the girl out. Boggs scooped her up and delivered her to the police. "I'm just a normal person," he said."

And the punk has the nerve to say he is just a normal person. Uh-uh, there lil' feller...according to ASUG8, you ain't supposed to go hunting down no bad guys.

http://now.msn.com/temar-boggs-15-rescu ... nnsylvania" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cudos to the normal guy who got involved in an active crime in progress and helping to stop a kidnapping. The police would likely advise the public against it due to potential danger, but it worked out for the best this time.

The difference here is that a crime had already been committed. To my knowledge nothing had happened in the Zimmerman case for Zim to intervene or begin questioning anyone. Nice try, but it's a pretty weak analogy . I'm not sure you got your money's worth out of that online weekend law school you took over the last couple of days.

[LeadBolt]

Pat Buchanan raises some interesting questions in his editorial on this.

http://news.yahoo.com/not-guilty-beyond ... 00611.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[houndawg]

Changed his story at least twice, BDKFKHD. Once when he told the cops he wasn't following TM, but looking for a street sign. And again when he lied and said he didn't know about the SYG law. If Zimm had been shot by TM you would be bleating at the top of your lungs about these "inconsistencies".

Stupid conk fvck.

You're the worst kind of partisan hack. This case isn't a partisan issue, but you can't help yourself.

I've said a half dozen times that the jury got their part right.


The real partisan hacks are the ones that are swallowing a proven liars story without a shred of skepticism, regardless of what effect it would or wouldn't have had on the outcome.

[ASUMountaineer]

You're the worst kind of partisan hack. This case isn't a partisan issue, but you can't help yourself.

I've said a half dozen times that the jury got their part right.


The real partisan hacks are the ones that are swallowing a proven liars story without a shred of skepticism, regardless of what effect it would or wouldn't have had on the outcome.

You're the only one that brought up "conk" or "donk."

I'm amazed at how few people can actually keep politics and race out of their observation of this media circus of a trial (MSM - 1, Society - O).

I'm glad you're able to accept that the jury made the right decision, despite you're passionate disdain for Zimmerman--it's almost as if he personally harmed you. While I agree that Zimmerman is certainly guilty of bad judgment and choices, that doesn't make him guilty of murder. In addition, neither does being a "proven liar." Zimmerman didn't have to prove that he was telling the truth, the prosecution had to prove that he was guilty of murder. Those are two different things.

Please keep in mind that this is not meant to be a defense of Zimmerman, he only matters to me in a concept that you mentioned earlier: that it's better for a guilty person to be exonerated, than an innocent person to be convicted.

This case should have never become as racially and politically charged as it did. Your posts demonstrate that you have clearly bought into that hook, line, and sinker.

[AZGrizFan]

G-dammit! Chiz and ASUG8 are correct.

Now we have some vigilante punks taking the law into their own hands and confronting suspected criminals.

The kid should have just sat home and let the police handle it. Sakes alive, someone could have been kilt...and what if the perps were white!!

"Temar Boggs was hanging out in his Pennsylvania neighborhood when he heard that officers were looking for a reportedly kidnapped 5-year-old girl. Boggs, 15, and his friends got on their bikes and joined the search. "I had the gut feeling that I was going to find the little girl," Boggs said. After first checking the woods and along a creek, Boggs spotted a maroon car that started backtracking through the neighborhood, presumably to avoid a group of officers. He caught up to the car, causing the driver to stop and push the girl out. Boggs scooped her up and delivered her to the police. "I'm just a normal person," he said."

And the punk has the nerve to say he is just a normal person. Uh-uh, there lil' feller...according to ASUG8, you ain't supposed to go hunting down no bad guys.

http://now.msn.com/temar-boggs-15-rescu ... nnsylvania" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Something about this story doesn't add up. The guy kidnaps a 5-year old from her front yard and TWO HOURS LATER is still driving around the neighborhood with her?

The guy has her in a CAR, and two kids on BIKES catch up to him? Was he driving a Model A?

[YoUDeeMan]

Something about this story doesn't add up. The guy kidnaps a 5-year old from her front yard and TWO HOURS LATER is still driving around the neighborhood with her?

The guy has her in a CAR, and two kids on BIKES catch up to him? Was he driving a Model A?

C'mon, Z...the hero was black. Those mofos are FAST!