Supreme Court and Affirmative Action

[GannonFan]

Am I reading this right? SCOTUS in a 7-1 decision punted it back to the 5th Circuit, saying the 5th had to determine whether or not UT's race-conscious admissions program met a very strict standard (that schools will presumably have a much tougher time meeting). If it doesn't, race based AA will no longer be allowed. So this means it will be back before the 5th Circuit next year, and possibly the Supreme Ct again in 2015?

So does it look like AA is on life support for maybe another couple of years, but prospects are slim for it surviving past that?

It'll be sooner than that - there's another case the Court is likely to take up in the next term that might be easier to make a broader ruling. There'll be another SCOTUS ruling on this in less than 12 months from now.

[JohnStOnge]

Too bad we have to have this because some azz holes can't or refuse to hire the best person.

We have this because egalitarians, as the cliche goes, think in terms of equal results. They assume that if everything was fair and people really did end up where they end up based on ability, drive, etc., the proportions in different racial groups in each particular job, profession, or student slot would be close to the proportions of those groups in the general population.

And there's absolutely no basis for believing that. In fact there is a lot more basis for believing it would NOT turn out that way.

[JohnStOnge]

etermine whether UT has proven that its admission program is narrowly tailored to accomplish the purpose of diversity or whether there are race neutral alternatives that would produce the educational benefits of diversity at the University of Texas.

The "diversity" hoax really pisses me off. I saw that develop over time. The first time I ever saw that excuse used I was watching a news talk show with Mary Francis Berry on it. She argued that being Black was a qualification in itself because being Black contributes to "diversity" and "diversity" helps the White people in the group to function better. That was in the early 90s.

And I thought at the time, "What a convoluted line of crap." But it worked.

This is what had happened, in my opinion: It had become clear that the egalitarian ideal of having Blacks in proportions comparable to the proportion of Blacks in the population in certain areas was not going to be realized through the application of objective, equal competition. So another excuse for doing things like admitting them to universities that they wouldn't be admitted to if they weren't Black was needed.

And they came up with the "diversity" excuse. Academics set about developing a case for saying there are educational benefits to "diversity." Mind you, it was not and is not an objective assessment of the overall impact of doing what they're doing. It was and is starting off with a desire to admit "under represented minority" groups in greater numbers then crafting "research" to justify it.

To say that a more objectively qualified White (or Asian) student should be denied admission to a University so that the slot can be given to a member of an "under represented minority" with the aim of providing the purported "educational benefits of diversity" to the White (or Asian) students who DID get admitted is absurd. But that's what's going on.

[YoUDeeMan]

Affirmative Action is for weaklings.

[Pwns]

And they came up with the "diversity" excuse. Academics set about developing a case for saying there are educational benefits to "diversity." Mind you, it was not and is not an objective assessment of the overall impact of doing what they're doing. It was and is starting off with a desire to admit "under represented minority" groups in greater numbers then crafting "research" to justify it.

To say that a more objectively qualified White (or Asian) student should be denied admission to a University so that the slot can be given to a member of an "under represented minority" with the aim of providing the purported "educational benefits of diversity" to the White (or Asian) students who DID get admitted is absurd. But that's what's going on.

Yup...if you have race-based admissions that are intended to achieve some level of diversity, aren't you essentially using illegal quotas without calling it quotas? Seems pretty obvious to me.

It's also interesting that the best way to achieve diversity is to have a rainbow of skin tones. After all, it's what's on the inside that counts and not the outside, right?

[mrklean]

It is because of the lack of opportunity and rejection of minorities by whites in the first place that AA is needed. There are still plenty of racists in position of power that make AA still necessary today. WE are getting better as a society, but not there yet.

So let's hire less qualified minorities and discriminate against more capable white candidates. That's perfect.

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

[ASUG8]

So let's hire less qualified minorities and discriminate against more capable white candidates. That's perfect.

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

So your point is that we as a country have not progressed to the point yet where minorities will be hired based solely on their abilities? That the predominantly white management will overlook qualified applicants so they can hire people who look like them?

[Ibanez]

So let's hire less qualified minorities and discriminate against more capable white candidates. That's perfect.

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

That's what you are saying. You keep harping on the "best person" line but you don't even realize that AA if about minority quotas. It has nothing do with the best candidate for a job.

[Ibanez]

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

So your point is that we as a country have not progressed to the point yet where minorities will be hired based solely on their abilities? That the predominantly white management will overlook qualified applicants so they can hire people who look like them?

Maybe certain minority groups (and their familes), as a whole, should put more value on education and keep the kids out of trouble.

High School Graduation Rates

Asians - 81%
Whites - 80%
Hispanics - 68% (up 16 points from last year)
Blacks - 62% (up 13 points from last year)
Native Americans - 51.1%

It's even worse for college (first time, bachelor students)

Asians - 69%
Whites - 62%
Hispanics - 50%
Blacks - 39%
Native Americans - 39%

[mrklean]

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

That's what you are saying. You keep harping on the "best person" line but you don't even realize that AA if about minority quotas. It has nothing do with the best candidate for a job.

FVCK a Quota !!!!!!, Thats what I have been preaching from day one. Hire the Best person for the job. But does that Happen....HELL NO!!!!! Public Safty Job are the worst when it comes this. This is why you have that stupid Quota. This would not be needed if they hired the Best Person.

[Ibanez]

That's what you are saying. You keep harping on the "best person" line but you don't even realize that AA if about minority quotas. It has nothing do with the best candidate for a job.

FVCK a Quota !!!!!!, Thats what I have been preaching from day one. Hire the Best person for the job. But does that Happen....HELL NO!!!!! Public Safty Job are the worst when it comes this. This is why you have that stupid Quota. This would not be needed if they hired the Best Person.

Let me begin with saying that your post is proof that more education is needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire you if they read that (and i'm making an educated guess that you probably speak the same way, i.e. you don't conjugate verbs.) Second, is it "racism" if the bet person is the more educated white person? No. People confuse racism with reality. That's not to say that there aren't highly qualified minorities, there most certainly are.

[mrklean]

FVCK a Quota !!!!!!, Thats what I have been preaching from day one. Hire the Best person for the job. But does that Happen....HELL NO!!!!! Public Safty Job are the worst when it comes this. This is why you have that stupid Quota. This would not be needed if they hired the Best Person.

Let me begin with saying that your post is proof that more education is needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire you if they read that (and i'm making an educated guess that you probably speak the same way, i.e. you don't conjugate verbs.) Second, is it "racism" if the bet person is the more educated white person? No. People confuse racism with reality. That's not to say that there aren't highly qualified minorities, there most certainly are.

remember this your "Masa on the Plantation" attitude is the reason why we have AA. Keep acting this way, and it will never go away. Answer this, how many Black people work in your department??

[Ibanez]

Let me begin with saying that your post is proof that more education is needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire you if they read that (and i'm making an educated guess that you probably speak the same way, i.e. you don't conjugate verbs.) Second, is it "racism" if the bet person is the more educated white person? No. People confuse racism with reality. That's not to say that there aren't highly qualified minorities, there most certainly are.

remember this your "Masa on the Plantation" attitude is the reason why we have AA. Keep acting this way, and it will never go away. Answer this, how many Black people work in your department??

You are too dumb to realize that I agree with your premise, the best qualified person should get the job. I don't agree that legislation should require hiring certain races. I don't agree that well qualified blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc.. should be passed over because the manager is a racist prick. I'm not acting in any bad way. If you continue to show little to no education in your everyday communication, then the stereotype will continue.

Btw, I don't have a department nor do I work in one. Out of 200 people, i'd say we have about 25 black people, a few Asians and Hispanics. But by your standards, those black people are sell outs because they went to college, wear clothes that fit and speak in an intelligent and coherent manner.

[mrklean]

remember this your "Masa on the Plantation" attitude is the reason why we have AA. Keep acting this way, and it will never go away. Answer this, how many Black people work in your department??

You are too dumb to realize that I agree with your premise, the best qualified person should get the job. I don't agree that legislation should require hiring certain races. I don't agree that well qualified blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc.. should be passed over because the manager is a racist prick. I'm not acting in any bad way. If you continue to show little to no education in your everyday communication, then the stereotype will continue.

Btw, I don't have a department nor do I work in one. Out of 200 people, i'd say we have about 25 black people, a few Asians and Hispanics. But by your standards, those black people are sell outs because they went to college, wear clothes that fit and speak in an intelligent and coherent manner.

When have I ever said this????????

[Ibanez]

You are too dumb to realize that I agree with your premise, the best qualified person should get the job. I don't agree that legislation should require hiring certain races. I don't agree that well qualified blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc.. should be passed over because the manager is a racist prick. I'm not acting in any bad way. If you continue to show little to no education in your everyday communication, then the stereotype will continue.

Btw, I don't have a department nor do I work in one. Out of 200 people, i'd say we have about 25 black people, a few Asians and Hispanics. But by your standards, those black people are sell outs because they went to college, wear clothes that fit and speak in an intelligent and coherent manner.

When have I ever said this????????

This is based off of my experience and relationships. You've never said it on here but you have a pattern for racism. See my signature.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Affirmative action is for weaklings.

This

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Affirmative Action is about accepting the best person. It's about accepting the right amount of minorities to keep racists groups like the NAACP and the Rainbow Coalition off their backs.

It is because of the lack of opportunity and rejection of minorities by whites in the first place that AA is needed. There are still plenty of racists in position of power that make AA still necessary today. WE are getting better as a society, but not there yet.

Are we?

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Affirmative Action is about accepting the best person. It's about accepting the right amount of minorities to keep racists groups like the NAACP and the Rainbow Coalition off their backs.

If we got away from Affirmative Action, do you think the BEST person would get hired??

I'm just waiting for his answer

It all depends on who applies.

There are lots of reasons pro or con to hire a person. I usually go by their political affiliation.....if you let out you lean left you won't be working for me regardless of your qualifications.

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

So let's hire less qualified minorities and discriminate against more capable white candidates. That's perfect.

Who the Hell is saying this? I only want the best person for the job. I can look at my line of work. Law Enforcement and if it were not for AA, The FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA NSA would be 100% white. Even in 2013 we still have problems with minoroities working Law Enforcement at the Federal level.

Because most of them are locked up or making more money dealin?

I call BS

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[mrklean]

When have I ever said this????????

This is based off of my experience and relationships. You've never said it on here but you have a pattern for racism. See my signature.

That is true. And the only pattern of Racism is from you. I just tell the truth as I see it. And I dare you to find fault in anything I have posted.

Secondly, name me any other minority group that has invested more in education that African Americans. We have over 100 HBCU's across this country plus the PWI colleges. So from your statement, black people dont graduate High School nor do we attend College..............

[mrklean]

If we got away from Affirmative Action, do you think the BEST person would get hired??

I'm just waiting for his answer

It all depends on who applies.

There are lots of reasons pro or con to hire a person. I usually go by their political affiliation.....if you let out you lean left you won't be working for me regardless of your qualifications.
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WHY?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

It all depends on who applies.

There are lots of reasons pro or con to hire a person. I usually go by their political affiliation.....if you let out you lean left you won't be working for me regardless of your qualifications.
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WHY?

Because I don't like lawsuits or unions and I want productivity. Simple really

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[Ibanez]

This is based off of my experience and relationships. You've never said it on here but you have a pattern for racism. See my signature.

That is true. And the only pattern of Racism is from you. I just tell the truth as I see it. And I dare you to find fault in anything I have posted.

Secondly, name me any other minority group that has invested more in education that African Americans. We have over 100 HBCU's across this country plus the PWI colleges. So from your statement, black people dont graduate High School nor do we attend College..............

No racism from me. You've just been conditioned by your culture to think that everything a white man says is racist. We will not have progress until certain white and black people stop seeing white and black and start seeing the person. We won't have progress until people take responsibility for their actions and their futures. Besides, having HBCUs isn't an accurate measure of education investment and I never said blacks don't graduate high school or attend college. I showed the rates of graduation. You lack reading comprehension.


Btw, the graduation rate of Asians signifies that they invest more time, money and energy into education than black people.

[mrklean]

That is true. And the only pattern of Racism is from you. I just tell the truth as I see it. And I dare you to find fault in anything I have posted.

Secondly, name me any other minority group that has invested more in education that African Americans. We have over 100 HBCU's across this country plus the PWI colleges. So from your statement, black people dont graduate High School nor do we attend College..............

No racism from me. You've just been conditioned by your culture to think that everything a white man says is racist. We will not have progress until certain white and black people stop seeing white and black and start seeing the person. We won't have progress until people take responsibility for their actions and their futures. Besides, having HBCUs isn't an accurate measure of education investment and I never said blacks don't graduate high school or attend college. I showed the rates of graduation. You lack reading comprehension.


Btw, the graduation rate of Asians signifies that they invest more time, money and energy into education than black people.

BTW, Asians do care more about education than most people in this country. NO excuse from me on this.
Why are you dodging my question. How many Black people work in your department???

[mrklean]

WHY?

Because I don't like lawsuits or unions and I want productivity. Simple really

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BULL SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!